Player Features and Ideas Discussion

the failure to acknowledge the state of amarr ships in general is pretty disapointing.

pve is 90% of eve so by no means irrelevant for this game. problem is that you can't make a ship good at both easily. i wouldn't mind having some more pve focussed ships besides the pvp ships.

saying that ccp should never look at pve in balancing ships means you focus on 10% of the game, dropping the 90% of what eve really is, a massive multiplayer pve game, because that's pretty much what it is.

i think ccp is finally starting to realize that most players don't give a f about pvp, this is the reason pve is gonna get a lot more content in the future. also stop bitching at people who wanna play eve the pve style, they give you prey, they give you modules, they give you resources and they have the isk to buy and thus keep the market going, if all where doing pvp, eve would have been dead and buried a long time ago...

Is there any possibility of not nerfing the Ishtar specifically? I'd like to just plain see drones nerfed. Not by reducing their stats, but just making them susceptible to electronic warfare.

One of my corp mates was experimenting with using a tracking disruptor on another corp mate's Gecko, and from what they determined, the Gecko was immune. That's just silly. Drones should totally not be immune to tracking disruptors. Or cap drainers (maybe take away the ability to gain cap from them, but leave in place the ability to kill the drone's cap.)

Or perhaps make it so if you can ECM drones and make them lose their target? That way you could ECM the Ishtar next before he has a chance to reassign them again, and they'd be unable to tell the drones who to attack. (So the drones are now just attacking randomly.)

But really I think drones are the problem, not the Ishtar.

Actually he is.
Every Mission, every POS, every built ship, every mined mineral, all money, every deadspace module etc. Everything comes frome PVE.
PVP is important, yes! But look at what people are doing 90% of the time (me=99% of the time). Thats pve, not pvp.

Ship balance in pvp is hard to achieve. Still you could say: there are 2-3 viable ships for pvp, why need more-? The same argument goes for pve.
It is nice to have many different viable ships for pve and pvp, but not entirely necessary for a good game.

Why more than 2-3? Because combat has so many aspects to play with and that's part of what makes it fun. Regardless of the difficulty of balance it is still something good to work for.

You also seem to think that PVE is the source of everything. Sure, the player doesn't make the resources themselves, but they have to compete for the best resources, defend their stashes and incomes, compete against others for prices, etc.

Everything you do has someone else's influence on it. And I highly doubt there is any single person who has never interacted with anyone and has more than a noobship and random loot stockpiled. Why else would people be upset with the loot reprocessing nerf? Because it affected their sale volume with another player.

In its simplest form there are about 3-4 aspects of this game. Accumulation if resources, production of goods, transfer of goods, and destruction/use of goods. Given that I would say at most EVE is 25-33% PVE.this isn't WoW where the primary content provider is scripted events and challenges created by NPCs or employees of the company. The vast majority of content in eve is provided by players, who all have a hand (big or small) in the bucket.

EvE (Everyone vs Everyone) is 100% PvP.

When you do missions you are competing with others to complete them faster to get the rewards faster and get all the loot.

When you do industry you're competing to be the most efficient.

When you do exploration you're competing to find stuff first.

When you trade you are competing in market PvP

and then there is the obvious combat.

Everything you do in EvE is a competitive thing against others. You may not think it but it is.

well in a way you a right, but tbh i don't run missions or do exploration because i wanna be the fastest (i'm a hac fan) but because i do actually like pve :). ofc there have been moments when i'm bored of doing the same over and over but somehow, eve keeps pulling me back into it. always stuff to learn, skill or do that you haven't done in a while (even in pve).

i just wanted to point out that there is a huuuuge pve player base that gets flaming constantly from the pvp players/corps for not "participating" in the game, well they do more so then pvp corps or players when it comes to pretty much every aspect of the game besides blowing up other players. yes you can change the pve players with 0's and 1's but this means ccp will lose 90% of it's paying players in 1 go - dont forget how many pve alt's there are - and as said before, it will stop existing..

look i'm not against pvp, never was, never will, i never got angry for being shot for whatever reasons - tbh i laughed at myself at how fast i blow up against pvp players. why? i know eve is indeed an everyone vs everyone game, i realize that i could get blown up at any point just because i am in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that never bothered me either.
i have respect and admiration for good pvp players/corps but it's just not something i care about for myself.

look pve - or eve - will always be a major part of eve, it's what thrives the economy, the backbone of eve imo. most of the fancy mods get bought by who??

mission runners, industrialists, explorers, miners (less so), because dedicated pvp players usually don't have the isk to do so in larger numbers. many pve players fly multi billion isk ships, some get found and killed every day, this way you the pvp player can buy new ships after a loss.

so to have good pvp for you guys, we do need a huge pve style player base or pvp would collapse or make you guys run lvl 4's for weeks :p

ok far enough from topic at this point.

i look forward at what changes there will be in the future for hacs, by far my favorite ship class in eve..
but i would hate to see the ishtar getting nerfed morein the future, it's a pretty damn good pve hull tbh, would hate to get the old navy raven out again, the most boring but useable PVE ship ingame...

Another one that do not get eve.. well waht I coudl expect from someone in a N NPC corp. NPC corp characters shoudl not be able to post in the balance forum. They are usually clueless or just trolling and hidding behind the NPC corp ticker.

Back on topi.. RISE. Why in helll you tought was a good idea to make the ishtar have more cargo hold than ANY of the other hacs when it is the hac that needs it the least??? The zealot.. that is the one that suffers more because it eat cap chargers liek candies is still the poor guy alongside deimos that is the other ship that should deserve larger cargo.


Please.. tell me you were drunk when you tought that the logic dictataes ishtar and vagabond should have more cargo than deimos and zealot.

deimos has had a good tank, and should be limited by how many cap boosters it can hold. Not once have i outlasted a deimos in cap boosters. Plus, they did give the deimos a cargo buff just like all the other HACs (except Sac, from what i can tell). Went from 315 to 415, 100 extra m3. Vaga in comparison went from 360m3 to 415. So only a 55m3 difference there. Deimos got a pretty big bump in comparison.

Deimos is one of the best brawlers and best active tanking HAC. I don't see why it should have some uber cargo capacity. Most deimos i see have null/faction AM and sometimes void as ammo. The rest is cap boosters and nanite paste.

Vagabond has to carry barrage, fusion, emp, plasma and sometimes titanium sabot, plus cap boosters/nanite paste. Using an XLASB fit, i would only have enough room to for 2 reloads of the XLASB in my cargo using navy 400's. Which is not bad, but annoying that i have to keep flying back and forth to refill my cargo after 1-2 fights.

This also opens up cap booster + LSB tanking as an alternative to ASB tanking on the vagabond, since it can finally fit more than 7-8 800's. If you're kiting, you have to fly with MWD + tank running, which will burn through cap boosters pretty quick.

I'm happy with vaga cargo change. Ishtar is kind of sketchy though, since you can just fit a bunch of drones in your cargo, abandon drones, drop drones from cargo, refill drone bay.

Which is exactly what miners are doing. Go try mining White Glaze in Haleima and see how competitive it is to get a reasonable amount. It's PvP just without shooting each other. This is nowhere near outside the box, it's not even crawling it's way through the packing beads...