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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

First post First post First post
Author
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2021 - 2014-10-08 06:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
Pritovsky Pootis wrote:
*Dons tinfoil hat*

Guys, see the event posts about the "collect sleeper loot for empires and get cool stuff"?

What if, right...hear me out on this...it will sound crazy...

What if, it was to get people into WH space so that CCP can give us a graph showing higher player numbers after the patch, and that by doing so, they are trying to get more people living in WH space because they realised how much they messed up with this change but don't want to admit it? What if they are doing that instead of reverting this change in order to artificially (temporarily) boost WH activity to cover it up?

What if, guys?

*removes tinfoil hat*

Any response yet from CCP? Its been what, a month or two since the last post?


Wanted to write exactly the same. Bet 1 Plex that is exactly the reason for this event.

Bad CCP, really bad ... No even terrible it is.

I will not donate even one of those items and kill anybody I can without exception who I find daytripping these days. Because this event will just cause a very limited short term increase of traffic. Nothing which helps with the overall bad situation. :(
Enthropic
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#2022 - 2014-10-08 06:16:36 UTC
You really think anyone would move in because of this 'event' ? It is the simplest form of lame questing go get x and give it to y, only that exactly four people get something.
The only guys who can win are some market alt who happened to see the post first and bought up the blue tags or someone with access to storage of a large WH alliance. Nobody else in their right mind will throwaway their loot with no chance of getting anything.

If at all, ccp should have at least taken the effort of adding a new item which is not on the market to the sleeper loot table to encourage farming and entering a fair competition.


Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2023 - 2014-10-08 06:59:35 UTC
Come on Lol
It's EvE ... always bet on stupid ;)
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#2024 - 2014-10-09 06:14:31 UTC
Enthropic wrote:
You really think anyone would move in because of this 'event' ? It is the simplest form of lame questing go get x and give it to y, only that exactly four people get something.
The only guys who can win are some market alt who happened to see the post first and bought up the blue tags or someone with access to storage of a large WH alliance. Nobody else in their right mind will throwaway their loot with no chance of getting anything.

If at all, ccp should have at least taken the effort of adding a new item which is not on the market to the sleeper loot table to encourage farming and entering a fair competition.




Remember way, way back for the Gallente Arch. Grinded our ass off as a corp and we got rewarded for it. If they wanted a serious event, they need to make something you can rally a mass of players behind. Something that give players an incentive to take part.

This one can be easy had by "random empire trader" with big enough wallet. A player not ever set foot in wspace at all.


Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2025 - 2014-10-10 03:32:40 UTC
Pritovsky Pootis wrote:
*Dons tinfoil hat*

Guys, see the event posts about the "collect sleeper loot for empires and get cool stuff"?

What if, right...hear me out on this...it will sound crazy...

What if, it was to get people into WH space so that CCP can give us a graph showing higher player numbers after the patch, and that by doing so, they are trying to get more people living in WH space because they realised how much they messed up with this change but don't want to admit it? What if they are doing that instead of reverting this change in order to artificially (temporarily) boost WH activity to cover it up?

What if, guys?

*removes tinfoil hat*

Any response yet from CCP? Its been what, a month or two since the last post?


Awkward silence from CCP tells me it's true.
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#2026 - 2014-10-14 16:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rei Moon
Small guy review:
5/10
Meh
Well first of all lemme formally apologize for some ranting way back in the first days, I'm sorry guys, that wasn't a fitting attitude for a true wormholer. More class! Now the juice.
' less inhabitants, few people moved out, even fewer moved in - based out of my derrière, because no actual numbers. Also it feels like a natural tendency in wspace as opposed to a direct consequence of the feature.
' more time wasted rolling - not a big issue actually, but a bit annoying.
' more risky - I'd say it doesn't fully work as intended tho, there's a bit more risk in rolling, I fail to see that much of an improvement in engagement possibilities.
' luck factor - I partially agree with epicurus ataraxia in this one. Not that impactful pragmatically speaking, nevertheless an awful ideological change in devs vision.
' a pain in the buttowsky fun-wise? Let's see. Too early to be sure.
Suggested improvements: Fozzie could think of a way of allowing the 3 cap yolo of old. Meaning, keep this change for the next four months, but enable Nid+2Nag swag jump within close range.
Thoughts?

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"

Enthropic
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#2027 - 2014-10-14 21:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Enthropic
One can like the changes or not, it comes down to personal preference. I hate them, and I said why in multiple posts, but who cares. Im just one of many customers, its not about me.

What I however fail to understand is this complete lack of reply by CCP in response to our 100 pages of feedback.

How hard can it be for a professional game developer to come up with a few stats, like ship-, pod- and sleeper kills in w-space, towers anchored and characters logged in per day in w-space.

plot this for a few months before hyperion to show whether there is (or is not) any decline and compare this to the time after Hyperion. I know the data should be collected over a longer period of time, but why not giving us some data now? Whats the harm?

If such data shows that Hyperion did not make it worse until now, then probably a lot of people like me would shut up and agree to disagree with Fozzie. It would have settled the issue without any bad blood.

I know Im not the only one who stopped caring tbh, now call me a whiner if you must
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#2028 - 2014-10-15 14:18:37 UTC
I would bet this would have a totally different outcome if we argued that our wh jump freighter stuff would be crippled.

So......


Hey, CCP this mass/range change just screwed my JF stuff. Could you please cave in???

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Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#2029 - 2014-10-15 18:08:28 UTC
Well I wandered off for a bit. Read 392 of the 404 pages of the nullsec threadnaught and then 60-whatever pages of the update thread. Before that I even read some of Manny's suggestion thread which is similar to the actual changes we are getting. The tears made me feel a little better, but what I really gained was perspective. I now understand how the WH changes are related to the null changes and the direction they want the game to go in. Interestingly enough, the changes make life both harder and easier on a solo player like me.

Base level risk is increased. WH's are now more like a series of connected roads than the dark alleys they used to be. Low-sec and null will be more treacherous with capital ships being able to roam and becoming the top dogs over BS's and T3's in those arenas. In exchange for that, risk becomes more regional. Hot-drops don't happen from as far away, reducing your chances of being a target. In WH's there isn't really a risk decrease but the trade off is that you may see more traffic from outside allowing for more targets.

Before Greyscale backed off the full JF adjustment I was psyched about the market opportunities the changes would bring. I'm still psyched, it's just going to take longer to get to a point where enough changes are made to bring about real opportunities. Originally I was excited about living in a WH simply for the challenge. Now I'm excited about the prospect of bringing compressed ore to market in remote areas of space. And that could lead to other strategies that would make living in a WH fun and profitable.

Long term I wonder if eventually the more remote areas of null will be more empty due to logistic difficulties. Would that allow for me to drop out of a WH, setup a POS and live there for a bit? Ducking back down a WH in a month or so to avoid attention? Would it be worth it under whatever sov system we have by then to hide out there without sov? Who knows, it's all just ideas in my head right now.

If nothing else I'm excited by the potential for an industrial revolution in EVE. I've never been particularly savvy at making ISK, and have dabbled in many of the options, drawing from all but mastering none. Change can bring opportunity, I'm trying to focus on identifying where it can benefit me since there are so many changes happening right now. I'm hoping to be up and running in a WH again in the next few weeks. Something always seems to come up to delay it, but eventually you have to just say screw it and go in with whatever you have, ready or not!

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Dalron
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#2030 - 2014-10-16 05:08:35 UTC
Another tactic from CCP to try to increase wormhole traffic since they wont admit that this change screwed up WH space completely. Adding the improved nullsec data/relic sites into C1-C3 wormhole space to try to draw explorers into wormholes.

Cmon CCP all we want is some hard facts, you did it with burner missions and other changes, lets have it for this.

From personal experience I'm getting a lot less incoming wormholes into my space but due to these changes and frig wormholes I'm still not able to get anything done.
Pritovsky Pootis
Eschelon Directive
Quantum Inquisition
#2031 - 2014-10-16 13:23:29 UTC
Would it be so hard to just have SOME acknowledgement? Its been what, a month and a half since the last dev post?
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2032 - 2014-10-17 12:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
Dalron wrote:
Another tactic from CCP to try to increase wormhole traffic since they wont admit that this change screwed up WH space completely. Adding the improved nullsec data/relic sites into C1-C3 wormhole space to try to draw explorers into wormholes.


Which will just lead to slightly more CovertOps frigates entering wormhole Systems from K-Space. If they would at least add sleepers in this site as well, so we have something to fight (sleepers or the Explorer in battleships, but noooo. I personally don't care much about this patch as it doesn't really add content or will lead to bigger Population.
Explorers will come more often to wormholes now for sure, but they will just scan (block the System for more interesting Targets, which will just hide or logoff because they are afraid of being attacked), do the site and leave. Ok, there will be some more exploded frigates, but that's it. No interesting fights, just easy and cheap targets or disturbing Scanners.

Another fact could be, that high-class wormholers now come more often to small class wormholes looking for these sites, meaning again, that the smaller ones who can not defend themselves are suffering mainly from this patch. More entering wormholes, etc.

I am again disappointed as CCP took some action, but like Hyperion it's not improving wormhole overall from my Point of view, but mainly punishing solo to small-scale wormhole inhabitants, especially in the low class wormholes, who are already boring empty. Seldomly have a fight without going a very Long chain or today mostly directly into lowsec or 0.0. If I want to do data and relic Sites I can choose one of the many 0.0 exits in our nearly daily long, long wormhole chains. Roll
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2033 - 2014-10-20 14:49:52 UTC
This change sure ain't helping activity levels (not that I can talk too much at the moment) - most people logged off to play other games (LoL :|) last night as there wasn't much to do with another entity active in our static with 4x our online numbers and any attempt to collapse the wh would have been pretty much suicide.
Andre Coeurl
Embers Children
#2034 - 2014-10-20 15:33:12 UTC
After a while, it's clear how this change puts small corps in a very unsustainable situation because it's impossible to roll WHs with any reasonable degree of safety, so not only there's very little chance they'll run capital escalations anymore, but they'll also be unable to collapse for the purpose of finding new targets for PVP if the available chain doesn't provide anything.

This means LESS CONTENT for everyone, not just for the corp affected, but also for the bigger corps who still can chain-collapse... they simply won't find as many corps running capital escalations as before.
On the other hand, bigger corps are still able to collapse at will having the bigger fleets, and therefore they're in the position to control access and siege systems if they want.

Why then, just make WHs utterly uncollapsable, that would level the ground completely at least, so WH space will becoem just an appendix of null... that would be more coherent, although still seriously wrong.

Anyway, if CCP just wants to reduce the number of people and the amount of content generated in WH space, this is for sure the best way.
It will end with a further loss in subscriptions, but, hey, they don't care about those right?
Of course this is quite the opposite of what Fozzie said was his intent, so he's either a fool or a liar... unless of course we are all missing something, but as there's still NO response about this from Fozzie or any CCP, we should probably assume the previous options are the right ones
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#2035 - 2014-10-21 03:46:09 UTC
Andre Coeurl wrote:
After a while, it's clear how this change puts small corps in a very unsustainable situation because it's impossible to roll WHs with any reasonable degree of safety, so not only there's very little chance they'll run capital escalations anymore, but they'll also be unable to collapse for the purpose of finding new targets for PVP if the available chain doesn't provide anything.

This means LESS CONTENT for everyone, not just for the corp affected, but also for the bigger corps who still can chain-collapse... they simply won't find as many corps running capital escalations as before.
On the other hand, bigger corps are still able to collapse at will having the bigger fleets, and therefore they're in the position to control access and siege systems if they want.

Why then, just make WHs utterly uncollapsable, that would level the ground completely at least, so WH space will becoem just an appendix of null... that would be more coherent, although still seriously wrong.

Anyway, if CCP just wants to reduce the number of people and the amount of content generated in WH space, this is for sure the best way.
It will end with a further loss in subscriptions, but, hey, they don't care about those right?
Of course this is quite the opposite of what Fozzie said was his intent, so he's either a fool or a liar... unless of course we are all missing something, but as there's still NO response about this from Fozzie or any CCP, we should probably assume the previous options are the right ones


If wormholes were populated with active people most of what you said would be true. But let's call it like it is. 19 times out of 20 your static is a ghost town and this terrible mechanic doesn't effect anything. It's only that 1 time out of 20 that grinds content to a screeching halt.
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#2036 - 2014-10-21 03:52:31 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I would bet this would have a totally different outcome if we argued that our wh jump freighter stuff would be crippled.

So......


Hey, CCP this mass/range change just screwed my JF stuff. Could you please cave in???

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I loled
Pritovsky Pootis
Eschelon Directive
Quantum Inquisition
#2037 - 2014-10-22 00:30:59 UTC
Still no CCP response. Almost 2 months ago was the last one!

To be honest I still cant fathom why its so difficult to even post a "don't worry we're still here!" reply, even if it doesn't show any fancy graphs or anything. At least show us that you are still reading this and are taking on board what we've said here. A reply showing us how we were all wrong with statistics to show for it would be brilliant (although the graphs would probably show the opposite), but I'd be alright with any communication at this point!

Really feels like the devs are playing the "lets ignore it and they will be quiet eventually" card at this point. If that's the case, then I do have to ask what was the point in this thread if you were just going to ignore everything said here without addressing everyone's concerns about this issue. As Corbexx has probably told you a million times, communicate with us already!
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2038 - 2014-10-23 13:45:24 UTC
+1 to wanting CCP to respond.

Enthropic
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#2039 - 2014-10-23 16:16:48 UTC
I waited for a response until a few days ago. We then took down our tower, sold all our crap (therefore you cant have it) and unsubscribed our alts.

gg
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2040 - 2014-10-23 17:55:38 UTC
wow people are still wasting their time in this thread? Shocked

It's staying the way it is guys. Get over it and move on!