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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Solecist Project
#2901 - 2014-09-01 14:48:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
shaun 27 wrote:
on about killboard stats ie killing hulk with a catalyst cost to kill ratios
Killing hulks with catalysts is not only about a green killboard or isk killed vs isk lost, although there's certainly people who do it for that. There's plenty of others that do it because the guy in the hulk is a bellend, for plain old profit, or any number of other reasons.

On profit, if you build and sell exhumers and barges, it's in your interests that there is a demand, so you create one or increase an existing one, either with an alt, or by paying someone to do it for you; consider it a marketing expense.


People realising that building and selling mining barges ...
... in systems where they operate their own ganking squads ...
... actually makes them money.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2902 - 2014-09-01 14:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Solecist Project wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
shaun 27 wrote:
on about killboard stats ie killing hulk with a catalyst cost to kill ratios
Killing hulks with catalysts is not only about a green killboard or isk killed vs isk lost, although there's certainly people who do it for that. There's plenty of others that do it because the guy in the hulk is a bellend, for plain old profit, or any number of other reasons.

On profit, if you build and sell exhumers and barges, it's in your interests that there is a demand, so you create one or increase an existing one, either with an alt, or by paying someone to do it for you; consider it a marketing expense.


People realising that building and selling mining barges ...
... in systems where they operate their own ganking squads ...
... actually makes them money.
lol Who'd have thunk...

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#2903 - 2014-09-01 15:02:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lets go over todays Iteron V bad choices.

Firstly, he chose an iteron V to haul near 400 million in cargo. This was mistake number one, he picked the wrong ship for the job or if thats all he could fly, he chose to not make several trips.

Second mistake is the lack of a tank. Just look at that, not a single tanking mod to be seen and worse yet, the mods he did fit all reduce the tank. This is the classical anti-tank fit.

Third mistake, he was AFK. A sin all to common among haulers and miners alike.

Fourth mistake, he was on autopilot. Now by itself its not a bad tool, however when you are in an anti-tanked t1 hauler with 400 mil in the bay it is just asking for trouble.


This haulers choices are what caused his death, the ganker just happened to be in the right place at the right time and got lucky.


His first mistake was to play a broken POS game like EVE where aggressors have all the advantages. His only crime was not knowing everything about the game.

Its normal the the victims of suicide gankers are newer players who do not understand such things are possible. The question remains whether he will unsub or not now. Certainly not worth the cost of fueling the entitlement of the common suicide ganker. These are the types of players that suicide gankers prey on out of fear of real pvp.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2904 - 2014-09-01 15:08:29 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lets go over todays Iteron V bad choices.

Firstly, he chose an iteron V to haul near 400 million in cargo. This was mistake number one, he picked the wrong ship for the job or if thats all he could fly, he chose to not make several trips.

Second mistake is the lack of a tank. Just look at that, not a single tanking mod to be seen and worse yet, the mods he did fit all reduce the tank. This is the classical anti-tank fit.

Third mistake, he was AFK. A sin all to common among haulers and miners alike.

Fourth mistake, he was on autopilot. Now by itself its not a bad tool, however when you are in an anti-tanked t1 hauler with 400 mil in the bay it is just asking for trouble.


This haulers choices are what caused his death, the ganker just happened to be in the right place at the right time and got lucky.


His first mistake was to play a broken POS game like EVE where aggressors have all the advantages. His only crime was not knowing everything about the game.

Its normal the the victims of suicide gankers are newer players who do not understand such things are possible. The question remains whether he will unsub or not now. Certainly not worth the cost of fueling the entitlement of the common suicide ganker. These are the types of players that suicide gankers prey on out of fear of real pvp.
That "newer" player you're referring to is an 8 year old account. Try harder.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2905 - 2014-09-01 15:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lets go over todays Iteron V bad choices.

Firstly, he chose an iteron V to haul near 400 million in cargo. This was mistake number one, he picked the wrong ship for the job or if thats all he could fly, he chose to not make several trips.

Second mistake is the lack of a tank. Just look at that, not a single tanking mod to be seen and worse yet, the mods he did fit all reduce the tank. This is the classical anti-tank fit.

Third mistake, he was AFK. A sin all to common among haulers and miners alike.

Fourth mistake, he was on autopilot. Now by itself its not a bad tool, however when you are in an anti-tanked t1 hauler with 400 mil in the bay it is just asking for trouble.


This haulers choices are what caused his death, the ganker just happened to be in the right place at the right time and got lucky.


His first mistake was to play a broken POS game like EVE where aggressors have all the advantages. His only crime was not knowing everything about the game.

Its normal the the victims of suicide gankers are newer players who do not understand such things are possible. The question remains whether he will unsub or not now. Certainly not worth the cost of fueling the entitlement of the common suicide ganker. These are the types of players that suicide gankers prey on out of fear of real pvp.


Now he knows not to do that, a lesson an 8 year vet should already know.
Solecist Project
#2906 - 2014-09-01 15:19:00 UTC
"real PvP"

A biased opinion showing that the person only has selfish interests
and does not really understand what PvP means.

Didn't we have that twenty pages ago?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#2907 - 2014-09-01 15:20:25 UTC
The only problem with suicide ganking is that there's too little of it.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#2908 - 2014-09-01 15:33:34 UTC
One question I have is, Why do suicide gankers feel entitled sit on a gate in high sec and wait around for a fat juicy noob to come hauling his entire worth? Not pvp, but merely preying upon the unaware in a complex game, abusing game mechanics to victimize people within the comfort of high sec.

Why should suicide gankers get special treatment when it comes to risk vs reward? And why should these risk-averse players who are afraid of real pvp continue to be allowed to abuse newer players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#2909 - 2014-09-01 15:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
One question I have is, Why do suicide gankers feel entitled sit on a gate in high sec and wait around for a fat juicy noob to come hauling his entire worth?

Because they are Space Pirates, and Space Piracy is an advertised possible profession in this game?

NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Why should suicide gankers get special treatment when it comes to risk vs reward?


Again, in what way do they?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2910 - 2014-09-01 15:37:32 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
One question I have is, Why do suicide gankers feel entitled sit on a gate in high sec and wait around for a fat juicy noob to come hauling his entire worth? Not pvp, but merely preying upon the unaware in a complex game, abusing game mechanics to victimize people within the comfort of high sec.

Why should suicide gankers get special treatment when it comes to risk vs reward? And why should these risk-averse players who are afraid of real pvp continue to be allowed to abuse newer players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times?



Why do you feel entitaled to be exempt from pvp in a pvp game?
Solecist Project
#2911 - 2014-09-01 15:38:04 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
One question I have is, Why do suicide gankers feel entitled sit on a gate in high sec and wait around for a fat juicy noob to come hauling his entire worth? Not pvp, but merely preying upon the unaware in a complex game, abusing game mechanics to victimize people within the comfort of high sec.

Why should suicide gankers get special treatment when it comes to risk vs reward? And why should these risk-averse players who are afraid of real pvp continue to be allowed to abuse newer players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times?


Until you understand what PvP means,
there really is no point discussion about this with you.

You need to get your facts straight first and drop the bias.

Thank you!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#2912 - 2014-09-01 15:43:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
One question I have is, Why do suicide gankers feel entitled sit on a gate in high sec and wait around for a fat juicy noob to come hauling his entire worth? Not pvp, but merely preying upon the unaware in a complex game, abusing game mechanics to victimize people within the comfort of high sec.

Why should suicide gankers get special treatment when it comes to risk vs reward? And why should these risk-averse players who are afraid of real pvp continue to be allowed to abuse newer players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times?



Why do you feel entitaled to be exempt from pvp in a pvp game?


Suicide ganking isn't pvp. In pvp, both players know that they are in the game. Suicide ganking is preying upon the unaware, the noobs, the casuals. Abusing game mechanics that aren't easily understood.

Suicide gankers do what they do because they are afraid of real pvp where they might have to risk something and where people will shoot back at them.

The victim-blaming mentality has become first nature to these entitled suicide gankers who will tell themselves anything to deny the obvious.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#2913 - 2014-09-01 15:49:33 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:


Suicide ganking isn't pvp. In pvp, both players know that they are in the game. Suicide ganking is preying upon the unaware, the noobs, the casuals. Abusing game mechanics that aren't easily understood.

Suicide gankers do what they do because they are afraid of real pvp where they might have to risk something and where people will shoot back at them.

The victim-blaming mentality has become first nature to these entitled suicide gankers who will tell themselves anything to deny the obvious.


As PvP ships dont carry cargo worth boosting, what benefit would be gained in performing Piracy on your definition of PvP pilots?

And are you saying mission runners dont get ganked?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2914 - 2014-09-01 15:50:03 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:


Suicide ganking isn't pvp.


Oh so the people we blow up are infact NPCs?



NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:

Suicide gankers do what they do because they are afraid of real pvp where they might have to risk something and where people will shoot back at them.


So how about the fact that the very kill you quoted was from a member of GSF, the people who risked several TRILLION in ships in one battle.

NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:

The victim-blaming mentality has become first nature to these entitled suicide gankers who will tell themselves anything to deny the obvious.


Who else is to blame for them fitting an anti-tank on a t1 hauler and stuffing 400 mil in the bay and then autopiloting while AFK?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2915 - 2014-09-01 15:52:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
One question I have is, Why do suicide gankers feel entitled sit on a gate in high sec and wait around for a fat juicy noob to come hauling his entire worth? Not pvp, but merely preying upon the unaware in a complex game, abusing game mechanics to victimize people within the comfort of high sec.

Why should suicide gankers get special treatment when it comes to risk vs reward? And why should these risk-averse players who are afraid of real pvp continue to be allowed to abuse newer players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times?



One question I have is, why do haulers/miners feel entitled to protections that they put no effort towards themselves? Why should they get special treatment when it comes to risk vs reward? Without gankers, there is no risk to haulers. That's the bottom line.

β€œSome capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2916 - 2014-09-01 15:54:20 UTC
The fact that CODE is making an industry out of blowing up empty freighters (at a loss), bumping ships to allow for multiple waves of ganks, and doing it all quite comfortably with -10 sec status, shows that something is seriously broken here. Ganking for profit - great, I'm 100% in support (I used to check out the combat kills for the starter corp to see some guys gank wreathes with 1 bil + in cargo). But that's not what CODE is doing, they are ganking just to cause tears, and often doing so at a loss. They don't care to bring up their suicide status between ganks (as profit/loss oriented gankers do), rather they are happy to be career criminals who do nothing other than ganking. The fact that there is no serious punishment for this is absurd. Personally I think anyone with -5 sec status or below should draw faction police within 5 seconds, forcing them to go to low/null and raise their sec status before operating in empire.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#2917 - 2014-09-01 15:56:33 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
The fact that CODE is making an industry out of blowing up empty freighters (at a loss), bumping ships to allow for multiple waves of ganks, and doing it all quite comfortably with -10 sec status, shows that something is seriously broken here. Ganking for profit - great, I'm 100% in support (I used to check out the combat kills for the starter corp to see some guys gank wreathes with 1 bil + in cargo). But that's not what CODE is doing, they are ganking just to cause tears, and often doing so at a loss. They don't care to bring up their suicide status between ganks (as profit/loss oriented gankers do), rather they are happy to be career criminals who do nothing other than ganking. The fact that there is no serious punishment for this is absurd. Personally I think anyone with -5 sec status or below should draw faction police within 5 seconds, forcing them to go to low/null and raise their sec status before operating in empire.


Isk and Tears are the only possible intentions in any activity in an MMORPG?

Fascinating point of view.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2918 - 2014-09-01 16:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
The fact that CODE is making an industry out of blowing up empty freighters (at a loss), bumping ships to allow for multiple waves of ganks, and doing it all quite comfortably with -10 sec status, shows that something is seriously broken here.
No, it really doesn't. it just shows that enough people enjoy ships blowing up that they're willing to sponsor an effort to that effect.

Quote:
But that's not what CODE is doing, they are ganking just to cause tears, and often doing so at a loss.
Actually (and shh, because this is secret!), they do it to earn ISK. πŸ™Š
I suppose there might be some epeen involved as well, but the mighty ISK sure is powerful.

Quote:
They don't care to bring up their suicide status between ganks (as profit/loss oriented gankers do), rather they are happy to be career criminals who do nothing other than ganking. The fact that there is no serious punishment for this is absurd.
Except that there is a serious punishment for them. You just refuse to mete it out for some odd reason. By doing that, you lose all rights to complain about their lack of punishment. You willingly gave them carte blanche to keep doing it.
Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2919 - 2014-09-01 16:07:07 UTC
Why is this still being debated?

Stuff goes boom all the time.

Just roll with the punches and adapt.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2920 - 2014-09-01 16:09:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The fact that CODE is making an industry out of blowing up empty freighters (at a loss), bumping ships to allow for multiple waves of ganks, and doing it all quite comfortably with -10 sec status, shows that something is seriously broken here.
No, it really doesn't. it just shows that enough people enjoy ships blowing up that they're willing to sponsor an effort to that effect.

Quote:
But that's not what CODE is doing, they are ganking just to cause tears, and often doing so at a loss.
Actually (and shh, because this is secret!), they do it to earn ISK. πŸ™Š
I suppose there might be some epeen involved as well, but the mighty ISK sure is powerful.

Quote:
They don't care to bring up their suicide status between ganks (as profit/loss oriented gankers do), rather they are happy to be career criminals who do nothing other than ganking. The fact that there is no serious punishment for this is absurd.
Except that there is a serious punishment for them. You just refuse to mete it out for some odd reason. By doing that, you lose all rights to complain about their lack of punishment. You willingly gave them carte blanche to keep doing it.



Not sure what you are trying to say.....the fact is that CODE is blowing up empty ships. People who are looking to make ISK don't do that - they blow up ships with cargo in then. The reason they do so (as you can ascertain from CODE bios, from hanging out in Uedama, or from reading their blog) is to evoke an emotional reaction from their target (colloquially referred to as "tears.") There is no real opportunity to shoot them....they hang out in dockup, have their scout find a target on the gate, abuse the bumping mechanic to pin the target down, undock and instantly warp to the gate and start shooting. This, as opposed to the legitimate suicide gankers, is pure griefing, especially when used to target completely empty ships.