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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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Author
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2061 - 2014-11-04 14:10:27 UTC
Dalron wrote:
B0T0 wrote:
CSM9Summer_Minutes end of page 76 wrote:
Corbexx asked what's going on with the wormhole population.
CCP Fozzie said they've been watching it and will continue to do so, but that numbers are pretty balanced in terms of who's leaving, who's arriving, and that kills are pretty stable. The big difference is just that the people leaving are noisier.


Looks like WH space is alive ;)


Hardly. These were taken on 17th-19th September and he probably pulled the stats before that. That was less than 3 weeks after the release of Hyperion. People had not even started moving out then, waiting to see if things were going to get fixed.

CCP should learn that they can make mistakes and ignoring them, and trying other things to 'fix' it (like boosting loot value in C1-C3) just annoys people because it's so transparent.


I'm so thankful for hyperion every single day, because wormholes are damn awesome again and because of boneheads/farmers whining over it :D

Whoever leaves whs for the hyperion changes clearly won't be missed, the risk-averse, the crybabies as well as the API addicted gone, this will be a fabulous winter.
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2062 - 2014-11-04 14:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
King Fu Hostile wrote:
"Lull" isn't true in subcap w-space :)

Also stats show that w-space kills last month were higher than before Hyperion.



Show the stats please. And comparing 2 month is not a trend and some left already before Hyperion. Anyway. Official statistics please.

PS: If that would be the reality without any limitations we defenitely would have seen a blog here linked by fozzie about this ;) So if you refer to the link 2 Posts earlier. This is just ISK, not Kills. If you follow WH Action you know what maybe happened to ADHC in October and maybe as well the damage just by this one extraordinary Event, which had nothing to do with Hyperion? ;) Just saying.
Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2063 - 2014-11-04 15:02:25 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
"Lull" isn't true in subcap w-space :)

Also stats show that w-space kills last month were higher than before Hyperion.



Show the stats please. And comparing 2 month is not a trend and some left already before Hyperion. Anyway. Official statistics please.


You won't get official stats because the stats prove Fozzie screwed the pooch on this one.

For those who disagree: I point you towards CCP's enthusiasm when releasing kill data on Burners.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2064 - 2014-11-05 00:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Whilst the changes are really welcome in pheobe, and will do a great deal to encourage people to stay in lower class wormholes, It does not change the opinion on random jump spawn mechanics in any way, the idea was a bad one, remains a bad one, and will be a toxic memory and a blight (yes in this sense it applies) on wormhole life as long as it exists. It is a running sore that will never heal, amputation is the only solution.

I do not want to focus on this, I do not even want to have to remember it exists, but every time one jumps a hole it is rubbed in one's face like a piece of rotting shark.

Please Fozzie, your recent work and that of your team is a tour de force. Excellent work!
This horrid mechanic does neither the players any good, or your team any credit by continuing to exist.
Thanks for reading (hopefully)

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#2065 - 2014-11-05 07:34:45 UTC
The only lasting effect of that change is that people who don't have the manpower to back up hole-collapsing capitals mostly stopped rolling holes, and by extension stopped living in capital-escalation space.

They had no business living there in the first place so that is totally fine.

And now it is less of a problem than ever before because CCP made low-class a very viable place to live once again. The small-corp isk farmers should just give up on c5 and come back where they belong, into a nice c2 with c4 static.

.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2066 - 2014-11-05 08:17:30 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
The only lasting effect of that change is that people who don't have the manpower to back up hole-collapsing capitals mostly stopped rolling holes, and by extension stopped living in capital-escalation space.

They had no business living there in the first place so that is totally fine.

And now it is less of a problem than ever before because CCP made low-class a very viable place to live once again. The small-corp isk farmers should just give up on c5 and come back where they belong, into a nice c2 with c4 static.

Not going to reopen the whole can of worms again, but 104 pages prior disagree with that.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

King Fu Hostile
Shiva Furnace
#2067 - 2014-11-05 12:04:51 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
"Lull" isn't true in subcap w-space :)

Also stats show that w-space kills last month were higher than before Hyperion.



Show the stats please. And comparing 2 month is not a trend and some left already before Hyperion. Anyway. Official statistics please.

PS: If that would be the reality without any limitations we defenitely would have seen a blog here linked by fozzie about this ;) So if you refer to the link 2 Posts earlier. This is just ISK, not Kills. If you follow WH Action you know what maybe happened to ADHC in October and maybe as well the damage just by this one extraordinary Event, which had nothing to do with Hyperion? ;) Just saying.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=382952&find=unread

Yes, the data is a sampled, limited subset of "w-space", but I regard the entities here as a pretty good sample of the general w-space community, and if anything, it lacks a large number of active corps and alliances that aren't interested in forum metagames or being on this ego list.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
[deaths in] Wormholes are static. Jumps in high, low, and wormholes appear to be stable.
...
CCP Fozzi esaid they've been watching it and will continue to do so, but that numbers are pretty balanced in terms of who's leaving, who's arriving, and that kills are pretty stable. The big difference is just that the people leaving are noisier.


Our alliance's experience support these, wormhole space is active.

Now it's your turn to present your "official statistics" that would support your tinfoilery.
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2068 - 2014-11-05 13:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
I have never said wormhole is not active! It's less active!

At the moment I saw more movements the last 2 weeks, but that has for sure in most cases something to do with Phoebe announcement, which for me is just a confession by Fozzie that Hyperion went not as expected!

King Fu Hostile wrote:
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
"Lull" isn't true in subcap w-space :)

Also stats show that w-space kills last month were higher than before Hyperion.



Show the stats please. And comparing 2 month is not a trend and some left already before Hyperion. Anyway. Official statistics please.

PS: If that would be the reality without any limitations we defenitely would have seen a blog here linked by fozzie about this ;) So if you refer to the link 2 Posts earlier. This is just ISK, not Kills. If you follow WH Action you know what maybe happened to ADHC in October and maybe as well the damage just by this one extraordinary Event, which had nothing to do with Hyperion? ;) Just saying.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=382952&find=unread

Yes, the data is a sampled, limited subset of "w-space", but I regard the entities here as a pretty good sample of the general w-space community, and if anything, it lacks a large number of active corps and alliances that aren't interested in forum metagames or being on this ego list.


Thanks. I take really just a short look on your sample and even there I see more my theory proven than yours.

I doubt you have checked the figures by yourself in Detail. Take a look what happened when Hyperion was announced and finally released.
Take a look on the number of repoting Corps / alliances in October compared to the months in Q2!

Your sample is mainly reflecting Corps / alliances from higher class wormholes as far as I can judge about this and says therefore only little about lower classes.
And I think it's common sense that especially higher class wormholes with bigger Corps / Alliances are not affected much by Hyperion, but especially lower class wormholes and small corps were ... that's why only CCP can give valid data or somebody is doing the work and summarise zkillboard.com Wormhole Kills for 2014 ... that may be a reliable overall wh-source

What I saw rougly from the kill summary list of your link:
- W-Space Kills decreased when Hyperion was announced and finally released, with just one exception, October, where you can Count ADHC eviction as exceptional Event and then it is in line with the months before.
- October 2014 has more counted Corps / Alliances than April, so a deeper breakdown on the Corps with kill history since April may even make the table look worse with regard to ovarall activity
- K-Space Killvalue increased from the Moment Hyperion was announced, which is reflecting what you can read here often in the Forums as well, that some are seeking their PvP outside of W-Space due to lack of activity.
- Not taking into account, that with the increased number of wormholes due to more random ones, the frigate wormholes and the second static for C4 class, there should have been seen automatically (!!!) a significant increase in kills, don't you think so?

Your turn I guess. :)

PS: Nothing personal. I would appreciate it very much, if CCP can finally show some authentic stats. And if they prove the opposite of what many "non-hi-class-big-alliance-wormholers" feel, then it's that way. I have no problem with that.

King Fu Hostile wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
[deaths in] Wormholes are static. Jumps in high, low, and wormholes appear to be stable.
...
CCP Fozzi esaid they've been watching it and will continue to do so, but that numbers are pretty balanced in terms of who's leaving, who's arriving, and that kills are pretty stable. The big difference is just that the people leaving are noisier.



Where did Fozzie wrote that? It's just quoted above, this may have been said by Fozzie on summit or not (I have no official link to that), but he can say everything he wants as nobody from us can prove it or not. Did he showed official stats?

Despite that this could be easily explained by leaving Corps ;). When you live in wormholes and you are not part of a 99% pvp corp scouting every hole you do not jump that often to other holes / back to K-Space to refuel / getting out stuff. Especially those "Carebear" corps some you do not want in W-space for what reason ever (better have carebears, than nobody).

But when you leave W-space to K-Space you have to usually jump out a lot of stuff, especially ships...

"the only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself"
King Fu Hostile
Shiva Furnace
#2069 - 2014-11-05 14:47:07 UTC
Did you post some stats supporting your theory or did I just miss them in your post?
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2070 - 2014-11-05 15:08:37 UTC
You missed my whole post maybe? Roll
Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2071 - 2014-11-05 15:09:21 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
[deaths in] Wormholes are static. Jumps in high, low, and wormholes appear to be stable.
...
CCP Fozzi esaid they've been watching it and will continue to do so, but that numbers are pretty balanced in terms of who's leaving, who's arriving, and that kills are pretty stable. The big difference is just that the people leaving are noisier.



Where did Fozzie wrote that? It's just quoted above, this may have been said by Fozzie on summit or not (I have no official link to that), but he can say everything he wants as nobody from us can prove it or not. Did he showed official stats?


That was in the SEPTEMBER (as in seriously outdated) CSM minutes. It's hilarious that someone's trying to use that to say "nothing changed".
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#2072 - 2014-11-06 18:35:01 UTC
corbex has also gone silent.... Hmmmmm.....

Has anyone ever seen cobex and fuzzie in the same place at the same time? I'd even accept pictoral evidence that they aren't the same person.
Chicken Exroofer
Regional Assault and Recon
#2073 - 2014-11-07 20:44:15 UTC
Too little, too late. By years. Cumulative changes to wormholes over the last couple years, recent ones being the worst.
No innovation, especially in gameplay.

Seen the latest Star Citizen demos? CCP makes enough money , and has God's own server.
They could have been a contender.


Tower forcefield offline. Alts logged off in safe spots with cloaks. Stuff in a hisec station.
Wonder if CCP ever does release wormhole occupancy rates, and counts logged off dormant accounts as residents?
I'd say it's been fun, but I'd be lying.

Challenging, most definitely. For a while, that was enough.

In total, about 20 accounts that either have expired or will expire soon enough. Four of mine, the rest corpmates.
We told you this is what would happen.

No you can't have my stuff..
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2074 - 2014-11-08 21:45:29 UTC
Chicken Exroofer wrote:
Too little, too late. By years. Cumulative changes to wormholes over the last couple years, recent ones being the worst.
No innovation, especially in gameplay.

Seen the latest Star Citizen demos? CCP makes enough money , and has God's own server.
They could have been a contender.


Tower forcefield offline. Alts logged off in safe spots with cloaks. Stuff in a hisec station.
Wonder if CCP ever does release wormhole occupancy rates, and counts logged off dormant accounts as residents?
I'd say it's been fun, but I'd be lying.

Challenging, most definitely. For a while, that was enough.

In total, about 20 accounts that either have expired or will expire soon enough. Four of mine, the rest corpmates.
We told you this is what would happen.

No you can't have my stuff..


There seems to be a great deal in the pipeline, we may simply have witnessed the "stick" part of the equation in Hyperion (and it was a big one) which will now be hopefully balanced by the carrot ( some of these changes are already arriving, and they are good).

Yes, when confronted by a large stick, people do not take it well. we had no Idea the carrot was to follow, and reacted accordingly.

There is something for CCP to learn here regarding their relationship with the players:-

If you remove hope, Please give the promise of hope to come, people are much more willing to travel on that journey with you then.

The best Journey is one where you travel hopefully, the destination is secondary.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Mindo Junde
Bunnie Slayers
#2075 - 2014-11-12 20:39:08 UTC
Quote:
There seems to be a great deal in the pipeline, we may simply have witnessed the "stick" part of the equation in Hyperion (and it was a big one) which will now be hopefully balanced by the carrot ( some of these changes are already arriving, and they are good).

Yes, when confronted by a large stick, people do not take it well. we had no Idea the carrot was to follow, and reacted accordingly.

There is something for CCP to learn here regarding their relationship with the players:-

If you remove hope, Please give the promise of hope to come, people are much more willing to travel on that journey with you then.

The best Journey is one where you travel hopefully, the destination is secondary.


Sorry to say but too many players are fed up with CCP's jam tomorrow routine, same old bullshit about AWESOME (tm) soon. It may be true this time but give how quiet its been in wh's of late i suspect that Hyperion was the proverbial last straw.

I remember a quote from not too long ago not sure it was Fozzie but it went something along lines of 'we won't mess with wormholes, thats one of the few areas in eve that works'

and I'm not too interested in SC, that still smells of scamware. Elite:Dangerous on the other hand is getting very promising and its looking very much like a direct competitor.
AutumnWind1983
Reboot Required
#2076 - 2014-11-21 23:56:17 UTC
Jumping three caps deep into someone's home and fighting outnumbered was one of my absolute favorite things to do in eve pre-change. Fozzie killed that by dropping caps out of refitting range unless I bring a nestor per cap. In C5/C6 space this change has little benefit at the cost of some of the funnest fights in I've experienced in eve.

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2077 - 2014-12-13 13:08:45 UTC
Still relevant.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#2078 - 2014-12-15 07:44:38 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Still relevant.


No. Not as much as it's been made out.
Tinukeda'ya Naskingar
Minmatar Expeditions ltd.
#2079 - 2014-12-20 13:43:20 UTC
Wonder if they ever gonna show us the data...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -  Arthur C. Clarke

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2080 - 2014-12-21 18:30:01 UTC
I guess now it isn't so terribly bad since you can slightly mitigate the risk by just using a slowass tempest/apoc/raven/mega with higgs rig (it puts these 4 to just under 200 kt and with ab they get bumped to just under 300 kt).

It is still just as dangerous as it was but now you get to risk a 190m ship instead of an orca.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.