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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5121 - 2014-10-03 09:11:28 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Jumpbridges are essentially removed, rather than preventing their use for crossing the galaxy, it prevents their use even for intraregion travel. This appears to be a change intentionally backdoored under the guise of stopping "long distance" travel. Jump bridges are one of the few real advantages of owning space.

I'd say JBs are still usable for civillian travel within the JB network. The main problem is that they cannot be used or relied upon by the FCs for offensive deployment within that same environment, so for offensive measures they are essentially removed.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5122 - 2014-10-03 09:15:18 UTC
Gho Higyidr wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Actually, are the time aspects of the JF changes necessarily so bad? I would've thought the LY changes would have much more of an impact, especially considering that the haulage guys can either utilize more alts and just change their delivery method to a pony express style of delivery, i.e. JF guy 1 takes leg 1, JF guy 2 takes leg 2 etc.

The LY change means that some things are potentially not even viable to reach, like deep space, and I would've thought people would be more up in arms about this. I kind of like it, because it does exactly what CCP wants, i.e. make space larger and more strategic, but I can also appreciate the added difficulty this does create for deep space inhabitants.


Just feels like too big of a step back from modern EVE Online to me. I remember the days before JF's and I lived in Drone Lands during those days. I made things locally but making the trip to empire for the bigger necessities.. wasn't FUN at all. It took VERY careful planning and execution. It's not cut and dry, it's tedious and time consuming.. tbh not really the kind of fun I'm after in EVE. Think about it. JF's already consume a TON more fuel than they did... My JF chokes down a full hold (100ish K isotopes) in a round trip trek across my home to maintain basic things. It's very expensive and already time-consuming enough as it is, even with help. With this JF nerf inbound, I will have to resort to old-school methods of tower and logistics maintenance when my Jump Fatigue is too high... It's not fun and it's not worth the time I'd rather spend shooting all the things.

I don't disagree with you that the changes done to JFs might have adverse effects which may or may not be desirable, I'm just thinking that the changes which definitely will have the most effect would be the range, not the cooldown, yet it seems to be the cooldown most people are up in arms about.
Hademar Drake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5123 - 2014-10-03 09:15:46 UTC
Will My jump drive calibration 5 skill points be given back to me , as having the skill any more than level 3 now will be pointless , and it will no increase the range past 5! I just cannot believe by fixing the jump drives your effectively gonna kill off null sec - and capital ships and ccp if you do this along with the rest of your proposed changes - its game over for me.
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#5124 - 2014-10-03 09:16:32 UTC
As a side note, I find the jump fatigue very nicely "scifi". I'm not familiar with any scifi world where instant long distance traveling around would be possible with minimal energy consumption and no side effects like currently in EVE.

Chirality Tisteloin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5125 - 2014-10-03 09:19:39 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:

Perhaps make it so that you can contract a jumpclone so that it can be shipped to the new destination? That achieves the same goal for new players wanting to join, gives them an option over flying out to null but stops the ability for characters to instantly get somewhere.


I really like that idea. Make clones an item. Have the corp mates ship it for you. Only problem is the trapped in 0.0 situation.

See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#5126 - 2014-10-03 09:20:51 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
As a side note, I find the jump fatigue very nicely "scifi". I'm not familiar with any scifi world where instant long distance traveling around would be possible with minimal energy consumption and no side effects like currently in EVE.


Have you ever jumped through a gate while 500 other nerds were simultaneously trying to do the same thing?

There's nothing "instant" about it.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5127 - 2014-10-03 09:22:12 UTC
Gho Higyidr wrote:


Just feels like too big of a step back from modern EVE Online to me. I remember the days before JF's and I lived in Drone Lands during those days. I made things locally but making the trip to empire for the bigger necessities.. wasn't FUN at all. It took VERY careful planning and execution.

words

I could be wrong.. LOL


This is absolutely fabulous. Oh my god, the IRONY. I can't stop laughing. Pirate

Join TheTuskers, travel to exotic distant lands, meet exciting unusual people and ... kill them!

Murauke
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#5128 - 2014-10-03 09:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Murauke
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.


Oh LOL, told you this would happen.

Alliances AKA The blocks have enough capital to buy capital pilots and their ships. Funny how the hammer to force projection has already been thought out and "adapted" to.

Wonderful to see some many negative reactions on this forum as well as the character bazzar and then you read something like this who take it in the opposite direction.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5129 - 2014-10-03 09:23:17 UTC
I already opened my mouth and sounded stupid, so for the sake of thoroughness I'll just complete my thought.

I was thinking that cloakies are being hit a little too hard by receiving the same fatigue as more significant ships (caps). I also imagined they could be used to advance ahead of the capital invasion march I think you want. Cloakies could be used in this expendable way with shorter jump range but less fatigue.

If you would put cloakies through gates for strategic reasons, you might as well use something other than a cloaky, and moving non-cloakies through gates is far more sustainable.

But... now I'm getting way too abstract and beyond my experience. I certainly don't know how fast you want an invasion line to advance.

Call me a dreamer, but if you could be more careless with cloakies, your carriers and titans can bring enough cloakies (along with clone vat bays) to sustain a mobile invasion cloaky force.

As for recreational jumping, e.g. bombers bar, I don't think you're concerned about that, amirite.

...cloaky.
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#5130 - 2014-10-03 09:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Ah...that explains it. I was wondering why Baltec & friends where so adamantly opposed to these changes, even while other notable goons (e.g. Endie's post on reddit) seemed in favor.

While it is true that the CFC holds hundreds upon hundreds of money moons, the truth is that those make up a rather small portion of their overall pos holdings. Moon goo is not what it once was. The number of regular pos's in CFC space, operated by CFC dudes almost certainly numbers in the thousands.

Think of it, thousands upon thousands of towers crying "feed me! feed me!" And the only way to get fuel to those towers is by 5 light year JF. With fatigue. Oh, it will be positively glorious.

It is true that these changes will hurt the little guy, but here's something that defies malcanis' law. You see, pos ownership does not increase linearly with entity size. It is not proportionate. It is not linear. No my friends, some of the bigger entities have far more than their equal share of towers. Twisted

JF's allow a small cadre to manage a disproportionately large number of towers. A nerf to JF's is a dagger aimed straight at the heart of CFC logistics.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
#5131 - 2014-10-03 09:27:23 UTC
Redwyne Vyruk wrote:
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

No one is taking a standard freighter from empire to Outer Passage unless there's an outpost egg inside, so don't even pretend that's an option.


Off course they do. And it's likely 6 non highsec jumps at most. It's happening today and it will happen a lot more in the future.


quite mroe than 6 j


You're doing it wrong. Engaging your brain would help.

I'll drop a hint : none of these non highsec jumps are through a stargate.
Gho Higyidr
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#5132 - 2014-10-03 09:29:06 UTC
Please Turn wrote:
Gho Higyidr wrote:


Just feels like too big of a step back from modern EVE Online to me. I remember the days before JF's and I lived in Drone Lands during those days. I made things locally but making the trip to empire for the bigger necessities.. wasn't FUN at all. It took VERY careful planning and execution.

words

I could be wrong.. LOL


This is absolutely fabulous. Oh my god, the IRONY. I can't stop laughing. Pirate


What's a space ship game without irony, eh? ;p
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5133 - 2014-10-03 09:29:14 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.


but.. but.. what about small guys?!
Grave Digger Eriker
Doomheim
#5134 - 2014-10-03 09:29:17 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

Why would the changes "hurt" anyone? That's not their intent or purpose.

It will change the way people move capitals around.


The effects to carriers, dreadnoughts, supercarriers and titans overall are reasonable. I think it could use some tweaking, but on that front things are basically okay. Not perfect, but I'm not really complaining.

Where it hurts is the effect on jumpfreighters and jumpbridges.

Jumpbridges are essentially removed, rather than preventing their use for crossing the galaxy, it prevents their use even for intraregion travel. This appears to be a change intentionally backdoored under the guise of stopping "long distance" travel. Jump bridges are one of the few real advantages of owning space.

The effect on jump freighters is the big one though, it makes the logistics of living in nullsec far far more difficult. Getting resources from nullsec for sale in highsec and getting supplied from highsec into null depends on the use of jump freighters. This is not something unique to the coalitions, very much the opposite, the coalitions own the portals to highsec. All those smaller groups trying to get by in nullsec? How are they supposed to get supplies? Is MOA supposed to take their 30 man fleet and escort a freighter through CFC space, within hotdrop range of our titan bridges?

The jump freighter nerfs hurt _everyone_ who is trying to get by in nullsec, not just the established powers, and it's the smaller groups who suffer the most.
Can't believe i'm about to agree with a GOON but this is the crux of the problem.

Its the little trading guys trying to earn a living in Nullsec that will be crippled by these JF changes.
No you cannot get escort fleets for your personal trading runs and players are crazy if they think anyone with a Job, Family, life is prepared to spend hours station spinning for a Fatigue (game stop) timer to end.

This required re-vamp should be about reducing power projection not encouraging players to quit the game because some crazy person doesn't know the difference between a job and a game.(crazy as in in-game crazy of course) (P.S. Riot are recruiting)
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5135 - 2014-10-03 09:29:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Any chance we can get the "only 1 jump bridge per system" nerf reversed if we are hitting them with the hammer so thoroughlly with this change? Turn them in to secure "inner-region" travel (offset by the longer journey time) if they are losing their highspeed super-highway function.

Alternatively, can we get some new form of quality-of-life candy for people living within their own space?
DeadDuck
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5136 - 2014-10-03 09:29:37 UTC
Hademar Drake wrote:
Will My jump drive calibration 5 skill points be given back to me , as having the skill any more than level 3 now will be pointless , and it will no increase the range past 5! I just cannot believe by fixing the jump drives your effectively gonna kill off null sec - and capital ships and ccp if you do this along with the rest of your proposed changes - its game over for me.



Hey according with your (disastrous) killboard history, you pass your time in low sec anyway. Roll
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#5137 - 2014-10-03 09:29:37 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
As a side note, I find the jump fatigue very nicely "scifi". I'm not familiar with any scifi world where instant long distance traveling around would be possible with minimal energy consumption and no side effects like currently in EVE.


Have you ever jumped through a gate while 500 other nerds were simultaneously trying to do the same thing?

There's nothing "instant" about it.


Server performance is something else than game mechanics, but even with the inevitable lag and traffic control, it's still "instant" compared to traveling the same distance by conventional means.

Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5138 - 2014-10-03 09:30:04 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Ah...that explains it. I was wondering why Baltec & friends where so adamantly opposed to these changes, even while other notable goons (e.g. Endie's post on reddit) seemed in favor.

While it is true that the CFC holds hundreds upon hundreds of money moons, the truth is that those make up a rather small portion of their overall pos holdings. Moon goo is not what it once was. The number of pos's in CFC space, operated by CFC dudes almost certainly numbers in the thousands.

Think of it, thousands upon thousands of towers crying "feed me! feed me!" And the only way to get fuel to those towers is by 5 light year JF. With fatigue. Oh, it will be positively glorious.

It is true that these changes will hurt the little guy, but here's something that defies malcanis' law. You see, pos ownership does not increase linearly with entity size. It is not proportionate. It is not linear. No my friends, some of the bigger entities have far more than their equal share of towers. Twisted

JF's allow a small cadre to manage a disproportionately large number of towers. A nerf to JF's is a dagger aimed straight at the heart of CFC logistics.

If you actually think this is going to affect us more than the smaller guys, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Murauke
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#5139 - 2014-10-03 09:32:08 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.


but.. but.. what about small guys?!


:) - exactly.
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5140 - 2014-10-03 09:32:29 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.


Called it! Welcome to the new and improved EVE where the big guys can't possibly hold on to all that renter income and small groups will be able to hold space. WTG CCP GRAYSCALE! *Cue laughter*