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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Leisha Miranen
Doomheim
#881 - 2015-03-04 00:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Leisha Miranen
Sieonigh wrote:

firstly its meant to break the coalition gameplay

secondly:
5 or 2 min + (notification of attack) 10 - 40 min + 2 days RF + time to complete command node contest + 2 day free port
then its capture-able.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66967/1/sovflow.jpg

blue flow graph, learn to read


#1) Who wants coalitions gone? I like coalitions, personally. I've never seen anyone whining that coalitions are the issue.

#2) This "entosis" module or whatever tf it is should not be usable with any ship. Why don't I just fit up 50 atrons all with one and go RF random stuff just for the lolz? It will be chaos, think about this.

#3) The 2 day freeport is insane. It means the attackers can use the station to store ships in a hostile system in which they should have no foothold.

#4) Death to supers.

#5) It used to take 40 minutes to RF a structure, and that was fine - it took a gang of 30 people to do so. However having one entosis module able to grind a structure with ANY SHIP in 40 mins? It means 5-10 people can grind a system into RF themselves because they can all hit a different structure (no bonuses to having more than one module on the same structure).

It seems to be that it would make a lot more sense if entosis modules could only be fit to capitals. Then you would a) have to have capitals to own, maintain, or take sov, b) have to field your capitals in order to take sov, and c) prevent random small gangs of 5-10 people from being able to Reinforce a whole system by themselves in sub-60 minutes.
Align Planet1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#882 - 2015-03-04 00:05:04 UTC
Forget renting. Extortion is where it's at now.

"Small Group" sets up shop. Reavers, PL, BL, NPC Dwellers (pick one, or more than one) extract bribes from "Small Group" to not reinforce their **** every day, forever.

Sounds fun.
Siobhan MacLeary
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#883 - 2015-03-04 00:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Siobhan MacLeary
Wheee, balkanized New Eden will be a thing. I look forward to daytripping out of nullsec connections in wormhole space to **** with sov structures.

E: also, people bitching about being able to fit up a frigate with an Entosis Link and go troll sovholders - THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!

Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave

Stalker ofeveryone
Doomheim
#884 - 2015-03-04 00:08:08 UTC
This thread is saltier than the black sea. I'm loving the tears and rage.
Hairpins Blueprint
Perkone
Caldari State
#885 - 2015-03-04 00:08:30 UTC
Cr Turist wrote:
Wait better question. if no more timers then whats the incentive to fight at all?

not fighting to save a system. not fighting to save a station. whats the point?

i really dont get it maybe im missing something.



IF the strucrure is reinforced, and the event starts, it rolls until it's done.

it mean if no one will do anu thing, system can stay with events open for years
Rain6637
NulzSec
#886 - 2015-03-04 00:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Anthar Thebess
#887 - 2015-03-04 00:10:32 UTC
Can we get more gate connections between the regions into the NPC space.
Already raised few times :
1. Venal/ Stain to some low sec.
2. Outskirt constellations like : http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Paragon_Soul/D9DM-O to some random system in Stain ( while doing similar stuff in all around eve. )

Point number 1 will allow more new comers willing to take some space for them.
Point number 2 will allow them to have access to more space.

I love loosing the need of mindless grind.
All my dreads are happy :) , my wife also, no more 'honey last siege, i know that it is 3 AM'

Don't brake the idea and force pilots to use some advanced ships for those sov capture modules, but mounting them on something smaller than a cruiser should also be prohibited.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#888 - 2015-03-04 00:11:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Proton Stars wrote:
Also why on earth are fcon defending this? They'll be wiped off the map quicker than a *** stain in a nudey booth

we'll still be here. Most likely a lot smaller space, but assuming systems are changed to support more most of us can and will stick it.

It gets pretty boring up here in branch to be honest. Might be nice to see some groups come and muscle in.

Only way I see us folding is if goons decide to reset everyone and put their sights on the north.
Lister Vindaloo
5 Tons of Flax
#889 - 2015-03-04 00:12:30 UTC
Just to re-iterate, Prime Time is the worst, most divisive idea I've ever seen, the only thing AU TZ players had to offer corps was our ability to act out of TZ, now we have been relegated to logistics and ratting, this is disgraceful.

This entire prime time system is only going to segregate people, there is no way to make a declared 'safe/vulnerable' time work, just add a greater level of randomness to when the timers will end and allow the attacker/defenders to figure out the best way to deal with the timers.

If you go ahead with this prime time nonsense, can AU TZ have jove space so we can have our own little bit of sov space to fight over?
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#890 - 2015-03-04 00:14:18 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
and so begins the subbing of accounts.. month to month screw paying you guys months upfront.. EVER AGAIN.
take your plex and stick it.

Why dont you like the changes?

cause ccp cant even figure out why folks play this game. look at it's history they fail at player retention. it may be harsh and its true. a lot of us right now are pissed off to the fullest. we have cap pilots now sitting in huge paperweights (haha bet you wish you could dock now right).. yet ccp cant understand why folks refuse to pay alittle longer..

plus I am sick of those surveys they send out, its pretty blatant they don't pay attention to it..just like feedback threads.. oops did I say that.. no fawks given.

this whole change would be better suited for Low-Sec and not Null-sec cause its understandable the scope of fixing null is so difficult that they CCP do not want to spend any further time dealing with it.

now i'll wait and give them pennies instead of full dollars just incase they cant figure out why im no longer biting at their carrot they love to dangle.

have you tried having fun
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#891 - 2015-03-04 00:15:50 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Are the HP and Anchor/Online times for IHUBs and TCU's being adjusted?


There no HP any more mate, you don't shoot those things any more :D


I don't think you have it right Hairpins.

Once ONLINED you don't shoot these anymore. However, if you successfully win a contest over an enemy's TCU/IHUB, their TCU/IHUB EXPLODES. You then have to anchor and online your OWN TCU/IHUB.

In the current system:
It takes 1 Hour to anchor, and 1 Hour to ONLINE an IHUB.
It takes 5 Minutes to anchor, and 8 HOURS to ONLINE a TCU.

During these anchoring and online times, the structures are vulnerable to attack. However, they also have ~20m EHP and ~200m EHP for the TCU and IHUB, respectively.

I'm asking for clarification.... does it still take as long to anchor and online these? Does it still take as much firepower to destroy them? Are they vulnerable while anchoring and onlining (if not, there is a race to see who anchors the first IHUB/TCU once the old IHUB/TCU is destroyed).
Barbaydos
Tactically Challenged
Tactical Supremacy
#892 - 2015-03-04 00:16:04 UTC
instead of having the 4 hour window of doom that alliance can set themselves i have an idea so that more timezones can actually play the sov game.

in a target system you have 2 different types of anomalies we'll call them large and small for lack of a better name.

there are 2 large and 6 small anomalies.

within the anomaly there is a structure that you have to put your entosis link on, for small anoms it takes 5 mins to activate and 15 for the large anom.

to make a system vulnerable you have to activate 2 large or 6 small anoms or a combination of the 2 - total time wise it takes 30mins without interruption to make a system vulnerable.

the small anoms despawn every 3 hours and the large every 6 hours - this is to prevent people making bookmarks that would carry over for several days.

the idea of this is to 1) allow fighting for sov in all timezones 2) still allow small groups of players to attack sov

once a structure is reinforced then it comes out within that 4 hour primetime that is set by the alliance

i would also maybe insert a mechanic that allows the attacker to effect the timer for the structure once it is reinforced to make it better for the attacker.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#893 - 2015-03-04 00:18:36 UTC
Barbaydos wrote:
i would also maybe insert a mechanic that allows the attacker to effect the timer for the structure once it is reinforced to make it better for the attacker.

Didn't like the rest of your idea - but allowing the attacker to choose their preferred timer (within the primetime of the defending alliance) makes sense....

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Hairpins Blueprint
Perkone
Caldari State
#894 - 2015-03-04 00:20:25 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Proton Stars wrote:
Also why on earth are fcon defending this? They'll be wiped off the map quicker than a *** stain in a nudey booth

we'll still be here. Most likely a lot smaller space, but assuming systems are changed to support more most of us can and will stick it.

It gets pretty boring up here in branch to be honest. Might be nice to see some groups come and muscle in.

Only way I see us folding is if goons decide to reset everyone and put their sights on the north.



True : 3 i hope it will tranform FCON and other bear alliances into some thing better, with more pvp focus.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#895 - 2015-03-04 00:21:17 UTC
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Escuro wrote:
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Escuro wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.

tell me how. Activating the link will prohibit you from cloaking, warping etc. You can fit an inty to lock up to 120-130km. This can be countered with a LOT of stuff. Also, you can just use your own link and don't bother at all.

Actually you can get a crow to lock up to 175k with implants and passive boost, and have a MWD. have not checked with links yet but most certainly about 220-230k

i'd like to see the cap consumption of the "link" first before discussing it actually. if it will eat out your cap - any other inty will counter it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgv1g1zdlkssp59/Sov%20Grind%20Ceptor.PNG?dl=0
And that is without proper links, the SC is the ceptor being in a fleet with its self.
this was a 20 sec build i am sure someone can come up with something better if they spend time on it
It even has the majority of its fittings left to fit the module as well


Amateur.

10MN MWD Confessor. 11km/s without links or implants.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#896 - 2015-03-04 00:21:59 UTC
Barbaydos wrote:
instead of having the 4 hour window of doom that alliance can set themselves i have an idea so that more timezones can actually play the sov game.

in a target system you have 2 different types of anomalies we'll call them large and small for lack of a better name.

there are 2 large and 6 small anomalies.

within the anomaly there is a structure that you have to put your entosis link on, for small anoms it takes 5 mins to activate and 15 for the large anom.

to make a system vulnerable you have to activate 2 large or 6 small anoms or a combination of the 2 - total time wise it takes 30mins without interruption to make a system vulnerable.

the small anoms despawn every 3 hours and the large every 6 hours - this is to prevent people making bookmarks that would carry over for several days.

the idea of this is to 1) allow fighting for sov in all timezones 2) still allow small groups of players to attack sov

once a structure is reinforced then it comes out within that 4 hour primetime that is set by the alliance

i would also maybe insert a mechanic that allows the attacker to effect the timer for the structure once it is reinforced to make it better for the attacker.


I much prefer to have a larger window of vulnerability based on system activity:

A heavily used system should have a small (4hr) window of vulnerability.
An unused system should have a large (12hr) window of vulnerability.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#897 - 2015-03-04 00:22:09 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Amateur.

10MN MWD Confessor. 11km/s without links or implants.

Still countered by an atron at 0....geez I have to type this every 10 minutes

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Candente
Navy Veteran Club
#898 - 2015-03-04 00:22:19 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:


Quote:
In the new Sovereignty system, each alliance will designate a four hour window through a new option available in the Corporation Management window to certain members of the alliance executor corp. This period will represent the alliance’s declared prime time,

I assume the feedback so far makes it clear that (most) players think Prime Time is a bad idea. Please axe this. If you think about it for a moment, you might realize that locking out a significant portion of the playerbase from partaking in defensive ops for their alliances is a bad move, because you're denying them content. And forcing players into timezone based alliances would be silly, too.


I think most "players" (defined as those who replied in this thread) knew the goal of these change is to give power to local alliances, so the Prime Time would not be a bad idea. Note also the 4 ours of Prime Time can be non-consecutive, which means you can set 2 hours in US and 2 hours of EU, etc.

Quote:
Also I don't see how a smaller alliance could have a chance to stand against a larger alliance within the new system. It seems it would be possible to just hellcamp the defender with a fleet of mains, have a two or three groups in fast ships ready to deal with stragglers, while using cheap throwaway alts in (relatively) cheap ships to zip around and reinforce ALL sov structures of the defending alliance in one sweep.


I don't think the goal was ever to make small alliances equally powerful to the large alliance in term of ability to occupy and defend a system. The goal is to make it increasingly hard to hold large number of systems without local occupants and defenders, so large entities will have to prioritize their holdings, which then causes the smaller alliances to strike out to hold those less desirable systems.
Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#899 - 2015-03-04 00:24:49 UTC
I'm not a 100+ mil sp player, but if I was id be pissed.
Brother Mercury
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#900 - 2015-03-04 00:25:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
This patch makes it nearly worthless (save for POS BASH) to log in supers or dreads. j

Let's see what some fun scenarios will happen if you attempt to use supercaps and capitals in this new sov:

Scenario 1:

Attacker comes and starts entosis link on structure. Want to use your caps to defend against the initial entosis link? Nope, never-mind too slow, you'll never be able to get there in the minutes it takes to reinforce, and even if you do get there in time and your alliance drops a cap fleet on grid near the attacker's target structure -- JUST KIDDING -- the attackers were entosis linking a bait structure, the structure they really wanted to reinforce was in another constellation. Have fun trying to come and stop this one with your caps *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. and half your fleet (read: supers and titans) can't gate jump. Congratulations you've just wasted an hour of your life moving a capital fleet and then waiting for space aids to go away.

Scenario 2:

Your structure is reinforced and it is now in the "command node" part of the new sov mechanics. Your alliance has prepared though and has two moderate size sub-cap fleets in addition to a good size supercap/cap fleet to help capture the nodes. Your FC finds the first node first and your subcap fleet gets on grid only to find the attackers have arrived first. It's a close fight so your alliance calls for 1/2 the capital fleet to jump in. As soon as the enemy sees the capitals land, they turn tail with minimal loses and head to the next command node two jumps away. Your capital ships *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. and your supercaps can't jump gates, but you have to send your sub-caps regardless or you'll lose the next node. Now your supercap/capital fleet is sitting, without subcap support, in the first command node essentially doing nothing while they wait for their space aids to go away.

It's OK your FC says: we have more capitals and another subcap group. Great! So your fleet gets to the next node but the attackers have large numbers so you are forced again to drop the rest of your capitals/supercaps to guarantee that you'll hold the command node. When the enemy attackers see your second capital fleet land, they again immediately "LOL" in local and go to the next node with their entire force.

Now your alliance has two split capital groups with no or little subcap support (because you need to compete for the other nodes) sitting in space with their space aids. You might say: "so what, your now have won a whopping 2 combat nodes man!" But, meanwhile the attackers are loling around the constellation going to the next node with all their forces still intact and with no capitals (still potentially in reserve) and don't give a flying f*ck about your two capital groups because there are EIGHT more nodes to take and they can just LOL out and peace if you bring your big guns.


You can take the fundamentals of these scenarios and slightly change them, but the impacts on supercap and capital use is the same: what is the point of using supercaps or dreads? If there are always at least 10 command nodes (with the potential of there being many more) why even bother? What logical attacker or defender would even bother trying to use supercaps to defend 1 or 2 nodes when there's 8 more to mess with and dropping your supercaps on any 1 or 2 nodes would leave them in an exposed postion.

I dont know how to fix it but there NEEDS to be a valid reason/opportunities to use supercaps and dreads and titans.