Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Recons not on D-scan? So what you're saying is that you want wormhole space to be a bloodbath for a week and then completely dead? Or, is this a way to increase scout subs after banning isoboxer?

Solo pvping and a lot of small gang pvping which you do not understand as an "elite" high sec PVPer is about going out solo and looking for good fights. That is you fighting against the odds against gangs that are more numerous. basically you look for good challenging fights. Most of the time you are not hunting ratters per se but that is not unheard of, your just putting yourself in space and giving people the opportunity to fight you. Recon's do not have the dps to solo most combat ships.

What they do have the ability to do is ruin good fights, they ruin small gang and solo fights because they are a massive force multiplier and convey an overwhelming advantage to the side who possesses them. Ranged neuts kill active tanks, neutralise guns that use cap and force kiting ships to stay outside of tackle range. Ranged tp's aid damage application at a distance and in close. Ranged webs ensure that a gang applies it's full dps to you, prevent kiting altogether and prevent you from withdrawing if something goes wrong. And ranged tackle prevent's withdrawal in the same way. Ranged damps and ewar and tracking disruption ensure you cannot even fight back as someone kills you.

And the ability not to assess a fight for this or see it coming is massive buff to gate camps and plex campers and other bads who you can end up fighting. At the moment if I see a recon or T3 decloak there is a six or so second delay in which I have to react to that change. That allows me to react to the presence of the recon, I can lock it back and put drones on it, I can bail from the fight, I can change my positioning and burn towards it etc to put me in a better position to counter it, or I can burn outside of it's effective range. Covert ops recons have an excellent bonus and a significant disadvantage for holding that bonus, they get a locking timer and a weaker tank. In a small gang I can call a target switch to the recon and try to kill it due to it's weaker tank before it has a deleterious effect on the fight.

Combat recons don't have a d-scan presence, as proposed, so there is no locking timer. so they hit the grid and two to three seconds after landing the fight is over. You can't see them coming and you can't react to their presence in time for it to do you any good, you can't cap them out because they now have better cap and you can't kill them before they've ruined the fight because they have HAC grade tanks. There is no drawback to these ships are proposed and no counter to them solo, in small gang, you can gimp your dps by bringing a Keres which might allow you to neutralize one enemy recon because recons have crazy locking ranges, how then do you also counter the army of T1 logi or T2 logi that gets brought into these fights if your paper thin Keres is busy with both staying alive and keeping a recon out of the fight? It's extremely difficult to break logi with dps, unless your all flying heavier ships and even then it can be all but impossible, some of the people we fight or have tried to fight bring more logi ships to the grid than we have dps ships in our gangs. They bring enough reps to rep the damage output of a gang five or more times our size.

I realize that as an "elite" high sec PVPer you have a massive hard on for this change, because it would allow you to go out and gank carebears in high sec with massive impunity, they will not see you coming until your recon lands on grid. At which point they are dead, you like it because you enjoy a dull unchallenging style of PVP in which you almost always win or will win.

The rest of us want challenging PVP but we don't want to die at every turn to a plague of unbalanced recons that we cannot see coming.

curse and lachesis still 3/4 lowslots instead of 5/6, d-scan immunity still only justified on the basis that covops cloaks are balanced, even though they aren't, and game-breaking tackle range bonuses still in.

this is actually more disappointing than +0.1 inertia.

All thing in eve need drawback, fast locking undetectable recon is no way, or solo and small gang will just never fight outside of novice and small plex, good luck to hunt people here with your recon...




Learn basic gameplay mechanic before posting perhaps ?

I think combat recons should be visible on d-scan during first 5 seconds after entering a system. Similar to cloaky ships.
EDIT: obviously after the "gate" cloak is off.

And meanwhile, the opinions of people who pound their fist on the table screaming about how d-scan should be perfect so they never have to use scouts... are worthless in their entirety.

why are people talking about entire fleets of combat recons? are you guys ********?

it's a discussion, not a vote. that said, rise is still terrible.

TBH were discussing it, CCP are not.

From one of my earlier posts:

No, I'm arguing for this because I actually want to fly these ships. They are cool as hell, and they've been pretty badly unviable for a long damned time now.

Changes that improve them to be useful and viable are a positive. Being off of d-scan is unique, useful, and opens up a whole new dimension of combat in the game.

And I truly don't care if said changes upset your little birdcage.




You first.