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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#6441 - 2014-10-04 11:23:42 UTC
gascanu wrote:

oh yea, maybe two-three bits of space will crumble from the large coallitons

Honestly, this would be infinitely better than what's going on now (which is nothing).
Miriya Zakalwe
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6442 - 2014-10-04 11:26:44 UTC
This thread literally saved me 6B ISK. I was seriously considering buying a JF for my hauler alt, to help increase my and my friends' enjoyment of the game by making what had been tedious more convenient. Now? no f*cking way.

Now I can use it to plex instead of paying for my sub \o/
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6443 - 2014-10-04 11:33:27 UTC
Ain Depran wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
[quote=Riven Alteritus]



CFC / N3 / PL will still have the numbers, the isk and their Capital Fleets.






Will they? How many of the renters are going to stay under the alliance controls? Logistics to the Drone Regions for instance is going to become a pain in the butt and costs/time for hauling might mean many renter corps pull out.

How much isk per month will the alliances lose from this I wonder?

Markets are so bad in null its almost impossible to even sell ore, however I guess this could well pick up if it means limited hauling to Jita eh?

Still, you could always just build everything in null and seed the markets and make a killing....oh, apart from the moon goon being in the wrong place and the distinct lack of mexallon......

Cap ships through gates?? que EVERY gate being bubbled permanently.

Damn I love this game :)


NC: should have thought of drone regions being badly accessible before renting them out.
Prince Kobol
#6444 - 2014-10-04 11:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Ain Depran wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
[quote=Riven Alteritus]



CFC / N3 / PL will still have the numbers, the isk and their Capital Fleets.






Will they? How many of the renters are going to stay under the alliance controls? Logistics to the Drone Regions for instance is going to become a pain in the butt and costs/time for hauling might mean many renter corps pull out.

How much isk per month will the alliances lose from this I wonder?

Markets are so bad in null its almost impossible to even sell ore, however I guess this could well pick up if it means limited hauling to Jita eh?

Still, you could always just build everything in null and seed the markets and make a killing....oh, apart from the moon goon being in the wrong place and the distinct lack of mexallon......

Cap ships through gates?? que EVERY gate being bubbled permanently.

Damn I love this game :)



Every one of them because there space will become even more secure because its such a massive pain to get to. They are going to be able to break out their carriers to rat with because the risk of anybody going to all that trouble to try and drop a fleet on them is going to be very slim.

Remember it works both ways.

I know for fact that both the CFC and NC have already mapped out new routes and are already in the mist of preparing for this change.

Yes logistics is going to be horrible but they have so many people, so many alts that they can cope, they will be able to adapt like they always have.

How do you think the smaller entities who do not have all those alts are going to cope?

As for isk.. are you really that blind?

All that Moon Goo, Tier 4 PI and rare ore, where do you think it comes from and who owns all that space?

All they will do is push the prices up. The people who will pay are those having to buy because they do not own any moons or are able to mine any rare ores.

What will most likely happen is that those people who own all the moons, who have access to null sec ores will be able to field T2 Fleets after T2 Fleets and those who don't wont be able to afford them thus making the gulf even bigger.
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
#6445 - 2014-10-04 11:45:29 UTC
did greyscale got a twitter? i dont want miss when he announce he go work for riot

there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !

CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power

Momitsu
Deep Exploration Projects and Programs
#6446 - 2014-10-04 11:51:54 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Momitsu wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


Most people in null hate the current meta however this will not weaken the coalitions, it will do the opposite.

Sure you can take your small fleet out with a big decrease in risk from a Cap Fleet being drop on you, instead you will have a 250+ Subcap fleet with no way to counter it and you will not be able to get any reinforcements in time and you can't attack their home system because it is defended by a massive capital fleet.



And where will that lead to?

Empires will shrink because you can't defend systems far away as easy as of now. Homesystems will be more strengthened.
It's more difficult to wipe out someone else completely but it leaves more space for new and smaller groups with their concentrated local force.

Mission accomplished

Regarding those alpha fleets...you will loose them to the local capital fleets.
Who wants to travel every evening a lot of jumps in a fat and slow bs? Your logistics won't be able to bring unlimited replacements to every point on the map within minutes


Don't you get it.. they will Capital Fleets defending their home systems


Really? You quote me writing about defending capitals and stronger home systems and ask me wether "not getting it" because of defending capitals?

Sometimes people seem to write nonsense just because of wanting to see themselves writing.

Sorry mate, makes no sense bringing arguments under that circumstances
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6447 - 2014-10-04 11:52:20 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
322 pages of "this doesn't affect us at all, but CCP really shouldn't do this because of :reasons:".

Sums up most of the thread pretty nicely tbh.


It only affect's our ability to have fun. Not their ability to maintain their giant space-empire.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#6448 - 2014-10-04 11:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
PotatoOverdose wrote:
gascanu wrote:

oh yea, maybe two-three bits of space will crumble from the large coallitons

Honestly, this would be infinitely better than what's going on now (which is nothing).


one question: will you leave your current home to move in one of those "pieces"?
you say there is no available space atm in 0.0, but let me ask you again? where is your alliance living?
oh yea, there is allot of free 0.0 NPC space, but well, living there is dangerous and hard; also, it takes "effort"
much easyer to cry on the forums eve it's unfair, CCP HALP!
p.s. the funny thing is,since i'm living in venal and neutral with all eve, this change hurts me more than any goon/pl.nc.
but yea the retards living in empire can't comprehend that, they can't see beyond "it's hurting goons"; yea it's hurts them, but they are probably the least affected by this
Agonising Ecstacy
Chaos Army
#6449 - 2014-10-04 11:59:57 UTC
Ain Depran wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
[quote=Riven Alteritus]



CFC / N3 / PL will still have the numbers, the isk and their Capital Fleets.






Will they? How many of the renters are going to stay under the alliance controls? Logistics to the Drone Regions for instance is going to become a pain in the butt and costs/time for hauling might mean many renter corps pull out.

How much isk per month will the alliances lose from this I wonder?

Markets are so bad in null its almost impossible to even sell ore, however I guess this could well pick up if it means limited hauling to Jita eh?

Still, you could always just build everything in null and seed the markets and make a killing....oh, apart from the moon goon being in the wrong place and the distinct lack of mexallon......

Cap ships through gates?? que EVERY gate being bubbled permanently.

Damn I love this game :)



Renters - even the concept of renters is a cancer on Eve
Lost ISK for Alliances - If they aren't building 10 titans a week - they have enough ISK to last them, oh, about forever
Bad Markets in Null - they are bad *because* Jita is two cynos away
Moon Goo i n wrong place - Some space more valuable than others?! That's the POINT of some of these changes
Mexallon shortage - "Demand"! however will the markets react?
Bubbled gates - a conflict driver that the game needs

I don't know if you are for or against the changes, yours was a random post I read flickin through the 300 odd pages. But I kindof disagreed with every 'bad thing' you seemed to bring up. If you were being doubly sarcastic/ironic and I missed it, apologies in advance. If you really think all the bad things you mentioned are bad, then we must be playing different games...
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#6450 - 2014-10-04 12:01:06 UTC
Over 300 pages, well done CCP, this is awesome.
Most of the people in this topic are ********. Yes the changes are harsh but they could have made them even more so, everybody can say thanks to CCP for not doing that.
CHANGE…. Omg the worlds ending, 0.0 logistics is going to be too hard…blackops have been nerfed into the ground all my capitals are useless, blar blar blar.
All the same stuff has been said every time CCP has changed something and o look EvE is still here.
People still play, people resub old accounts and new people start playing with every change.
I hope everyone complaining in this topic does leave, but can you go now and never post or log in again? Don’t even log in to give your stuff to someone or biomass or anything just go, Thanks.

Low sec and null in 2015 is going to be very interesting. I can see some very strange and clever tactics been invented to be able to move things and trap people in different locations. I already have plans on a few things in terms of movement of goods and services. And I cannot wait for more dev blogs and things going on the test server so we can test things out….
Mechatronicus Anihilus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6451 - 2014-10-04 12:01:54 UTC

I strongly suspect the jump distance nerf will not have the desired effect. Here are a few examples/reasons why:

1) The Goons and droneland Russians controlled huge swaths of null without the use of cap projection for years. Any large power blocks can. When you have 1000 100mill sp players u don't need cap projection. T3 or alpha bs blobs will work fine.

2) CCP cleansed null of small independent corps a couple years ago with the sanctum/sec status nerf in Crucible. Hundreds of small corps and their players abandoned null and the game, for economic reasons. Nerfs almost always do more harm than good. Can anyone here point out a nerf that actually attracted anyone to this game or brought back players who left?

3) The game is about economy (cost) and what players want (i.e. fun). Cost and fun dictate decisions: what gets trained, what gets built, what gets flown, what gets suicide-ganked, and what gets primaried in a fleet fight. There are economic and player-desired reasons for the large power blocs in null, which are reinforced by game mechanics such as jump distance, not vice versa. (Personal example) Cost and fun dictated my decision to train a j/f alt. Jumping my j/f past 5 gatecamps in 2 hops and selling stuff at 200% markup in null is fun and worth the risk/cost/time invested. Having to do the same thing in 10 hops is not fun and not worth the risk/cost/time invested.


4) The devs are out of touch with too much of the day-to-day reality in Eve. CCP Greyscale's example of someone hopping a solo carrier through 40 gates in low/null is great comedy but not realistic for those of us who traverse low/null. Get a clue before making "game-breaking" changes.

5) One way I see of CCP achieving the goals set out in CCP Greyscale's blog is implementing the 5ly jump distance nerf in conjunction with a massive overhaul of the entire null/low/high sec status cluster geography. Try picturing high-sec island clusters (~5 systems), surrounded by a small moat of lowsec (~10 systems), floating in an ocean of null (~20 systems), with about a 10-15 ly distance between the nearest high-sec islands. Then maybe you would see more of the localization and power shake-up they have in mind.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6452 - 2014-10-04 12:04:38 UTC
Again and again.. people keep forgetting that the capitals ships are gettign a MASSIVE buff on being able to cross gates.

That alone will increase dramatically their tactical capabilities on a SMALL frotn scenario. YEs they lose strategic power but gain more tactical power. They are Not useless at all. On the contrary

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6453 - 2014-10-04 12:05:13 UTC
324 pages of mainly negative responses to this announcement and not one constructive comment from CCP Dev's as to why they feel so dead set on making these changes except to vomit the usual excuses that this is 'AN IMPROVEMENT' wtf are you guys smoking in that office, moving Supers by gates, like that is gonna happen.

As for the CSM, shamed to have you represent us, my initial recommendation when I first became aware of this PvP cluster ****, was to say disband it as it only promotes unbalance across EVE as a whole, not really what this game was about is it??.

As for the changes themselves, I see no problem at all with making Capital 'Combat' ship movements more difficult, I do however see problems with tinkering with the logistics side of things for those people CCP ostensibly encouraged to go live in Null Sec and predict a reversal of flow on this one point alone, 90% bonus for JF and Roquals, just could not resist slipping that one in could you, the rest of it is just trivial rubbish to be honest when you really look through it, badly thought out and like so many other times BADLY PROMOTED.

Dev's wrote the code for the tools on hand and now there squealing 'foul and exploit', when players use those mechanics to do something they had not thought about, ...Maybe one day the Devs will understand that they cannot force players to do anything really, if the idea is not good for players they simply will not engage with it and bad ideas just taint the game overall leaving the feeling that maybe paying sub's to CCP for something that ultimately is a let down and does not provide the balanced game play over all the many facets it offers down to one simple change like the current trend to nerf logistics time and again gives rise to the thought that CCP really don't have any positive direction for EVE at all, 'Death by a thousand cuts' has been mentioned here in the past.

If living in Null Sec proves non-viable players will simply move back to Empire space and kicking Logistics in the nuts in this manner only indicates it will. If they believe trade hubs will suddenly spring up in 0.0 space all 5 ly apart they really have not thought it through very well have they, and not everyone in game wants to just kill everything they see no matter were they chose to live in EVE. some play it to build things, no viable outlets, no production, simple as that.

I for one am currently planning to move assets out of Null Sec on 13 accounts before this game killer is brought in and then un-sub 10 of them, a large percentage of the industrial heart of my Corporation, all paid for cash, and I can assure CCP they will not be re-subbed any time soon and I would advise anyone in game that feels this type of change is negative do the same, CCP accountants will soon put a stop to this buffoonery when it hits the dollar value of the game, and that is the true nature of a CSM, player choice.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6454 - 2014-10-04 12:07:45 UTC
Mechatronicus Anihilus wrote:



4) The devs are out of touch with too much of the day-to-day reality in Eve. CCP Greyscale's example of someone hopping a solo carrier through 40 gates in low/null is great comedy but not realistic for those of us who traverse low/null. Get a clue before making "game-breaking" changes.





No youa re out of touch with what ccp is saying. They do not expect carriers to solo hop for 40 jumps. They expect carriers to NOT SOLO AT ALL!

They want meaningful reasons for the game nto be only solo ---> directly jump to 1k+ people involved on anything.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#6455 - 2014-10-04 12:14:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Steve Ronuken wrote:
A little of the reasoning, as far as I'm aware:

While big fights are nice and all, the ability to hot drop someone on the other side of New Eden leads to people avoiding fights, so they don't get dropped by, say, PL being bat phoned.

I'm glad I was there for B-R.. It or anything like it will never be seen again.

Limiting force projection with capitals is one thing (and a good thing)., Removing it altogether is just a lot of wasted SP and isk on capitals already purchased.

I do look forward to losing my capitals to gate camps - and not replacing them.

Shame I can't get all the capital SP refunded for my toons, it would be better put elsewhere.
Minmatar Titan 5 - What a waste..

Kagura Nikon wrote:


They want meaningful reasons for the game nto be only solo ---> directly jump to 1k+ people involved on anything.

Not gong to happen - Large fleet fights involving capitals just became a part of eve history.
No group is going to risk moving large numbers of capitals any further than they need to defend their own space. As in most cases all their neighbours are blue - capitals will become static home defense fleets.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Christopher Mabata
Mabata's Marauders
#6456 - 2014-10-04 12:16:57 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Over 300 pages, well done CCP, this is awesome.
Most of the people in this topic are ********. Yes the changes are harsh but they could have made them even more so, everybody can say thanks to CCP for not doing that.
CHANGE…. Omg the worlds ending, 0.0 logistics is going to be too hard…blackops have been nerfed into the ground all my capitals are useless, blar blar blar.
All the same stuff has been said every time CCP has changed something and o look EvE is still here.
People still play, people resub old accounts and new people start playing with every change.
I hope everyone complaining in this topic does leave, but can you go now and never post or log in again? Don’t even log in to give your stuff to someone or biomass or anything just go, Thanks.

Low sec and null in 2015 is going to be very interesting. I can see some very strange and clever tactics been invented to be able to move things and trap people in different locations. I already have plans on a few things in terms of movement of goods and services. And I cannot wait for more dev blogs and things going on the test server so we can test things out….


Im literally waiting for the test server edit so i can test all this myself more than im waiting on this skill to finish training

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#6457 - 2014-10-04 12:22:50 UTC
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Miriya Zakalwe
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6458 - 2014-10-04 12:26:56 UTC
What's truly funny about this is that even the unintended side effects are obvious and will be bad. You think Minnie/Amarr FW space is a hotdrop ghetto *now*? Look at a map and think about what PL and SC will do for fun when *forced* to only drop in a 5LY radius.

Faction war already sucked, but this is going to make the FW area hotdrop frequency a lot higher as blops and other ships are moved to where they are still fun and effective.

Seriously - did anyone put five minutes of thought into this? Anyone actually playing the game, I mean?

Meanwhile, those Black Frog prices are gonna get hilarious - assuming they don't just close doors for good.
Ain Depran
Doomheim
#6459 - 2014-10-04 12:32:51 UTC
Agonising Ecstacy wrote:
[quote=Ain Depran][quote=Prince Kobol][quote=Riven Alteritus]





Renters - even the concept of renters is a cancer on Eve
Lost ISK for Alliances - If they aren't building 10 titans a week - they have enough ISK to last them, oh, about forever
Bad Markets in Null - they are bad *because* Jita is two cynos away
Moon Goo i n wrong place - Some space more valuable than others?! That's the POINT of some of these changes
Mexallon shortage - "Demand"! however will the markets react?
Bubbled gates - a conflict driver that the game needs

I don't know if you are for or against the changes, yours was a random post I read flickin through the 300 odd pages. But I kindof disagreed with every 'bad thing' you seemed to bring up. If you were being doubly sarcastic/ironic and I missed it, apologies in advance. If you really think all the bad things you mentioned are bad, then we must be playing different games...



I'm defiantly FOR all the changes! Anything that make Eve a game where you have to think more is a good thing to me. I post random stuff that pops into my head that's all lol

People threatening to quit because they cant be bothered to think is an exciting prospect in my view :)
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#6460 - 2014-10-04 12:33:45 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
[quote=Steve Ronuken]
I'm glad I was there for B-R.. It or anything like it will never be seen again.


Every massive battle/thing every one said it will never happen again.
Y- then the nest Y- o2o asakai the hed-gp welp B-R
Every time people said you will never see this again, but we did, bigger and better each time.
Serenity server has already seen more titans die in one fight than we have had on tranquillity.

People/ Life finds a way