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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Author
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#6461 - 2014-10-04 12:34:36 UTC
I couldn't be more happy about this. A) tears. And 5) I never trained up for cap ships because I didn't want to have to deal with a cyno alt and JDC and all that happy horseshit. If I can't auto-pilot a ship and lose it like a dumbass, I don't want to fly it.

I am so going to derp me some cap ships now! Yay!!!

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6462 - 2014-10-04 12:34:36 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
What's truly funny about this is that even the unintended side effects are obvious and will be bad. You think Minnie/Amarr FW space is a hotdrop ghetto *now*? Look at a map and think about what PL and SC will do for fun when *forced* to only drop in a 5LY radius.

Faction war already sucked, but this is going to make the FW area hotdrop frequency a lot higher as blops and other ships are moved to where they are still fun and effective.

Seriously - did anyone put five minutes of thought into this? Anyone actually playing the game, I mean?

Meanwhile, those Black Frog prices are gonna get hilarious - assuming they don't just close doors for good.



bet 1 isk you are completely underestimatignhow PL will deal withthat. If you think they are such inactive nad lazy bunch to reduce their activities to that ...

they will likely distribute a bit more their capitals and wil probably travel a lot with them trough gates, since no one would engage them in their side of theuniverse when they are traveling with the capitals.


They will nto solve the new limitation by being so short sighted as you suggest.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6463 - 2014-10-04 12:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
A little of the reasoning, as far as I'm aware:

While big fights are nice and all, the ability to hot drop someone on the other side of New Eden leads to people avoiding fights, so they don't get dropped by, say, PL being bat phoned.

I'm glad I was there for B-R.. It or anything like it will never be seen again.

Limiting force projection with capitals is one thing (and a good thing)., Removing it altogether is just a lot of wasted SP and isk on capitals already purchased.

I do look forward to losing my capitals to gate camps - and not replacing them.

Shame I can't get all the capital SP refunded for my toons, it would be better put elsewhere.
Minmatar Titan 5 - What a waste..

Kagura Nikon wrote:


They want meaningful reasons for the game nto be only solo ---> directly jump to 1k+ people involved on anything.

Not gong to happen - Large fleet fights involving capitals just became a part of eve history.
No group is going to risk moving large numbers of capitals any further than they need to defend their own space. As in most cases all their neighbours are blue - capitals will become static home defense fleets.


IF the effect is what you say it willbe, wich I doubt. Then they get the other effect they intend to reach with their next changes. EMpires shrink.

Capitals did nto LOOSE POWER PROJECITON dammit. Capitals can travel trough gates .

They just lost REACTION capability. THey can still project power as well as before. But now it will be something planed 1 day early.. like in the old days.

In 2 hours you can move capitals trough gates and a couple of jumps enough to redeploy from one corner of their side of universe to almost the other.

But probably captiasl will still be used, just less hotdrop style. And the empires will only shrink after next set of changes to sov.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Black Viper1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6464 - 2014-10-04 12:37:26 UTC
CCP,
You realize that this will be the end of EVE, people will quit and never come back, your only profitable enterprise will fail, this would be the opposite of a 'Come to jesus moment' you need to bring people back into the game.

1. Why do you want ships with jump drives to be faster going through gates?!
That's the entire POINT of a jump drive, these ships are a massive pain to build and supers can't even dock. To make up for that they are capable of fast travel, amazing tank, and damage potential that is awe inspiring, these players have trained for YEARS to own and fly them, and they also have dedicated accounts to sit in them. After all of the money they have paid to play the game and all of the game hours have they have put in why would you destroy there value? Maybe have a 5 minute cooldown but under no circumstances should the timer have a multiplier, and NO way should they be faster through gates that is the entire point of the ships! Nerfing the range so that there are some jumps that CANNOT be made is beyond crazy, people won't go to those places then, they'll be empty because regional industry can't be maintained, (point 3 read on). Saying that is just as idiotic as saying that covert OPS shouldn't be flying around with a cov ops cloak II, that's part of what makes them awesome and worth the price tag, otherwise people would just use T1 explo frigates for 1/20th the cost.

2,Events like BRB are the BEST thing you at CCP have going for you right now.
BRB made national news all over the US where I live, it drew people into the game, I heard people who didn't know how to send a text message talking about EVE ONLINE. If there current server setup can't handle those battles then upgrade them, Events like that are an awesome and free way to get new subscribers, as a company you should be all about them. A once a year or 2 year capital slug fest that equals thousands of dollars lost in game ships and modules that makes national news and is repeated for 3 days over the non stop 24 hour news cycle is the best advertising money can buy and it's free!

3.This will destroy the in game industry.
I love EVE but it is already a massive, massive, MASSIVE logistics nightmare. How can you even hope you have regional industry when not all items are available in every region?! Even lower grade ore can't be found in quantity enough in NULL, let alone regional isotopes from ICE, salvage, moon goo. Everything is spread out all over the known universe, take for example the KEREs and simple T2 electronic attack ship, Gallente flavor;
This small ship requires 7 components that are made from moon goo, morphite which can't be mined in high sec so it must be imported, and lets not forget that all of those 7 components are made in a staion / component assembly array from 2 different types of moon goo, AFTER the moon goo has been through a reactor. The point is that the current industry even for the smallest and simplest advanced ships require a HUGE amount of planning, fueling POSes, moving to different POSes, moving materials to HIGH sec, mining, refining, research agents for the data cores, then moving all of the materials to another location to make the ship, and STILL then moving the finished product to a trade hub to sell. HIGH sec needs NULL sec just as much as NULL sec needs HIGH sec if you can't move things easily and cheaply the cost of everything will go through the roof and industry will be left in ruins.

4.Why would you punish your loyal subscriber base by destroying an entire class of ships instead of fixing REAL problems with EVE?
This makes no sense for someone who has spent years preparing to fly a super, THATS WHY IT TAKES YEARS! It's supposed to be a big reward for the long training requirements and loss of a character that can now only sit in 1 ship. If you would like to fix something how about the new player experience, or lack there of? Most people quit because the new player experience is HORRID, I would have if someone hadn't said I should join BRAVE, but is that how you want to keep people around? Just hoping that when in an NPC corp chat window they say this game is horrible, my overview in crap, the learning curve is straight up, the missions are boring, and I don't know what to do. Someone else says hey join these guys they will help. The best way to keep people in the game is to get them in a good player corp you know that as well as I do.

5.This will not help NULL stagnation it will make it worse.
This tips the scale even more in favor of the defenders because there caps are close at hand, no one will attack because then they'll be hot dropped just like now and won't be able to counter drop. And why would you think that this idea should even BEGIN to apply to jump bridges?! That's the ENTIRE point of having them, they are a REWARD for taking and maintaining space they allow for faster travel, safer travel, and quicker responses for fights to defend ones space. Death cloning is really not an issue and shouldn't even be on CCPs radar, this just makes trying to join a new corp as a new player even harder and is a waste of time to even be talking about.

6.EVE dudes who think this is a good idea and want to go back in time.
It's not going to happen; the game is different, new ship classes, more caps (which since they're an end game ship you should expect), and now people can claim entire systems for themselves. Instead of complaining about NULL power blocs, get together and go fight them, that's how the GOONS, TEST, and now BRAVE got started to name a few.

In closing since only like 3 people will read this far, (thanks by the way), CCP you are removing the reward part of the game by this MASSIVE blunder you are talking about, people do things for rewards it's that simple

7o
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#6465 - 2014-10-04 12:42:49 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
What's truly funny about this is that even the unintended side effects are obvious and will be bad. You think Minnie/Amarr FW space is a hotdrop ghetto *now*? Look at a map and think about what PL and SC will do for fun when *forced* to only drop in a 5LY radius.

Faction war already sucked, but this is going to make the FW area hotdrop frequency a lot higher as blops and other ships are moved to where they are still fun and effective.

Seriously - did anyone put five minutes of thought into this? Anyone actually playing the game, I mean?

Meanwhile, those Black Frog prices are gonna get hilarious - assuming they don't just close doors for good.



bet 1 isk you are completely underestimatignhow PL will deal withthat. If you think they are such inactive nad lazy bunch to reduce their activities to that ...

they will likely distribute a bit more their capitals and wil probably travel a lot with them trough gates, since no one would engage them in their side of theuniverse when they are traveling with the capitals.


They will nto solve the new limitation by being so short sighted as you suggest.


Lol, PL (and SC) *already* do this for fun. I am saying they will now be incentivized to do it *more*.

This is not reacting in a short sighted way for them at all. It is incentivizing them to increase an activity they already enjoy doing. And I won't blame them at all when they do. Hell, I would do it too if I were them.
Celsus Balog
DAB
Solyaris Chtonium
#6466 - 2014-10-04 12:49:48 UTC
As a smaller gang cap pilot who's not particularly engaged with any of the capital power blocs, I think this might just do it for my time in Eve.

First you make it painfully expensive to move capital assets around, then you make it about 3x more painful than that (15ly ---> 5ly, 3:1 reduction in range...) to move anywhere.

Understand that you're trying to make way for the player-owned stargates and all that, however breaking the game isn't the way to manage mobility.

Why not just cut to the chase and show everyone's avatars in the Captain's Quarters rolling around with no legs on a wheelchair?


I'll wait to see how all this turns out, but I'm not liking being penalized for training up JDC5 and other skills only to have the rug pulled out from under me. Boo, CCP. Boo!
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6467 - 2014-10-04 12:52:46 UTC
Celsus Balog wrote:
As a smaller gang cap pilot who's not particularly engaged with any of the capital power blocs, I think this might just do it for my time in Eve.

First you make it painfully expensive to move capital assets around, then you make it about 3x more painful than that (15ly ---> 5ly, 3:1 reduction in range...) to move anywhere.

Understand that you're trying to make way for the player-owned stargates and all that, however breaking the game isn't the way to manage mobility.

Why not just cut to the chase and show everyone's avatars in the Captain's Quarters rolling around with no legs on a wheelchair?


I'll wait to see how all this turns out, but I'm not liking being penalized for training up JDC5 and other skills only to have the rug pulled out from under me. Boo, CCP. Boo!


Your allaince and corp name mention the words "Elite" and "Methodical" This must be a sign that you will think of some way to adapt. Otherwise everything under your picture is a lie.
Also boo you, CCP is creating content, i lost my carrier movement too but im going to deal with it none the less

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#6468 - 2014-10-04 13:00:06 UTC
I Like this changes a lot, And i use JB,s Caps daily. this will generate a loot of fun fights and titan gate caps ^^ Pirate


Only JF's Nerf is bad .... some systems are so so so deep, like drone regions. amount of cynos needed will be over 9000.

and kill the residents :<

i don't think there is a real need to nerf the JF's in any way.


Other than that SUper cool ^^ i sure will get a titan now my self lol Cool
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#6469 - 2014-10-04 13:04:21 UTC
Ain Depran wrote:


People threatening to quit because they cant be bothered to think is an exciting prospect in my view :)

Indeed, I won't be quitting but not having to "think" about subbing 7 capital and 15 cyno alts will be nice.
More time for pvp, no need to grind isk.

I play eve to relax and have some mindless fun with the odd thought about logistics. Take the mindless fun away you take away my reason to play.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#6470 - 2014-10-04 13:08:47 UTC
Mmmm...mmmm...

Love me some dull-sec tears... Lol
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#6471 - 2014-10-04 13:11:24 UTC
So, i just saw this cazy ass calculation

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rDMQpeKE-HzGKmFRTR69HJCk4McHyHz020Qs4Rgg414/edit?pli=1#gid=0.

And i think that wait jump timer, and time to decay. should never be biger than 24 hours. there should be limit to it.

anfther you get max, let's say 5x 5 LY jumps or some thing. Roll



and oh boy, JF's Should have 99% reduction insted of 90%, and non reduced Jump range. Ugh
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#6472 - 2014-10-04 13:12:31 UTC
gascanu wrote:

i wonder how long that excitement will last when they realize that basically nothing will change; oh yea, maybe two-three bits of space will crumble from the large coallitons,


"bits" large enough to fit a small alliance, which would be happy as is.


gascanu wrote:

but that's it; you guys keep talking about how the big blocks won't be able to defend themself on multiple fronts... defend themself from who???


Who would bother attacking head on powerblocks? Powerblocks will have to re-focus and proably leave out portions of unused territory without anyone having to bother attacking them at their super-defended "core".


gascanu wrote:

it's not like this change will bring 2-3 strong alliances out of thin air that will start attacking cfc or nc. or pl.


EvE used to be a galaxy of small and medium alliances bound to their limited territory. I am not even sure in the beginning there will be somebody caring to "get strong and attack cfc, nc or pl".


gascanu wrote:

the large blocks will turtle down even more, at least as long as their HUGE income it's not affected; oh, they will lose a moon or two in low sec, but that's about it;
so really, i see allot of ppl posting here with some kind of "wild-wild west fever" about how after patch day there will be 0.0 space for everyone, you just need to reach your hand and grab it...really, grow up guys, 2004 eve it's gone and not coming back;
and yea, all this excitement is nice but it will last till you'll get 2-3 times a full cap fleet in the face to realize that you need allot more things beside enthusiasm so you can beat cfc.or nc.


Yeah, i hear you. "All is pointless, let's sit down and suck our thumbs while EvE declines, do nothing because nothing will change".

I have news for you: doing nothing is asphyxiating EvE. Therefore sitting down and waiting is not going to work.

Plenty of chances the new changes won't work either, but at least they tried. Try >>>> sit down and wait.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6473 - 2014-10-04 13:13:30 UTC
Supreme Commander wrote:
I really like how some serious thought was put into this change, great idea. Here are some of the good points.

1. You have made Capital ships very ineffective at their job which is power projection.
2. Players can stop training for Capital ships and save their billions of isk for something else.
3. After this change Titans are pointless, great job at making the most expensive, skill intensive ship in the game a complete waste of time. No longer need to waste isk saving for one, thank you so much.
4. You have made Capital ships much less desirable to use and as such players will no longer waste a lot of their training on them.

I am sure these changes will be embraced by all, after all we enjoy changes that significantly nerf a whole class of ships. Nerf away CCP I am sure this will increase subscriptions significantly.


I don't think so but it'll be wait and see.

1) Within their rang - no effectiveness loss. Only vast distances are lost, not "within range".

What you'll find is clusters of caps parked at strategic locations with jump clones at those areas for the pilots. You'll want SEVERAL capital stashes scattered around an empire to help defend it and/or attack others at different points around null.

2) Not really.

See above. All that's lost is vast range - not "long range', just the vastness part.

They are still very tough ships and they will actually be safer and easier to use being as "hot drops" won't be that easy to pull off against smaller groups using them.

No more titans and supers bouncing vast distances in minutes to nail some carrier based gang working a distant area. They'll need to be closer to hit a target or, if jump clones are used, the target needs to be worth burning a days JC to get to that location.

Much less form up anywhere to "gank the smaller crew because we can" across nullsec.

3) Titans will provide bridging from strategic systems to other systems within range.

As such, they will need to be deployed in various areas, split up and used in smaller numbers to bridge ships across to war fronts. Less "clustering" of titans into fleets/gangs, more distribution of them as key assets to enable fights.

Fewer titan pilots will be dedicated to a given effort or you'll lose that ability in other parts of your empire. They will be far more a strategic asset vs tactical and not something to redeploy willy-nilly.

4) True.

If you are going to be in nullsec, you're going to need several parked in different locations so you can bounce to those locations. That's expensive.

Owning 5+ functionally setup capitals in different parts of an empire, not counting spare ships to replace losses ... (if you can't quickly move them across space, you can't quickly move a replacement either - stash will be "the order of the day" on capitals)

The common uses for them will be drastically reduced due to the loss of that high mobility - not combat uses but common uses.

No more "my carrier is my mini-freighter, used to move everything around". That won't work well - but a Jump Freighter should work in most situations, though with much more risk being as it doesn't have firepower.



What will be wanted are a lot of jump clones scattered around in various areas where ships are at so you can quickly get to an area then climb in a ship and help attack/defend.

Battles will take much longer to setup - you'll need to get a good number of ships & pilots to a pre-staging area then bring them on to launch an attack from there - all timed around fatigue.

Sneak attacks won't be anywhere near as common or possible to pull off being as people will need to know in advance to make sure their pilots are not fatigued for the battle and they all have to be close enough to actually commit the attack.

All the rest will simply be limitations on how far you can go to attack and defend - not limiting their ability to fight nor move large distances quickly, simply not able to move vast distances in minutes.

It will be a paradigm shift with respect to how far and how many huge ships people will have - and how many jump clones they'll have scattered about.

I'm betting in larger null empires, the cap pilots will need several stashes of capitals with jump clone facilities nearby and that will increase many people's training times a little to get a few more JC's available. Where all those med clone facilities will come from? Good question...

I still don't know if fatigue lasts through a pod-kill. If that is not the case then expect people to use a lot of:
- jump as far as you can -> fly to med clone spot -> set it active -> suicide -> Repeat.

The above will probably happen if people can clear that fatigue with a suicide to then climb into a ship and jump again.

IMO that would be some pretty sick stuff but quite probably a fairly common work-around for cap pilots needing to jump a lot in a short time window.
IDGAD
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6474 - 2014-10-04 13:16:10 UTC
So when is that new large nyx model coming out CCP? I'd love to sell off all my chars for isk and change them into plex to buy one nice thing to remember EVE by after quitting.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#6475 - 2014-10-04 13:16:34 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
I Like this changes a lot, And i use JB,s Caps daily. this will generate a loot of fun fights and titan gate caps ^^ Pirate


Only JF's Nerf is bad .... some systems are so so so deep, like drone regions. amount of cynos needed will be over 9000.

and kill the residents :<

i don't think there is a real need to nerf the JF's in any way.


Other than that SUper cool ^^ i sure will get a titan now my self lol Cool


yea, it will probably look fun when you are on the side with the titans... for the roaming gang passing.. don't think it will feel fun Blink
Klown Walk
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#6476 - 2014-10-04 13:19:15 UTC
Stop being lazy instead of quitting.
Prince Kobol
#6477 - 2014-10-04 13:21:09 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.


Its often I agree with Lucas but he has it bang on.

That is thing, people who traditionally oppose each are agreeing that this will only make things worse.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#6478 - 2014-10-04 13:29:17 UTC
IDGAD wrote:
So when is that new large nyx model coming out CCP? I'd love to sell off all my chars for isk and change them into plex to buy one nice thing to remember EVE by after quitting.


Bio or it didn't happen.

I quit eve every month, but I don't cry about it.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6479 - 2014-10-04 13:31:10 UTC
One good thing.

Apparently, fully half of the 0.0 residents have either stopped, or are about to stop, their subscriptions.

That opens up a lot of opportunities for those that want a piece of the null pie but didn't previously have the manpower to do it. So CCP in one move get rid of the entitled dead wood and open up null to people that will actually use it.

Win/win

Mr Epeen Cool
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6480 - 2014-10-04 13:31:16 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.


Its often I agree with Lucas but he has it bang on.

That is thing, people who traditionally oppose each are agreeing that this will only make things worse.


Which is exactly what you'd expect the reaction would be from those that want null to stay the same.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."