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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] K162 Signatures Appearing on First Jump

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Laurent Jay
Les Petits Pedestres
Brotherhood of Spacers
#181 - 2014-08-09 15:08:32 UTC
-1

When you're at home, the door, you see just one side? ^^ It must be hard to get out :)

Seriously, we'll end up believing that CCP helping only the big blocks and their renters.

We are a small alliance and we refused to merge with a big block, our only way for our guerrillas, these are the WH to the 0.0.

Rather than continuing to make the system of big alliance quieter, CCP should make the sovereignty of unused systems more difficult to hold, and facilitated access to small alliance or corporation. And the 0.0 will be move ...
Fireflynine
Wormhole Exploration And Production
#182 - 2014-08-09 17:11:00 UTC
we get this to fix what the discovery scanner took? take back the discovery scanner or remove it from just wh space
Lando Cenvax
The Nose Picker Clown Group
#183 - 2014-08-09 22:00:09 UTC
I can just agree with most People here stating that it's not thought trough.

A wormhole is connection between 2 Systems. That's fact. And as Laurent mentioned above, having a Door visible only from one side is a stupid idea. That's against any logic and is neither a technical requirement by the game-engine nor balances gameplay.

Proposed Change:
If you spawn a wormhole (as soon as it appears on discovery scanner): spawn it simultaneosly on both sides. Then both sides are in exactly the same situation. That's fair.
Additionally, remove the information from WH-info-window regarding the system at the other end. That makes things more interesting for everyone. Also remove the WH-Name like N123. If you scan down a wormhole, you should have to dive in to get intel, not just easily warp to it.

Also make Wormholes even easier/harder (than it is now) to scan depending on their Source/Destination:
Highsec: easy going
Low-Sec & C1/C2: normal (Standard frig & Basic skills)
Null-Sec & C3/C4: requires some serious skills and faction probes or a scanner frig
C5: requires some serious skills AND a scanner frig (or maxed out skill)
C6: requires really high skills, scanner frig and proper Equipment (faction-probes, scan-Arrays in midslot).
Whatever (Source or Destination) is harder to scan determines the signature-size of both ends of the wormhole. Again, both sides are in the same situation when it comes to scanning it down.

The experienced scanner would probably be able to estimate Destination System by the signature-size of the anomaly. That's a Feature, not a bug.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#184 - 2014-08-09 22:45:06 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Lando Cenvax wrote:
I can just agree with most People here stating that it's not thought trough.

A wormhole is connection between 2 Systems. That's fact. And as Laurent mentioned above, having a Door visible only from one side is a stupid idea. That's against any logic and is neither a technical requirement by the game-engine nor balances gameplay.

Proposed Change:
If you spawn a wormhole (as soon as it appears on discovery scanner): spawn it simultaneosly on both sides. Then both sides are in exactly the same situation. That's fair.
Additionally, remove the information from WH-info-window regarding the system at the other end. That makes things more interesting for everyone. Also remove the WH-Name like N123. If you scan down a wormhole, you should have to dive in to get intel, not just easily warp to it.

Also make Wormholes even easier/harder (than it is now) to scan depending on their Source/Destination:
Highsec: easy going
Low-Sec & C1/C2: normal (Standard frig & Basic skills)
Null-Sec & C3/C4: requires some serious skills and faction probes or a scanner frig
C5: requires some serious skills AND a scanner frig (or maxed out skill)
C6: requires really high skills, scanner frig and proper Equipment (faction-probes, scan-Arrays in midslot).
Whatever (Source or Destination) is harder to scan determines the signature-size of both ends of the wormhole. Again, both sides are in the same situation when it comes to scanning it down.

The experienced scanner would probably be able to estimate Destination System by the signature-size of the anomaly. That's a Feature, not a bug.


Ok, I read it through a couple of times, as I am not sure, I got it the first time.
The question is why make things more difficult for scanners just for the sake of it? What is gained if you discourage people from mapping their chain? If you are looking for a HS to run fuel, is it really necessary to jump through every hole opening them to hostiles coming in? Or are you implying that only elite scanners can do a fuel run, or small corps should just wait a few hours until the elite scanner is on?
Your idea of making HS really easy to scan, but if it is a wandering c5 to HS it would be hard, so that doesn't help much.
I can only think that this would reduce traffic and reduce any desire to scan things.

If I have it wrong, I apologise, but I just don't see the good side.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#185 - 2014-08-10 15:46:53 UTC
I like this idea in theory, it gives added security in W-space while many of the other planned changes are taking some of the security away. IMO just because I know where a hole is, doesn't mean I want someone in the other W-pocket to know it exists. Good job CCP!
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#186 - 2014-08-11 01:22:12 UTC
CCP, at first I thought ... not a bad idea, it has merit. Then we got talking in corp chat and I will say its nice to see the devs have noted that this idea has profound unintended consequences. (holes not being opened in most of K space)

As still others have stated for the millionth time: rollback the previous changes and get rid of the automated scanning in WH space. it should be dark and scary there and unless you are willing to uncloak and put out probes then you will not know half of what is in a system. Make sigs have to be scanned again. That was a great system and stood the test of time. Not sure why you will not even entertain turning back the hand of time and admitting that the old system worked and was better. Nothing I have seen deployed or mentioned works as well as it did.

The only way to make this work is to take away all intel on what is behind that WH and that would make a visually dull game Ugh after all we like being the boogey men of nullsec, raiding from our WHs into the great blue donut spreading chaos and destruction only to return home where the hordes refuse to venture without their local.
Lenroc Elisav
Lenny'S TAX evasion 101
#187 - 2014-08-11 07:39:10 UTC
Make it spawn with first jump or after a set time (5, 10, 15 minutes w/e) and it should be a good change.
Elyas Crux
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2014-08-11 07:47:47 UTC
+1
This is better than the current system, may be improved by also having the K162 appear after a random time period regardless of jumps.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#189 - 2014-08-11 09:17:43 UTC
Because apparently, PvE needed more smacking in wormholes, dont mind crap loot, bad prices and ever present danger. Add more danger!

Unless the anomalies need to be probed or similar, its one-side advantage. When someone jumps it takes you few seconds to figure out, where to warp and catch stuff. Defender can only be - look a hole, a dictor. Time to buy new ships.

I guess thats a PVP. Will SURELY help populate space too.

-1 on this change. With current mechanics its already tough to escape competent ppl. Unless the dscan or anoms are changed, its pointless to even go farm. Or wait, maybe we will just do the 200km warp from the field (you know marauders get stuck so, more distance).
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#190 - 2014-08-11 12:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Because apparently, PvE needed more smacking in wormholes, dont mind crap loot, bad prices and ever present danger. Add more danger!

Unless the anomalies need to be probed or similar, its one-side advantage. When someone jumps it takes you few seconds to figure out, where to warp and catch stuff. Defender can only be - look a hole, a dictor. Time to buy new ships.

I guess thats a PVP. Will SURELY help populate space too.

-1 on this change. With current mechanics its already tough to escape competent ppl. Unless the dscan or anoms are changed, its pointless to even go farm. Or wait, maybe we will just do the 200km warp from the field (you know marauders get stuck so, more distance).



I agree that anomalies should need to be probe scanned, even briefly, it is too much like tethering a goat for the Tiger otherwise.
One could keep things very simple, a two cycle probe scan will allow all the anomalies to be warped to, JUST enough time for an active and alert player to spot the probes and Bug out, the lazy will still die.

You should Never be able to warp off grid to an enemy player in wormhole space unless at some time or other, someone has had probes out.

Maybe in advance, but always at some time..Even a U Boat had to risk "up periscope"

CCP AND CSM please engrave this somewhere where future generations of devs can rediscover it.

With that addition though, things wouldn't be too bad and all the changes but one would have value, but there's a rather large thread about that one I do not want to go on about it here.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#191 - 2014-08-11 13:28:08 UTC
Lando Cenvax wrote:
I can just agree with most People here stating that it's not thought trough.

A wormhole is connection between 2 Systems. That's fact. And as Laurent mentioned above, having a Door visible only from one side is a stupid idea. That's against any logic and is neither a technical requirement by the game-engine nor balances gameplay.

Proposed Change:
If you spawn a wormhole (as soon as it appears on discovery scanner): spawn it simultaneosly on both sides. Then both sides are in exactly the same situation. That's fair.
Additionally, remove the information from WH-info-window regarding the system at the other end. That makes things more interesting for everyone. Also remove the WH-Name like N123. If you scan down a wormhole, you should have to dive in to get intel, not just easily warp to it.

Also make Wormholes even easier/harder (than it is now) to scan depending on their Source/Destination:
Highsec: easy going
Low-Sec & C1/C2: normal (Standard frig & Basic skills)
Null-Sec & C3/C4: requires some serious skills and faction probes or a scanner frig
C5: requires some serious skills AND a scanner frig (or maxed out skill)
C6: requires really high skills, scanner frig and proper Equipment (faction-probes, scan-Arrays in midslot).
Whatever (Source or Destination) is harder to scan determines the signature-size of both ends of the wormhole. Again, both sides are in the same situation when it comes to scanning it down.

The experienced scanner would probably be able to estimate Destination System by the signature-size of the anomaly. That's a Feature, not a bug.


The fallacy is seeing wormholes as a door - until someone uses it its not a door just a quantum level anomaly which then spawns the wormhole when interacted with.
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#192 - 2014-08-11 14:40:21 UTC
Overall this is a good change. It gives something for everyone. For the PVP'ers they no longer have to worry about early wh detection signs while trying to hunt people. For the PVE'ers they no longer have to roll wh's just because someone "accidentally" warped to the wrong signature.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#193 - 2014-08-11 17:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Loan--Wolf wrote:
Mindraak wrote:
I think only time will show if this is good or bad. I believe it will decrease the connectivity of higher class WHs to k-space because people are generaly "scared" of c5 and c6 residents. This may not be true for null sec but definitely is for low and high.

On the other hand it gives you more time to gather fleet members and less time for the recieving side to react if a k162 appears which could result in more kills. this will probably result in me losing yet another moros :)


when i lived in null i was shocked at how many times i heard dont go in that wh it is active

i had come from a c5/c5 so active holes was nothing new to me but it scared the hell ouf of a lot of null bears



I can see null renter farmer bear puppet drone corp / alliance policy: Don't jump into dangerous/deadly unknowns.

This will allow null bears to farm lower class wh at will and also to avoid the dangerous/deadly onesby simply not jumping into them. I can see this really shaking things up in both null and wh space. (?????)

Wouldn't it be easier to just have a station upgrade that you can drop some isk in and it will spawn the wh you desire? It would make things so much less riskier. (less dangerous / deadly / unknown if you will)

This is bad for risk/reward and pvp on the same basic level that the mass/distance featrue is. You're giving null sec folks the ability to pick and choose which wh they open??? O....M......G
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#194 - 2014-08-11 21:07:53 UTC
Say hello to 1500dps rapid light legions and sacrileges in c6 wolf rayets.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#195 - 2014-08-12 08:11:40 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Overall this is a good change. It gives something for everyone. For the PVP'ers they no longer have to worry about early wh detection signs while trying to hunt people. For the PVE'ers they no longer have to roll wh's just because someone "accidentally" warped to the wrong signature.


And rest of people get stomped on? Thats really good change.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#196 - 2014-08-12 11:26:20 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Overall this is a good change. It gives something for everyone. For the PVP'ers they no longer have to worry about early wh detection signs while trying to hunt people. For the PVE'ers they no longer have to roll wh's just because someone "accidentally" warped to the wrong signature.


but as pointed, what if we just close the holes and dont probe them. System shut, gg wp.
Knight TheCross
Forgoten Industries
#197 - 2014-08-12 20:29:55 UTC
K162 not appearing until you've jumped through is awesome! Makes it a lot safer if you scan down a high class or null sec that you're not interested in!

Expand my brain learning juice!
CorranCHalcyon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2014-08-12 21:18:28 UTC
This idea for a change I feel is a good one for W-space. It keeps pilots on their toes. It reinforces the survival skills that you must learn and practice in W-space. All to many pilots either don't bother (They do not feel as though it is really necessary) or they think somebody else will do it.

I feel this will add a good amount of danger to W-space without tipping the balance to one side or the other (Predator/prey).

Well done CCP

On a side note:

CCP I have a suggestion. If you find it feasible, split the CSM into three smaller CSM councils of three or four people. One for Null, Lowsec and W-space. They would all have the same duties as the current incarnation of the CSM does, but they would also represent their own areas of space. Null would have no responsibilities nor any say in W-space or Lowsec. And the other two councils would follow the same guidelines respectively. Also with this paradigm for CSM it would break the sheer numbers that Null Alliances have to control the vote for the majority of the CSM. It would give other organizations to have a primary voice.
IAm NumberSix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#199 - 2014-08-12 23:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: IAm NumberSix
I see no area to ask this specific question related to worm hole changes.

Any thoughts about allowing X Large Assembly arrays for Titan builds?

I know those require Sov, however, taking the requirement off if its inside a WH?

Not sure how much support or dislike there is for this.
Winthorp
#200 - 2014-08-12 23:31:16 UTC
IAm NumberSix wrote:
I see no area to ask this specific question related to worm hole changes.

Any thoughts about allowing X Large Assembly arrays for Titan builds?

I know those require Sov, however, taking the requirement off if its inside a WH?

Not sure how much support or dislike there is for this.


Dafuq.........

NO


Go BIOMASS