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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
M1k3y Koontz
THE AESIR.
#2021 - 2015-03-05 02:33:37 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

We would burn null to the ground.


You've been trying to burn null for years. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen after this.

You're acting like the kid who feels like a big man because his mommy said he's special.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#2022 - 2015-03-05 02:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
baltec1 wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
It's no longer their problem. They defended their space and the threat fled.


Until he comes back in 5m.

And being a small alliance with a small area of operations, they're all still perfectly within range to come and deter him again...

Picture a wasp in a tiny one bedroom flat.

Now picture it in the Louvre.


That's the difference.


Now picture a garden after you knocked over a beehive.

Very droll.

Now picture it a week later, a few dead bugs but much the same as it was before because the bees went back to their hIve to farm honey.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#2023 - 2015-03-05 02:36:25 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

We would burn null to the ground.

You've been trying to burn null for years. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen after this.
You're acting like the kid who feels like a big man because his mommy said he's special.

Only because we hadn't been handed the tools to really make it easy.

But hey, wait and see is always an option I guess. I'm sure CCP will not be fooled and will just ram it all through.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

M1k3y Koontz
THE AESIR.
#2024 - 2015-03-05 02:36:35 UTC
Geddon Kabaal wrote:
Please CCP make sure to avoid the TrollCeptor

I agree something stupid like this will happen:

Canaris:

Reactor Control Unit II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Entosis link thing


Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router I


or


Trolletto


Capacitor Power Relay II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

1MN Microwarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II (120km locking Range)

Entosis link Thing 250km

Small Auxillary Thruster II
Snall Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II


10mn variant will be close enough to the structure I can web and kill it with a RLML Rapier.
1mn variant will be far enough away I can blap it with a Muninn or Eagle.

What's the problem here, defenders get to collect 100m killmails.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2025 - 2015-03-05 02:37:29 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

We would burn null to the ground.


You've been trying to burn null for years. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen after this.

You're acting like the kid who feels like a big man because his mommy said he's special.

We haven't done it because it's too much work in Dominion sov, and doing so would place us at considerable risk due to our Cold War metaphor supercaps being out of position to counter any threats.

Having a conquering force consist of a scant 250 maledictions, loosed upon a region like a plague of locusts, removes this risk completely. At that rate, I can personally finance the destruction of all conquerable nullsec easily, and I'm one of the poorest members of the Goonswarm Federation Economic Cabal.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2026 - 2015-03-05 02:44:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Papa Django wrote:

On a single sov sure, but you cant be everywhere.


Are you kidding? Hell's bells, if frigates can fit these things, they will require even less resources and commitment than an afk cloaker, for vastly greater effect.




I thought AFK cloakers were incapable doing anything.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2027 - 2015-03-05 02:45:14 UTC
Devi Loches wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I've been thinking about these blitzing inty fleets. My first though was about all the tools at our disposal to counter such lol-fit ships, for which there are plenty. However, further pondering has brought to mine the underlying problem that is driving this ridiculous scenario:

It comes down to the battle of effort. Sov. war, over the years, has basically evolved into break-their-will campaigns, where you first exhaust your opponent's will to fight long before you successfully take their space. The problem with the proposed scenario isn't so much inty's RF'ing structures, but that the effort to reclaim those structures is pretty heavy.

We can prevent inties and dessies from fitting the entosis link, but we'll still have the same situation. It is very easy for an organization to segregate their fleet into many, many small parts that simultaneously attack the sov of many structures. While many of these individuals will be countered, many more will also succeed. This is true anytime you have an empire expanding more than a constellation. Every successfully RF'd structure then results in a not insignificant effort by the defenders to reclaim the system or lose it.

The disparity is in the effort to RF the structure vs the effort to reclaim it. That is really what needs to be balanced.

Truth be told, if no one shows up, I believe the structures should revert back to the original owners control naturally. Also, I feel like there needs to be an additional step (i.e. an investment in effort) before the attackers truly make sov vulnerable.

Focusing on link fit inties is really sidetracking us from the above discussion, which is something we should be having.


This is exactly it. The interceptor discussion is just one example of how the underlying issues can be abused. It's too easy for a roaming harassment fleet to inflict serious damage to a system, even one that's lived in.


It is easy to miss the forest, when people keep focusing on the trees. No one should be posting lol-interceptor fits, and should instead be posting the imbalance in the efforts between attacking sov and defending sov.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2028 - 2015-03-05 02:46:16 UTC
Querns wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

We would burn null to the ground.


You've been trying to burn null for years. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen after this.

You're acting like the kid who feels like a big man because his mommy said he's special.

We haven't done it because it's too much work in Dominion sov, and doing so would place us at considerable risk due to our Cold War metaphor supercaps being out of position to counter any threats.

Having a conquering force consist of a scant 250 maledictions, loosed upon a region like a plague of locusts, removes this risk completely. At that rate, I can personally finance the destruction of all conquerable nullsec easily, and I'm one of the poorest members of the Goonswarm Federation Economic Cabal.


And you think you're the only person/alliance with that kind of money? That's cute Lol

Get off your high horse mate. Before you fall and hurt yourself.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#2029 - 2015-03-05 02:46:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
It's no longer their problem. They defended their space and the threat fled.


Until he comes back in 5m.

And being a small alliance with a small area of operations, they're all still perfectly within range to come and deter him again...

Picture a wasp in a tiny one bedroom flat.

Now picture it in the Louvre.


That's the difference.


Now picture a garden after you knocked over a beehive.



I'm kinda going with a cage full of monkeys with diarrhea flinging crap around. None of them are really sure why they are doing it but it smells different and makes a nice mess to roll around in.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2030 - 2015-03-05 02:49:08 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Papa Django wrote:

On a single sov sure, but you cant be everywhere.


Are you kidding? Hell's bells, if frigates can fit these things, they will require even less resources and commitment than an afk cloaker, for vastly greater effect.




I thought AFK cloakers were incapable doing anything.


You're right.

This can actually do something besides give renters the badfeelz.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2031 - 2015-03-05 02:49:44 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Querns wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

We would burn null to the ground.


You've been trying to burn null for years. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen after this.

You're acting like the kid who feels like a big man because his mommy said he's special.

We haven't done it because it's too much work in Dominion sov, and doing so would place us at considerable risk due to our Cold War metaphor supercaps being out of position to counter any threats.

Having a conquering force consist of a scant 250 maledictions, loosed upon a region like a plague of locusts, removes this risk completely. At that rate, I can personally finance the destruction of all conquerable nullsec easily, and I'm one of the poorest members of the Goonswarm Federation Economic Cabal.


And you think you're the only person/alliance with that kind of money? That's cute Lol

Get off your high horse mate. Before you fall and hurt yourself.

Considering that I described myself as among the poorest of the Cabal, I fail to see where I asserted any of that.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2032 - 2015-03-05 02:51:17 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Quote:
and the Industrial Index is obtained by mining in the system.

So considering the new importance of maxing defense bonuses from occupancy, how is mining for a high industrial index better than grinding structures? If I wanted to shoot rocks, I could have stayed in high-sec. At least tie the industrial index to industry maybe? Probably in the form of building/producing stuff? Maybe even consider planetary industry.


Yes to all those options! Though someone is no doibt glong to game the system by running hundreds of jons to build stuff, then reprocess it and build more stuff, just to keep the index high.

One option is, of course, to recruit miners. You know, those people you laugh at and like to throw stones at in hisec.
Rain6637
NulzSec
#2033 - 2015-03-05 02:51:24 UTC
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#2034 - 2015-03-05 02:51:25 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Querns wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

We would burn null to the ground.


You've been trying to burn null for years. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen after this.

You're acting like the kid who feels like a big man because his mommy said he's special.

We haven't done it because it's too much work in Dominion sov, and doing so would place us at considerable risk due to our Cold War metaphor supercaps being out of position to counter any threats.

Having a conquering force consist of a scant 250 maledictions, loosed upon a region like a plague of locusts, removes this risk completely. At that rate, I can personally finance the destruction of all conquerable nullsec easily, and I'm one of the poorest members of the Goonswarm Federation Economic Cabal.


And you think you're the only person/alliance with that kind of money? That's cute Lol

Get off your high horse mate. Before you fall and hurt yourself.

More like massadeath of moa will drag us off the horse and end us, right?

I know, we all have our little large* fantasies.


*It's a reference to blue donuts making one fat

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2035 - 2015-03-05 02:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Papa Django wrote:

On a single sov sure, but you cant be everywhere.


Are you kidding? Hell's bells, if frigates can fit these things, they will require even less resources and commitment than an afk cloaker, for vastly greater effect.




I thought AFK cloakers were incapable doing anything.


You're right.

This can actually do something besides give renters the badfeelz.



Considering the stagnation of the game that may well be the much needed effect.

It's time they HTFU. People would actually be playing the game.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#2036 - 2015-03-05 02:53:19 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Quote:
and the Industrial Index is obtained by mining in the system.

So considering the new importance of maxing defense bonuses from occupancy, how is mining for a high industrial index better than grinding structures? If I wanted to shoot rocks, I could have stayed in high-sec. At least tie the industrial index to industry maybe? Probably in the form of building/producing stuff? Maybe even consider planetary industry.


Yes to all those options! Though someone is no doibt glong to game the system by running hundreds of jons to build stuff, then reprocess it and build more stuff, just to keep the index high.

One option is, of course, to recruit miners. You know, those people you laugh at and like to throw stones at in hisec.

Defense is not the way to go here. Well I guess the miners can all use procurers and defend the control nodes but... well they're not the highsec miners you're looking for, are they

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#2037 - 2015-03-05 02:54:31 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Papa Django wrote:

On a single sov sure, but you cant be everywhere.


Are you kidding? Hell's bells, if frigates can fit these things, they will require even less resources and commitment than an afk cloaker, for vastly greater effect.




I thought AFK cloakers were incapable doing anything.


You're right.

This can actually do something besides give renters the badfeelz.



Considering the stagnation of the game that may well be the much needed effect.

It's time they HTFU.

Yeah like with jump fatigue, it really shook things up.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

M1k3y Koontz
THE AESIR.
#2038 - 2015-03-05 02:54:53 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The problem with the Entosis trolling isn't that it cannot be countered. It can. The famous "trollceptor" can all be countered by a Rifter with a T1 Entosis link orbiting the structure at 5 km, freezing the timer.

The problem is that countering Entosis trolling is so boring gameplay that you'll wish you'd still be grinding stations in Drakes. Either a mobile group needs to run up and down in the region whacking moles, or every system needs to have guards who just do nothing (or mine/rat at the keyboard) for 4 hours and respond to the ping. If they fail, everyone yell at them because 2 days later 10 nodes needs to be captured. If they win every time, they spent 4 hours of their lives at the keyboard with a handful of trivial killmails.

Again: 4 hours of focused gameplay and practically no result. At least you could watch TV between reloads with the Drake.

The attacker should commit something worth killing, so the defenders - if did their job well - go home with a nice killboard.


Gelvon, when have you ever ground stations in a drake?

Counter-lasering a structure is vastly superior to HP grinds because there's no longer an inherent number advantage, number requirement, nor supercapital mandate just to play the game.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#2039 - 2015-03-05 02:56:30 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The problem with the Entosis trolling isn't that it cannot be countered. It can. The famous "trollceptor" can all be countered by a Rifter with a T1 Entosis link orbiting the structure at 5 km, freezing the timer.

The problem is that countering Entosis trolling is so boring gameplay that you'll wish you'd still be grinding stations in Drakes. Either a mobile group needs to run up and down in the region whacking moles, or every system needs to have guards who just do nothing (or mine/rat at the keyboard) for 4 hours and respond to the ping. If they fail, everyone yell at them because 2 days later 10 nodes needs to be captured. If they win every time, they spent 4 hours of their lives at the keyboard with a handful of trivial killmails.

Again: 4 hours of focused gameplay and practically no result. At least you could watch TV between reloads with the Drake.

The attacker should commit something worth killing, so the defenders - if did their job well - go home with a nice killboard.


Gelvon, when have you ever ground stations in a drake?

Counter-lasering a structure is vastly superior to HP grinds because there's no longer an inherent number advantage, number requirement, nor supercapital mandate just to play the game.

Plus, go the limit please.

Ishtars and other drone-type ships (and of course laser ones) don't reload.


(Of course I do also like the bombless bomber that was supposed to end us, but heh)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2040 - 2015-03-05 03:01:12 UTC
I bet ccp are comparing post density and speed to other mega threads to statistically come to a conclusion that has little to do with anything posted here.