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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3861 - 2014-09-03 17:22:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
their suicide ganking operating will never turn a profit


So what? This is a *game*. More to the point, this is a game where we all get to set our own goals. Just because I don't come out ahead on isk doesn't mean what I want to do is wrong.


This is why some of us are guessing this guy is really Divine Entervention (or Salvos). The whole "I can't see why anyone would do anything I wouldn't" thing sticks out like a sore thumb and was evident in every DE post (so much so that it rose to the level of 'clinical disorder' lol).

Same thing here, Veers can't grasp the concept that ANYTHING done in a video game that is within the bounds of the EULA is legitimate. Veers wouldn't do anything that isn't profitable therefor all things must be profitable or they are illegitimate.


Well despite, being accused of being a "Code Alt," "DE," "The Mittani," AND "James 315," (All in one apparently!) I do regret to inform you that this is my only account, and I am not related to any famous (or, in the case of The Mittani (and really who starts their name with"the") infamous) people. And an action being legitimate, does not mean that CCP should not carefully examine the current gameplay, and decide if they are properly incentivizing various conduct.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3862 - 2014-09-03 17:23:34 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:
Veers, congrats. The tears you have produced from Jenn, Remiel and others are rather scrumptious.

Getting severely upset to the point of projecting personal attacks due to someone's opinion on a mechanic in a video game. Gotta love the internet!


Either a liar or an alt lol.

No one is crying, simply point out the madness of another poster. The only reason to ever be concerned in this game is from CCP's actions, not the posts of some unknown dude on a forum.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3863 - 2014-09-03 17:24:25 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
And an action being legitimate, does not mean that CCP should not carefully examine the current gameplay, and decide if they are properly incentivizing various conduct.


How do you know they have not?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3864 - 2014-09-03 17:24:37 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:
Veers, congrats. The tears you have produced from Jenn, Remiel and others are rather scrumptious.

Getting severely upset to the point of projecting personal attacks due to someone's opinion on a mechanic in a video game. Gotta love the internet!


I know. The sad part is I'm not looking for tears or to rile people up. I'm just presenting a viewpoint, and a widely held one at that, which abhors the senseless CODE gank campaign, and would like to make Eve a better place for new players (venture contest anyone?), and for players who don't think the purpose of the game is blow people up, make them cry, and post the tears to minerbumping.com
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3865 - 2014-09-03 17:24:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
some of us are guessing this guy is really Divine Entervention (or Salvos).

de was far worse, and salvos tended to be... abusive


Yes, but it could be a case of the same person having learned to moderate their tone a slight bit, but to disguise their presence and to further his agenda.

I don't know (and without a confession, will never know), but this guy seems awfully 'familiar'.

dear lord

infinity ziona. ace uoweme. divine entervention. pinky hops. salvos rhoska. the pentacle of badposting. it all makes sense
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3866 - 2014-09-03 17:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Jenn aSide wrote:
Steppa Musana wrote:
Veers, congrats. The tears you have produced from Jenn, Remiel and others are rather scrumptious.

Getting severely upset to the point of projecting personal attacks due to someone's opinion on a mechanic in a video game. Gotta love the internet!


Either a liar or an alt lol.

No one is crying, simply point out the madness of another poster. The only reason to ever be concerned in this game is from CCP's actions, not the posts of some unknown dude on a forum.


I didn't see this as worth responding to. Again, this is another example of a carebear validating what they want to see to satisfy some jealous craving for their betters to be 'hurt' somehow. And they call us the psychopaths.

Just ignore the NPCs dude. Except for Sybbil, she's okay sometimes. Especially when she ganks threads with Queen.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3867 - 2014-09-03 17:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Jenn aSide wrote:
Steppa Musana wrote:
Veers, congrats. The tears you have produced from Jenn, Remiel and others are rather scrumptious.

Getting severely upset to the point of projecting personal attacks due to someone's opinion on a mechanic in a video game. Gotta love the internet!


Either a liar or an alt lol.

No one is crying, simply point out the madness of another poster. The only reason to ever be concerned in this game is from CCP's actions, not the posts of some unknown dude on a forum.


Actually that is quite a compliment. You literally do not believe that I could have achieved this much only playing the game for 6 months (which happens to be the truth). Thank you. And no, I'm still not The Mittani.
Paranoid Loyd
#3868 - 2014-09-03 17:26:28 UTC
This past weekend:
CODE killed 26 freighters, the average cost of a freighter is 1.3 bil
The total killed was 69.69 bil
That is an average of 2.68 bil
2.68-1.3=1.38 potential drop per kill.

1.38*26=35.88 in potential profit

Source

While completely ignoring the 400+ bil donated to them, how is this seen as not killing for profit?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3869 - 2014-09-03 17:26:50 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
some of us are guessing this guy is really Divine Entervention (or Salvos).

de was far worse, and salvos tended to be... abusive


Yes, but it could be a case of the same person having learned to moderate their tone a slight bit, but to disguise their presence and to further his agenda.

I don't know (and without a confession, will never know), but this guy seems awfully 'familiar'.

dear lord

infinity ziona. ace uoweme. divine entervention. pinky hops. salvos rhoska. the pentacle of badposting. it all makes sense




OR, it could be that all insanity is related to all other insanity, making all insane people seem like the same motorcycle riding internet badass when they post Big smile
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3870 - 2014-09-03 17:29:40 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
This past weekend:
CODE killed 26 freighters, the average cost of a freighter is 1.3 bil
The total killed was 69.69 bil
That is an average of 2.68 bil
2.68-1.3=1.38 potential drop per kill.

1.38*26=35.88 in potential profit

Source

While completely ignoring the 400+ bil donated to them, how is this seen as not killing for profit?


The freighters are not at the average. Some are quite profitable to blow up, and more power to CODE for that. Others were empty or nearly empty, and there was no possibility of profit, hence doing it for the tears.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3871 - 2014-09-03 17:30:09 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm just presenting a viewpoint, and a widely held one at that,


Err... I know you are stupid, and this is gonna sound crazy, but since you are claiming, try proving it maybe?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3872 - 2014-09-03 17:30:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
some of us are guessing this guy is really Divine Entervention (or Salvos).

de was far worse, and salvos tended to be... abusive


Yeah, and this guys getting gradually worse, and revealing more and more of himself. Look at his latest post going into what's 'socially useful' and some of his others about how he abhors 'behaviour that is only intended to harm players'. Come on dude, that's DE to a T.

this ones literate though(or figured out what the red squiggly lines mean), that's what's throwing us off.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3873 - 2014-09-03 17:30:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
This past weekend:
CODE killed 26 freighters, the average cost of a freighter is 1.3 bil
The total killed was 69.69 bil
That is an average of 2.68 bil
2.68-1.3=1.38 potential drop per kill.

1.38*26=35.88 in potential profit

Source

While completely ignoring the 400+ bil donated to them, how is this seen as not killing for profit?


The freighters are not at the average. Some are quite profitable to blow up, and more power to CODE for that. Others were empty or nearly empty, and there was no possibility of profit, hence doing it for the tears.


There are two kinds of people in the world: those who think in false dichotomies, and penguins.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3874 - 2014-09-03 17:31:53 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
1. I support suicide ganking - highsec would be incredibly boring without it. I just think that there should be proper incentives in place to steer people towards +EV ganks not -EV ganks.
2. I actually think its too hard to kill non-combat ships, and too easy to kill combat ships.
3. I think that a legitimate ganking business should be run at profit - yes. And no, I don't think the isk value of the gank ships need equal the isk value of the target.
4. Also, I support the current wardecc mechanics.

  1. Demonstrably false, you keep trying to get it nerfed, and your opinion on "proper incentives" is irrelevant due to your obvious lack of knowledge with regards to the mechanics involved in suicide ganking.
  2. So you'd be fine with CCP nerfing the hell out of industrial ships and buffing the hell out of the ships that we use to kill them?
  3. Profit <> Isk, it comes in many forms, your tears are one of them.
  4. I'm sure you do, it means that you can disband and reform your corp any time someone wardecs you for spouting your inane drivel on the forums, as you've done in the last 24 hours.

Quote:
Operating at a massive loss does not equal very profitable.
See point 3 above

Quote:
The totality of empty ship suicide ganking is a not only a net loss to EVE (destroyed modules)
How are things being destroyed a net loss for Eve? The entire Eve economy is based around the destruction and construction of ships and modules, without destruction the economy stagnates, a stagnant ingame economy means a stagnant game, which is no good for anybody, including CCP.

Quote:
but also a net loss to CODE and its backers.
How so? Firstly the amount of lols that CODE and their backers get out of it are a net gain (see point 3 above).
Secondly if I'm a miner, and all of the other miners in the belt around me are exploding because they don't have a permit, how am I not profiting from the lack of competition for the minerals available in that belt?
How are CODE not profiting if I then use a percentage of the extra income derived from having no competition to further fund their operations?


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3875 - 2014-09-03 17:32:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


How do you know they are not turning a profit? Equally, how did you conclude that this is their goal?


Well, the fact they have raised 400 bil, have 10 bil left, and have no made no shareholder distributions answers part A. Part B can be answered by looking at the original post from James 315, where he called it an "investment opportunity," so apparently profit was his motive (though he never really spelled out how he planned to profit).
Paranoid Loyd
#3876 - 2014-09-03 17:32:37 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
This past weekend:
CODE killed 26 freighters, the average cost of a freighter is 1.3 bil
The total killed was 69.69 bil
That is an average of 2.68 bil
2.68-1.3=1.38 potential drop per kill.

1.38*26=35.88 in potential profit

Source

While completely ignoring the 400+ bil donated to them, how is this seen as not killing for profit?


The freighters are not at the average. Some are quite profitable to blow up, and more power to CODE for that. Others were empty or nearly empty, and there was no possibility of profit, hence doing it for the tears.


Veers Belvar wrote:
Operating at a massive loss does not equal very profitable. The totality of empty ship suicide ganking is a not only a net loss to EVE (destroyed modules) but also a net loss to CODE and its backers.

Roll Net total gain/loss is calculated by average.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3877 - 2014-09-03 17:33:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
some of us are guessing this guy is really Divine Entervention (or Salvos).

de was far worse, and salvos tended to be... abusive


Yes, but it could be a case of the same person having learned to moderate their tone a slight bit, but to disguise their presence and to further his agenda.

I don't know (and without a confession, will never know), but this guy seems awfully 'familiar'.

dear lord

infinity ziona. ace uoweme. divine entervention. pinky hops. salvos rhoska. the pentacle of badposting. it all makes sense




OR, it could be that all insanity is related to all other insanity, making all insane people seem like the same motorcycle riding internet badass when they post Big smile

who?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3878 - 2014-09-03 17:35:09 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm just presenting a viewpoint, and a widely held one at that,


Err... I know you are stupid, and this is gonna sound crazy, but since you are claiming, try proving it maybe?


Sure - the eve forums are a great example. Look how many posters are complaining about Code blowing up their ships. Look at all the highsec non-pvp oriented corps who want to nerf ganking. Look at the people in NPC corps who want to avoid PvP. Look at the responses CODE gets from miners when they come into a system. You may not like it, but the fact remains that a lot of players (not me) want a much less PvP oriented experience than you do, and are infuriated by CODE's actions.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3879 - 2014-09-03 17:36:38 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Steppa Musana wrote:
Veers, congrats. The tears you have produced from Jenn, Remiel and others are rather scrumptious.

Getting severely upset to the point of projecting personal attacks due to someone's opinion on a mechanic in a video game. Gotta love the internet!


I know. The sad part is I'm not looking for tears or to rile people up. I'm just presenting a viewpoint, and a widely held one at that, which abhors the senseless CODE gank campaign, and would like to make Eve a better place for new players (venture contest anyone?), and for players who don't think the purpose of the game is blow people up, make them cry, and post the tears to minerbumping.com



There, in this post, lies the underlying prejudices I mention.

You don't like CODE. You think some video game actions are 'senseless' despite the fact that video game actions don't need to make sense. You think EVE should be a 'better place for new players' which shows the lack of understanding that EVe has survived this long because it's exclusive of BAD new players ( and inclusive of good ones) and lastly demonstrate a misunderstanding of the 'purpose' of the game.

EVe was created by Icleandic crazy people to be a cold, harsh, TEAR PRODUCING world. You can still find YouTube videos of CCP DEVs talking about tear harvesting. You can still find the YouTube video of the EVe producer saying "eve should make you angry". I describe EVE as an electronic mosh pit. It survives because of what it is.

That's why I play it, despite having no interest in other people's tears. This is the different between my type and your type, I KNOW what kind of game I'm playing, my enjoyment comes not from trying to change the game to suit me, but by playing the game despite not being the ideal pvp'r type. I thrive because I gain enjoyment from DENYING tears to those who want them (while killing millions of npcs because those guys are bad and have nice loot to boot).

Some people seem born to rebel, regardless of whether a thing needs to be rebelled against, and you seem like that type. I despise that type lol. This is a video game, it's here for fun, the rest of us are having fun because we're not trying to crusade for some imaginary space-social justice.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3880 - 2014-09-03 17:36:45 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
This past weekend:
CODE killed 26 freighters, the average cost of a freighter is 1.3 bil
The total killed was 69.69 bil
That is an average of 2.68 bil
2.68-1.3=1.38 potential drop per kill.

1.38*26=35.88 in potential profit

Source

While completely ignoring the 400+ bil donated to them, how is this seen as not killing for profit?


The freighters are not at the average. Some are quite profitable to blow up, and more power to CODE for that. Others were empty or nearly empty, and there was no possibility of profit, hence doing it for the tears.


Veers Belvar wrote:
Operating at a massive loss does not equal very profitable. The totality of empty ship suicide ganking is a not only a net loss to EVE (destroyed modules) but also a net loss to CODE and its backers.

Roll Net total gain/loss is calculated by average.


No, but people who want to make a profit don't intentionally blow up empty ships in an -EV fashion. Plus, CODE has already lost around 390 billion isk - look very profitable yet? They often don't even bother looting the wrecks of their own gank ships, they care so little about isk (I've been able to go and loot them).