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Dev blog: Size Matters: Introducing Burner Missions

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#261 - 2014-08-15 15:44:42 UTC
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
If you like running around in highsec doing blitzing and other carebear activities, by all means run them to you bleed from Your ears. Personally, I wont go running around blitzing and declinging missions in lowsec, im negative ten and my main motivation for playing is blowing up People like you. As mentioned in a post before, i was looking forward to ccp actually making some pve content that was Worth doing. Putting the Burner missions into the existing lvl 4 pool, just makes them not Worth it. I'm not leaving my pvp, for a lvl 4 scheme/grind/blitz or what ever concotion you have Jenn aSide.

I unliked this so I could hit LIKE again...
Also ear bleeding is a thing now, cool visual
Minmatar Republic
#262 - 2014-08-15 15:52:57 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
If you like running around in highsec doing blitzing and other carebear activities, by all means run them to you bleed from Your ears. Personally, I wont go running around blitzing and declinging missions in lowsec, im negative ten and my main motivation for playing is blowing up People like you. As mentioned in a post before, i was looking forward to ccp actually making some pve content that was Worth doing. Putting the Burner missions into the existing lvl 4 pool, just makes them not Worth it. I'm not leaving my pvp, for a lvl 4 scheme/grind/blitz or what ever concotion you have Jenn aSide.


No aspect of the game will ever be for everyone, it's long overdue for something to be added for those who like missions/PvE. Especially those who don't like the BS type of level IV's (or ships).


I hear you, and i dont mind pve'rs getting stuff from ccp. Thing is, unless you dive into a bulls**** standings spreadsheet wannakillmyselfalldaylong, you will be riding those bs type of lvl iv's. So imo, both pvp'rs that want to do these missions as well as pve'rs that like frigate sized action gets screwed over in the same way.
ChaosTheory.
#263 - 2014-08-15 15:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
If you like running around in highsec doing blitzing and other carebear activities, by all means run them to you bleed from Your ears. Personally, I wont go running around blitzing and declinging missions in lowsec, im negative ten and my main motivation for playing is blowing up People like you. As mentioned in a post before, i was looking forward to ccp actually making some pve content that was Worth doing. Putting the Burner missions into the existing lvl 4 pool, just makes them not Worth it. I'm not leaving my pvp, for a lvl 4 scheme/grind/blitz or what ever concotion you have Jenn aSide.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal..

As I said, it's not my fault you got it wrong. If you know what you are doing, there doesn't have to be 'grinding lvl 4s' to get to these new burner missions. Even still, these missions seem to be a nice change of pace for real PVE players AND other opportunistic sorts, such as the ninja looting community who WILL scan down the players in the missions and find a way to steal their loot, which will make for some pretty epic tears posts on these forums.
ChaosTheory.
#264 - 2014-08-15 15:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
If you like running around in highsec doing blitzing and other carebear activities, by all means run them to you bleed from Your ears. Personally, I wont go running around blitzing and declinging missions in lowsec, im negative ten and my main motivation for playing is blowing up People like you. As mentioned in a post before, i was looking forward to ccp actually making some pve content that was Worth doing. Putting the Burner missions into the existing lvl 4 pool, just makes them not Worth it. I'm not leaving my pvp, for a lvl 4 scheme/grind/blitz or what ever concotion you have Jenn aSide.


No aspect of the game will ever be for everyone, it's long overdue for something to be added for those who like missions/PvE. Especially those who don't like the BS type of level IV's (or ships).


I hear you, and i dont mind pve'rs getting stuff from ccp. Thing is, unless you dive into a bulls**** standings spreadsheet wannakillmyselfalldaylong, you will be riding those bs type of lvl iv's. So imo, both pvp'rs that want to do these missions as well as pve'rs that like frigate sized action gets screwed over in the same way.


Dude

Quote:

Optimo Sebiestor
Intentionally Dense
Easily Excited


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

The missions potentially offer something for everyone. If you are a pvp player, why are you worried about grinding lvl 4s, you shold be thinking of scanning down Burner mission runners to pop them and have an alt come in and steal the loot

And "PVErs who like frigate sized action" should be in faction warfare already. These new missions are for traditional lvl 4 runners to give them something new to do (while of course, as I said, you don't have to be a mission runner to get to them if you are willing to spend some isk).

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
#265 - 2014-08-15 16:00:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Roxide Jamnbam wrote:
Very very interesting. But then this " The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable." OH BUMMER Roll I am NOT a mission runner, but this mission grabbed my attention, but there's no way I'll grind brain numbing missions just for a chance at this one. I know farming missions is bad/stupid/lame and good to make it not farmable. but. There are probably other types of mechanics that prevent farming without excluding non-mission grinders... I hope...
Anyway this looks good.. (for "them") Ugh



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBGbeRncBDw

That guy blitzes missions in cheap ships. I haven't seen him do a mission that takes more than maybe 3 minutes. This is in low sec but it allies everywhere. people who know how to do missions don't end up with numb brain.

If CCP thinks these things won't get farmed, they don't run missions. Systems with multiple lvl 4 agents (of the same faction) clumped together about to regain the "mission hub" importance they kind of lost with the introduction of the SOE ships. Not necessarily a bad thing.


I. hate. missions.
#266 - 2014-08-15 16:06:41 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

also, sig tanking is actually speed tanking. or speed tanking is sig tanking. you cannot separate these things.

They're different when you shoot missiles at them.


if you're sitting perfectly still, yes.

or if you mayhaps go look at the formula for determining damage applied with missiles then it mayhaps become apparent sig tanking =/= speed tanking.
ChaosTheory.
#267 - 2014-08-15 16:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Roxide Jamnbam wrote:


I. hate. missions.


That's Ok, Lots of people do too. I'm not a big big fan of them either, which is why I blitz.

What lots of people don't do is post in threads about pve content when they hate pve content lol.
#268 - 2014-08-15 16:09:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
thoroughly prepared market trade characters have faction standings. in plain english, this means burner missions are not only suddenly open to those who currently participate in PVE. as a matter of fact, market is far more OP for ISK than PVP or PVE can ever be. so, I think doing PVE or PVP for ISK is a mistake, unless you're doing it for capital to work market. as an activity to spend time, PVE is great.

not appreciating the value of standings for market tells me you are teh p00r.

btw, if you like PVP and want to kill something valuable consistently, Incursion fits are pretty ridiculous. "standard" battleship fits call for a Pith A-type Invuln (I checked yesterday, they're 1.2 Bil).

My mind has turned to flying for CODE as of late, and visiting the incursion world has reinforced that notion. Some of those fits are so bling I'd gank on my mains right now.

some of us, like me, are just looking for some AFK brain ticklers with PVE. it's also possible to run level 4 missions in assault frigs just for fun. [omg that convo]
C C P Alliance
#269 - 2014-08-15 16:12:44 UTC
Hey everyone. Thank you very much for the enthusiastic responses in this thread!

It's always a good feeling as a designer when the most common feedback from the community is "sounds good but you should make more of it" and "sounds good but you should let people get to it more easily".

I completely understand why people would want to have these missions accessible from their own dedicated agents, and that is definitely something we'd like to do with similar missions in the future. However since these missions are going to be a bit more profitable than average level 4s and because there's only going to be five of them in this initial deployment, they aren't really suitable to stand on their own right now.
As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.

It's possible that we could attach some of these sorts of missions to a similar system as the pirate faction epic arcs (which also represent some very engaging small ship PVE content) in addition to their presence in the general level 4 mission pool. That kind of addition would not come until after Hyperion however.

I'm also seeing a lot of excellent questions about the capabilities of these NPCs. I want to be clear that these NPCs are evolutionary steps from previous NPCs, not revolutionary.
We have a team dedicated to improving our PVE content authoring tools, which will bear fruit for NPCs and AI in the future. In the meantime however, we are also continuing to improve our content with the tools available to us now. That's why the Hyperion release is featuring these new missions as well as the set of Incursion improvements that CCP Foxfour describes in this thread.

So the upshot for these NPCs is that they will act in a similar manner to some of the other recently added NPCs like the Mordu's Legion asteroid belt patrols in lowsec. The only completely new functionality they will enjoy is that the Burners who use warp scramblers will shut off player MWDs in the same way that player scrams do. These NPCs will not run out of cap, or warp away. Those kinds of improvements are definitely on our medium to long term roadmap, and when we do have them ready to go the burner missions will provide excellent places testing the new capabilities.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

#270 - 2014-08-15 16:14:39 UTC
my interpretation of burners was officer frigates that don't run away. it will be interesting to see what they drop
#271 - 2014-08-15 16:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
FW peeps likely have the state standings to swing out and do a burner.

faction standings. I keep saying/thinking state because caldari and jita, which is the faction standing that "matters" for market (jita).
Altirius Saldiaro
#272 - 2014-08-15 16:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Altirius Saldiaro
Keep up the good work Fozzie. Looking forward to future AI improvements and more challenging missions.

A lot of us want high risk, high reward and low grind. We want PvE to be fun, not boring and definitely not a slow grind. I want to lose ships in missions from time to time because there is no guide or cookie cutter fits because the missions are so random in their scripts.
#273 - 2014-08-15 16:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxide Jamnbam
Jenn aSide wrote:
Roxide Jamnbam wrote:


I. hate. missions.


That's Ok, Lots of people do too. I'm not a big big fan of them either, which is why I blitz.

What lots of people don't do is post in threads about pve content when they hate pve content lol.


You have been doing missions too long. You cannot stop chasing your tail.

I was trying to explain to you my interest in the cake (burner mission) that is buried in mountains of (in my not-so-humble opinion) crap (pve / missions):
I posted my interest and hopefully constructive explanation of why the burner missions fail for me as a PvPér:

Very very interesting. But then this " The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable." OH BUMMER ... I am NOT a mission runner, but this mission grabbed my attention, but there's no way I'll grind brain numbing missions just for a chance at this one. I know farming missions is bad/stupid/lame and good to make it not farmable. but. There are probably other types of mechanics that prevent farming without excluding non-mission grinders... I hope...
Anyway this looks good.. (for "them") Ugh

You responded with what you appear to believe to be a helpful link and info on doing missions. *facepalm*
I explained in much simpler terms that I really do not like missions and will not be doing them. (In spite of the fact that burner missions caught my eye). I know hate is a strong word, but there you have it.
Thanks for the info that would be probably helpful to someone who has their brain wired for repetition. My brain is not wired that way, which is why I like to live in New Eden. If I want to do missions/PvE/repitition, I would play every other game there is. But mostly DOOM.

Fly wild & smart
o7
#274 - 2014-08-15 16:26:51 UTC
if you're trying to pay for an account, I don't think level 4 missions is the place to be...
#275 - 2014-08-15 16:27:18 UTC
Where to start ?, Lets start with a PvP toon.

I’m a player X months old, I have good frigate skill, medium cruser skills and low battleships skills,
I do not have the skills for normal level 4 mission, I would like to do the new "Burner" missions, but I can not do the normal level 4, I need to be able to get past the normal level 4’s, to get the "Burner" missions.

Here is what I would like,
- The agent has the normal “Request mission” button, and a “Burner mission” button.

With this steup, a player can request a normal level 4 mission or a burner mission.
I hear somebody say “ But that is mission farming”.
So what, and why not, most player farm normal level 4 missions anyway, Ok how can we fix this
1 – Set the pay out to allow for the fact that the players are doing 10 Burner missions per hour.
2 – Have the agent use a mission request timer, IE.. The agent will only give out a Burner mission every 5 minutes


Now what happens with the above Game Mechanics installed into Eve

I am a 6 years old player, I have my ways of making ISK, “Burner mission” might not be one of them, and not my main source of ISK, that you can be sure of, ( Don’t ask, I’m not telling, LOL Lol ).
So why do I want ot do these new mission,
1: they are new, I haver being playing that long, I have done everything.
2: ( Main reason ) The challenge, ME ‘v’ CCP, have they come up with something I can not do, ( Don’t think so, lol Blink ).
My knowledge of Game Mechanics, ship fitting, combat tactics, etc.


In Incursion I have come face to face, with NPC that can jam you (ECM) at 75Km, drain your capacitor completely in 1 second at 25Km, so here are a few question you need to ask yourself before you take on a burner mission, Can you kill a NPC while..
- You are jammed, ECM, no lock targets.
- You have no capacitor, completely drained.
- Your top speed is less than 100 m/s, and the NPC is doing over 1000 m/s.
- Can you out tank/DPS the NPC.

If I get acess to the “Burner missions”, I will find the answers.



Epilogue
I am looking forward to doing the “Burner missons” and the new “Scout encounters (Incusions)” in Hyperion. After a few days ( I will need some time ), find me ingame, ask me nicely, and I’ll tell you the secerts.


#276 - 2014-08-15 16:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
the scout missions are live on Sisi right now, they're -not- cake walks like they used to be. you should try them on Sisi before losing a ship on TQ.

it took me 20 minutes earlier today, with 4 nightmares and a scimitar. Otherwise normal Incursion fits with Mega Pulse II / Scorch, which have better tracking...

you literally need half your vanguard gang for scouts now.
The Tuskers Co.
#277 - 2014-08-15 16:31:51 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
So the upshot for these NPCs is that they will act in a similar manner to some of the other recently added NPCs like the Mordu's Legion asteroid belt patrols in lowsec. The only completely new functionality they will enjoy is that the Burners who use warp scramblers will shut off player MWDs in the same way that player scrams do.


Does this mean that players' scrams will not shut off the NPCs' prop mods?
ChaosTheory.
#278 - 2014-08-15 16:32:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.


Firstly, thank you for using my last name in your post (accident you say? i think not! Big smile ).

Secondly, cool, i see where you are coming from. I'm still gonna try to squeeze the most out of it lol.
#279 - 2014-08-15 16:33:56 UTC
that these missions [likely] can't be botted with a navy raven makes me happy
BadWrongFun
#280 - 2014-08-15 16:44:36 UTC
I run missions as a way to pass time, if I can only log in for a little while, or if I am waiting for a job to finish. The standings boosts are nice, too.

I am already thinking of the frigates I will try to use. Even if these missions are perfectly gamed and the results posted to EVE Survival, I do not read EVE Survival. It takes all the fun away! It will be much more fun to learn the hard way.
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