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[Hyperion] Burner Missions

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Lugalzagezi666
#201 - 2014-08-26 11:22:09 UTC
This is getting better and better... like blood burner needed any buff.Roll Next we will see 20km range on small neuts and conflag s.
At least their resist profiles are (almost) like player ships if nothing else is.Lol
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#202 - 2014-08-26 11:35:00 UTC
We have not adjusted the NOS/Neut range on the Blood Burner at all since they were first deployed onto SISI.

We did add some falloff to its weapons (the older version incorrectly had the falloff set to 4m).

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2014-08-26 11:41:43 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We have not adjusted the NOS/Neut range on the Blood Burner at all since they were first deployed onto SISI.


Maybe people are living slightly longer so actually getting to see the range creep up Lol
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#204 - 2014-08-26 12:03:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Skyler Hawk
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We have not adjusted the NOS/Neut range on the Blood Burner at all since they were first deployed onto SISI.

We did add some falloff to its weapons (the older version incorrectly had the falloff set to 4m).

To clarify about the neut range, it's not that it neuts further than before so much as that it seems to use its neut a lot more aggressively at the edge of its range - previously, when you got to 9 km+, it would only neut sporadically or if you hung around at that range for more than a few seconds whereas now it seems to slap them on you more or less as soon as you stray within 10 km.

Also, when you say you added some falloff, how much did you add exactly? Its certainly landing occasional solid hits at 12-13 km now, which a player cruor with conflag would not be doing. Here's a log snippet for stuff that happened while I was 12 km off the NPC according to the overview:

11:57:19 Combat 797 from Blood Raiders Burner - Wrecks
11:57:19 Combat 163 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Penetrates
11:57:17 Combat 134 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Hits
11:57:16 Combat Blood Raiders Burner misses you completely
11:57:15 Combat 160 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Hits
11:57:13 Combat Blood Raiders Burner misses you completely
11:57:13 Combat 160 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Hits
11:57:10 Combat Blood Raiders Burner misses you completely
11:57:10 Combat 192 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Penetrates
11:57:08 Combat 193 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Penetrates
11:57:06 Combat Blood Raiders Burner misses you completely
11:57:06 Combat 192 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Penetrates
11:57:04 Combat 151 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Hits
11:57:03 Combat Blood Raiders Burner misses you completely
11:57:02 Combat 201 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Penetrates
11:57:00 Combat Blood Raiders Burner misses you completely
11:57:00 Combat 178 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Penetrates
11:56:58 Combat 189 to Blood Raiders Burner - 150mm Railgun II - Penetrates
11:56:57 Combat 213 from Blood Raiders Burner - Glances Off

That wrecking hit took a damage control-tanked daredevil from full armor to ~90% structure...
Luscius Uta
#205 - 2014-08-26 12:10:32 UTC
Gurista seem to be unbeatable with a Worm, at least for me - even with Drone Navigation Computer, Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancher and 'Augmented' Acolytes that thing's way too fast. I haven't used a propmod against any other rats, but the trick was to get them to run into their base so their speed drops for few seconds, enough for your drones to land few critical hits (I gave up on trying that with Gurista burner as its base seems too small for that to reliably happen). Among those I've managed to beat, Daredevil was the most difficult because of 90% webs that caused me to lose some of my drones despite pulling them as quickly as they got aggro. I was also expecting typical rat resist weaknesses on burners, so I used Warriors and Scourge precision missiles on Dramiel.

Using a friend or alt in a Hyena will become a popular way to run these missions obviously. About people complaining that you need 2 or 3 people to finish them without much risk, I don't have a problem with that. Finding one of two people who will help you finish such a mission should be much easier and faster than finding 10-40 more people needed to run Incursions, so there's really no overlap with group PvE activities.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#206 - 2014-08-26 12:41:12 UTC
Skyler Hawk wrote:
11:57:19 Combat 797 from Blood Raiders Burner - Wrecks
That wrecking hit took a damage control-tanked daredevil from full armor to ~90% structure...

In other words almost no one will be doing these mission, i know i'll skip them all the time, not worth doing them.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2014-08-26 12:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Jori McKie wrote:
Burner Cruor
Way overpowered compared to the other, after latest changes:
- Drone ships doesn't work at all because the Cruor priory target is now Drones
- Missile ships doesn't work at all, because you can only run 1x web and your Rockets will hit with like 25% of their DPS
- Kiting does not work anymore because the Cruor now instantly web and shot beyond 12km

Only thing that works now is a passive Jaguar with 2x medium ASB and 200mm AC + Fusion and even with that it is hard because the DPS from the Cruor at 5km is ~320, you can barely tank that.

What might work is an AB Kiter with tank + 14km dual web, need to test that. But honestly that Cruor is way overpowered.


Yeah, both its neut range and its damage range have been substantially increased so if anything it's now a lot harder to deal with. A faction web rail DD can still kill it by kiting at ~13 km, but the faction web is now a requirement rather than a nicety and you need a bit of tank as well because it'll still land a few heavy hits even when you're at that range.


A bit :D, i tested the rail DD, no ******* way
With AB+1x web+cap booster+tank. You are neuted out before you reach the 13km, you can't keep up your AB and your tank
With AB+2x web+tank. You are neuted out before you reach the 13km, you can't keep up your AB and your tank

And even you manage to get up to 13km, your DPS is so bad because you need a hell of tank, not funny. Major problem/difference now is you are insta locked and webbed, the added DPS range doesn't really matter when you can't get to 13km.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#208 - 2014-08-26 13:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Jori McKie wrote:

And even you manage to get up to 13km, your DPS is so bad because you need a hell of tank, not funny. Major problem/difference now is you are insta locked and webbed, the added DPS range doesn't really matter when you can't get to 13km.

You can always use long range weapons, for example light missiles, but the problem is you can't web that frigate at long range, so your light missiles do NO DAMAGE to npc and you're stuck again.
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#209 - 2014-08-26 13:25:59 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Jori McKie wrote:

And even you manage to get up to 13km, your DPS is so bad because you need a hell of tank, not funny. Major problem/difference now is you are insta locked and webbed, the added DPS range doesn't really matter when you can't get to 13km.

You can always use long range weapons, for example light missiles, but the problem is you can't web that frigate at long range, so your light missiles do NO DAMAGE to npc and you're stuck again.


Try another Frig
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#210 - 2014-08-26 13:30:42 UTC
Archetype 66 wrote:

Try another Frig

Not worth it really.
Check rewards that you get from this mission.
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#211 - 2014-08-26 13:58:04 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Not worth it really.
Check rewards that you get from this mission.
Please bear in mind that, as the missions rewards system is dynamic, it will take a few days before they stabilize at the correct level. Expect them to be lower for those first few days.

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#212 - 2014-08-26 14:13:17 UTC
I believe blood is consistently doable in a hybrid tanked wolf (active+passive).

4 AC200 with RF fusion, web, cap booster with 200s (wolf has less than 400 cap), SAR, adaptive plating, 400mm plate, 2 gyros, T2 thermal rig, T2 ROF rig.

Overheat ACs periodically, overheat cap booster, don't run SAR non-heated. Let it reload - 400 plate will let you last through it.

Web can run through neuts no problem, so only use booster to run reps. You don't need to run it during SAR reload.

Took me 2 SAR loads (with reload recharge between) and then some running without paste to down it. Left with 20% armor. 8 charges, almost full AC mag (therefore use overheat if you don't want to go into AC reload).
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#213 - 2014-08-26 14:34:22 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
A bit :D, i tested the rail DD, no ******* way
With AB+1x web+cap booster+tank. You are neuted out before you reach the 13km, you can't keep up your AB and your tank
With AB+2x web+tank. You are neuted out before you reach the 13km, you can't keep up your AB and your tank

And even you manage to get up to 13km, your DPS is so bad because you need a hell of tank, not funny. Major problem/difference now is you are insta locked and webbed, the added DPS range doesn't really matter when you can't get to 13km.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnTftBzEyts&feature=youtu.be

Still takes a stupidly long time to die, but there you go.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#214 - 2014-08-26 14:46:56 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Please bear in mind that, as the missions rewards system is dynamic, it will take a few days before they stabilize at the correct level. Expect them to be lower for those first few days.

So what's the "best" reward for this mission ? can you tell us if we have the best standings and everything ?
Commander Maxter
Rancho Buena Vista
#215 - 2014-08-26 15:05:46 UTC
These missions need to pay similar to Dread Pirate Scarlette since they require a lot of talent to complete. People will lose ships, so when they do complete them, the reward should be good. Also they are probably going to have a very low offer rate. My ideal income is 10,000 LP, 3 mill mission and bonus reward, and the rat should have a 10-20 mill bounty. And that's even well below the pay of Scarlette of roughly 50-60 million.
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#216 - 2014-08-26 15:44:33 UTC
Commander Maxter wrote:
These missions need to pay similar to Dread Pirate Scarlette since they require a lot of talent to complete. People will lose ships, so when they do complete them, the reward should be good. Also they are probably going to have a very low offer rate. My ideal income is 10,000 LP, 3 mill mission and bonus reward, and the rat should have a 10-20 mill bounty. And that's even well below the pay of Scarlette of roughly 50-60 million.
I see your point for sure, but it fails to take into account how quickly these missions can be completed once you have a ship to beat them.

You should find that once the rewards settle it will definitely be a better isk per hour than a normal level 4

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2014-08-26 15:49:09 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Commander Maxter wrote:
These missions need to pay similar to Dread Pirate Scarlette since they require a lot of talent to complete. People will lose ships, so when they do complete them, the reward should be good. Also they are probably going to have a very low offer rate. My ideal income is 10,000 LP, 3 mill mission and bonus reward, and the rat should have a 10-20 mill bounty. And that's even well below the pay of Scarlette of roughly 50-60 million.
I see your point for sure, but it fails to take into account how quickly these missions can be completed once you have a ship to beat them.

You should find that once the rewards settle it will definitely be a better isk per hour than a normal level 4


Sure, but I can generally just run one ship for all the L4 missions. Burners require not only the necessary skills to run those counter-fits, but also the ISK investment to provide the counter-fit in the first place.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#218 - 2014-08-26 16:04:05 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Spc One wrote:
Not worth it really.
Check rewards that you get from this mission.
Please bear in mind that, as the missions rewards system is dynamic, it will take a few days before they stabilize at the correct level. Expect them to be lower for those first few days.


Why don't you guys initialize rewards at roughly the values you expect them to stabilize at, this way you don't discourage people from running these overtuned things in the first place? Will they EVER stabilize correctly if most people won't bother running them ever?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2014-08-26 16:36:08 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Commander Maxter wrote:
These missions need to pay similar to Dread Pirate Scarlette since they require a lot of talent to complete. People will lose ships, so when they do complete them, the reward should be good. Also they are probably going to have a very low offer rate. My ideal income is 10,000 LP, 3 mill mission and bonus reward, and the rat should have a 10-20 mill bounty. And that's even well below the pay of Scarlette of roughly 50-60 million.
I see your point for sure, but it fails to take into account how quickly these missions can be completed once you have a ship to beat them.

You should find that once the rewards settle it will definitely be a better isk per hour than a normal level 4


I think this would be more valid if they were runnable on demand - they're (fairly) far from that.
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#220 - 2014-08-26 18:43:58 UTC
afkalt wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Commander Maxter wrote:
These missions need to pay similar to Dread Pirate Scarlette since they require a lot of talent to complete. People will lose ships, so when they do complete them, the reward should be good. Also they are probably going to have a very low offer rate. My ideal income is 10,000 LP, 3 mill mission and bonus reward, and the rat should have a 10-20 mill bounty. And that's even well below the pay of Scarlette of roughly 50-60 million.
I see your point for sure, but it fails to take into account how quickly these missions can be completed once you have a ship to beat them.

You should find that once the rewards settle it will definitely be a better isk per hour than a normal level 4


I think this would be more valid if they were runnable on demand - they're (fairly) far from that.



Currently on SiSi they pay 5m in bounty, around 2.5m in mission reward plus completion bonus, and around 7k LP. If you convert your LP at 1k ISK/LP. Each burner mission takes 2-5 minutes to run including travel time, so crudely they'd be worth somewhere between 174 and 435m ISK/hr if you could run them non-stop. If you assume conversion at 2k ISK/LP, that goes up to 258-645m ISK/hr.

They're worth doing.