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It always confused me why the 'Solace' version was the meta 4 remote armor rep, and the 'Regard' version was the meta 4 remote cap transfer, but the 'Atonement' was not the meta 4 remote shield transfer (instead its the S95a, the similarly named version of which is meta 3 for cap transfers and meta 1 for remote armor reps).

Honestly, looking through the naming schemes for turrets and other high slots, they need a simplification. In fact, most modules fall into that category. Wanting there to be some sort of superiority or experience barrier to memorizing which module names, for every single class in the game, are the meta 4 module you want, is simply BS. There's no game benefit to that. It doesn't reward "skill". It simply turns off new players to the game. Obfuscation for no other purpose than "flavor" and forcing memorization of information that is irrelevant outside of the obfuscation itself is nothing but harmful to the game overall.

I mean, seriously, if you guys are playing this game because your gun is called a "280mm Gallium Cannon" instead of a "200mm Scoped Cannon", you're not appreciating the depth that EVE has.

So you really did just nerf the missile launchers, i thought maybe the re-balance thing was going to add something a mid slot mod or something for them but nope just a nerf.


not sure i like anything about this patch.

I feel that this is the wrong course to take. this is a personal opinion, based on a limited time screwing with meta modules. Complexity for the sake of complexity is wrong. but simplicity for the sake of simplicity is also wrong. most players don't use meta 1-3 stuff? most players in anything large than a cruiser use primarily T2 or better. frigates and destroyers, even cruisers, is where those meta modules shine. there's even a tool which already allows players to compare EVERY attribute of EVERY module in a market group, from having found any of them. the compare window is a better tool to deal with it. it sits there, on the variations tab, hardly used. I've dealt with veteran players (not saying anything about their quality, just they've been here a while), who had no idea it existed.

Please, for the love of Bob, don't do this. Let us keep what fragments of the lore we have. Let us keep this meaningless variety, but make it meaningful. As it is, I remember fondly the idiocy i got into with meta 3 launchers, and the beautifully tight fits that only worked because the meta 2 module had one less PG of draw. it's most important for the new-bros. Cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships all have enough space on them that in almost every application, T2 mods live in every slot. the price differences as well make for interesting choices. do you go for cheap, or effective?

and that little bit of flavour that each of those silly names adds?

It makes the game fun. Target painters are a beautiful example of what CCP in years past did.

EvE is a complex game. I respect that you need to get new players into the game. I respect that you are frustrated that it seems like no one uses those modules. but if you look at the database closely, find me a module which isn't fit to a ship.

Don't get rid of complexity, please. Don't take our names. Instead, make the differences meaningful.

Fozzie, this isn't WoW, or WoT. A great many of us like our meta levels, and our other legacy ****. take those balance ideas of yours, and put them under the old names. but don't take flavor from the game. It's bitter enough already.

This

hell, I've been playing and skilling for 3 years now, and my Loki has the most ridiculous hodge-podge of mods to make the fit work.... literally uses up all the CPU and powergrid even after faction/meta stuff... you're basically now taking away my ability to create such fits. Now my Loki will probably no longer work, and even if it does, I don't want to fly some 'ample' bullshit

Fozzie can you please comment on the Light Missile Launcher changes - was reducing the number of meta launchers, and keeping the fitting the same as the Meta0 intentional? The Light Missile Launcher I will have the same fitting as the Ample Light Missile Launcher, so there will be absolutely no reason to use the Meta0 other than cost.

This is a fairly significant nerf to ship fitting for Light Missiles, because currently you can scale your fitting with what your ship can spare, since Malkuth -> Limos -> Arbalest -> T2 all scale with CPU usage, and only T2 launchers have additional powergrid.

Most everyone is focusing on the admittedly dumb names but I think that is the least important problem with this change.

Most players do some ratting. Believe it or not, many even pick up the loot. One of the few excitements to ratting and running missions is finding a valuable item, usually meta 4. From what I'm reading, all that will go away. All rats will drop exactly the same generic stuff, no chance of ever finding anything especially valuable or interesting. Probably most mods will be worth about 10-15K ISK.

What a way to ruin that aspect of gameplay. Honestly they haven't done much with PvE for a long time, in fact I was running some of the same missions in high-sec 6 years ago as I've been doing since I returned to high sec 6 months ago. No variety, no randomness, every mission with the same name plays exactly the same. Anomalies are usually the same also (very small chance of something interesting happening). Instead of doing something to make PvE more interesting for those who enjoy that aspect of the game, they're taking away one of the few parts that added some excitement.

To me this is a much much bigger problem than the names.

Hmm.... looking at co-processors....

After rebalancing:
T1 co-processors -> 1.08x CPU
Upgraded co-processor -> 1.09x CPU
T2 co-processors -> 1.10x CPU

They all require 1MW of PG. Clearly, T2 is always better than Upgraded, which is always better than T1.

So, exactly when would I want to use a T1 or even an Upgraded co-processor, instead of a T2 co-processor?

Because of cost or availability, you say?

In Rens:
T1 co-processors cost about 50K ISK.
T2 co-processors cost about 800K ISK.
Meta co-processors before recent speculation were actually cheaper than T1 - now, they cost more than T1, but still substantially less than T2 (except for the ones which no longer drop - let's ignore them, since they are generally just collector's items). Let's say 150K ISK for Upgraded.

Supply isn't an issue - there are plenty of co-processors available.

Is there really anyone, say at least one month old, who cannot always afford 800K ISK for the T2 version?

Ok, now assume that 800K ISK really is too much for some players.

If the Upgraded price drops again below the T1 price, then it is a no-brainer - every poor player will always buy the Upgraded rather than T1.

How about if it is 150K for the Upgraded vs. 50K for the T1? How many poor players still can't afford the extra 100K ISK to get the Upgraded version? Somehow, I just don't think there are many players who are that space poor.

So, when exactly would anyone use the T1 version?

Hello Fozzie,

I want to say this as respectfully as possible as I know that you love the game and are trying very hard to make a positive difference to it ( and you have many times). However, your statement that we are trying to make everyone memorize obscure names just because we had to is pretty far off.

From what I have read I feel that many here are trying to preserve the depth and immersion that hooked us in the beginning and kept us coming back. These new names takes a lot of that depth away. Maybe you don't see it that way but almost every post in this thread echoes the same idea, don't lessen the immersion.

I have seen may good ideas, from simple mouse overs that show the trait eg. Ample to adding npc corp names to items. There isn't much difference in memorizing what a Creodrone item does compared to its opposite number in your naming convention.

There are a lot of good intentioned people trying to help in this thread please give them their due when making your decisions in the near future.

Thanks

Skill is generally the barrier to entry for T2 modules. I know it may be hard for you to believe, but there are people playing this game that can't fit every T2 module in the game yet...

Anyway, I agree with you on the T1 side. After this change, there literally won't ever be a point to using a meta0 module over an Upgraded/etc module. Then again, there really isn't a point to using a meta0 instead of a meta4 currently either, so that's not really a change, it's just trimming out the other 3 modules that generally get ignored beside the meta0, and in theory giving us some more options for the ones we want to use. I know it'll be a bit of a balancing act for me on the LML side between Ample and Compact versions for a few of my fits (since several are already tight on fitting with Arbalest, which are at 17 CPU each, while the Ample require 21 to the Compact's 16)

I would like to chop my piece of opinion into the T1 vs T2 part that has been heavily discussed further up.

When i know i am a crappy pilot or while i still train i wouldnt dream of putting expensive T2 stuff into my fittings as i have a pretty high percentage of losing that ship anyways. So there is and should always be a need for non-T2 modules for that.

Besides the fitting area there should be a usage for T1 as it is the entry level for every industrialist as well. To have any kind of production chain in T2 modules requires quite a bit of understanding and effort - so T1 modules shouldnt be devalued any further. The latest update wanted an easier entry into industry for everyone which will always be something on T1 level and not the high end stuff veterans like to reduce the game to.

Many of your arguments across the board are fine and valid - i dont question them as a single one. But i do have my concerns when lore is used as a defense. I am role-playing a lot and can only say: there arnt many others who really do that. So using that as an argument against changes that might have an impact on market segments and prices is kind of too easy to look through.

Eve has and will always have the famous 'steep' learning curve - but not because a single modules name has changed etc. Its simply the mass of things where modules are just one part. Generalizing those names and making things clearer is a help but not a elimination of any kind of challenge. The sheer mass of modules, ships, roles, bonuses etc is what makes that a challenge - not that i call module xy instead yx.