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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] K162 Signatures Appearing on First Jump

First post
Author
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#321 - 2014-10-03 18:30:33 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:

Yea, um you did basically miss the key element to this change.

This fixes nothing and does nothing to change isolationist play styles.


Facepalm.

Let's outline it in your format.

Pre-Hyperion

Happily running sites
Me: "Hey guys a new sig popped up."
Corpie: "Quick warp back to the POS, if we scan fast enough we might catch whoever is coming through"

Post-Hyperion

Happily running sites

Me: "Hey guys a new sig popped up."
Corpie: "Quick warp back to the PO... oh crap fleet landing we're dead. How did they get here so fast?"
Me: "Oh yea, because the sig doesnt show up until AFTER they jump through, giving the attackers precious extra seconds to hopefully get a jump on us site runners"

This change was never about your ability to roll your active WH's and lock yourself inside. It was about giving potential roaming gangs extra time to find and warp to you before you noticed the new sig pop up.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#322 - 2014-10-03 22:11:02 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:

Yea, um you did basically miss the key element to this change.

This fixes nothing and does nothing to change isolationist play styles.


Facepalm.

Let's outline it in your format.

Pre-Hyperion

Happily running sites
Me: "Hey guys a new sig popped up."
Corpie: "Quick warp back to the POS, if we scan fast enough we might catch whoever is coming through"

Post-Hyperion

Happily running sites

Me: "Hey guys a new sig popped up."
Corpie: "Quick warp back to the PO... oh crap fleet landing we're dead. How did they get here so fast?"
Me: "Oh yea, because the sig doesnt show up until AFTER they jump through, giving the attackers precious extra seconds to hopefully get a jump on us site runners"

This change was never about your ability to roll your active WH's and lock yourself inside. It was about giving potential roaming gangs extra time to find and warp to you before you noticed the new sig pop up.


You illustrated how you missed my point far better than I ever could. Next time you want to be smug, do it from a properly informed standpoint. Because clearly I do it better than you.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#323 - 2014-10-03 22:35:58 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:


You illustrated how you missed my point far better than I ever could. Next time you want to be smug, do it from a properly informed standpoint. Because clearly I do it better than you.


Yes you are clearly better at being wrong than I am. You win.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#324 - 2014-10-03 22:54:54 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:


You illustrated how you missed my point far better than I ever could. Next time you want to be smug, do it from a properly informed standpoint. Because clearly I do it better than you.


Yes you are clearly better at being wrong than I am. You win.


Dude, public discourse platform such as this forum isn't about bob damned winning. It's about having an honest discourse of information and exchanging information. You shitting the boards up with antagonistic posts doesn't help that. I told you what an isolationist PVE focused corp will do to protect their PVE operations to counter these changes and you made wholly incorrect assumptions as to what I was saying. The fact is what you said had no bearing in the slightest as to what I was saying.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#325 - 2014-10-03 23:04:45 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:


You illustrated how you missed my point far better than I ever could. Next time you want to be smug, do it from a properly informed standpoint. Because clearly I do it better than you.


Yes you are clearly better at being wrong than I am. You win.


Dude, public discourse platform such as this forum isn't about bob damned winning. It's about having an honest discourse of information and exchanging information. You shitting the boards up with antagonistic posts doesn't help that. I told you what an isolationist PVE focused corp will do to protect their PVE operations to counter these changes and you made wholly incorrect assumptions as to what I was saying. The fact is what you said had no bearing in the slightest as to what I was saying.


Except that it does.

You are correct an isolationist corp can lock themselves inside their WH the same way as before. But that is not what this change was about.

Pre Hyperion a would be ganker roaming WH could NEVER get inside the isolationists locked down WH without notice since the new k162 would appear as soon as he WARPED to the other side. In most cases the isolationists would see the new k162 sig before the would be ganker even jumps through.

Post Hyperion the would be ganker can ALWAYS get inside the isolationists home at least at the same time the new sig warning shows up.

What does this mean? It means if the isolationists miss the new sig forming for 30-60 seconds, which is plausible if they rely on the discovery scanner, it is very possible the would be ganker will be able to land on grid before the warning bells go up.

I hardly call that having no bearing in the slightest.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#326 - 2014-10-04 00:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: scorchlikeshiswhiskey
K holes post-Hyperion have the same risk factor as K-holes pre-Hyperion, nothing has changed. You can't roll a K-hole that hasn't spawned since it isn't there, and when it does show up you still are able to roll it assuming you think you can do it safely. Also, if you're paying attention and are flying properly you still have enough time to get back to the POS, this is just a little harder on the afk or semi-afk players.

As for good/bad change:
Good- Nothing has really changed about K-holes for being on the receiving end.. Really. If you're pre-aligned, moving, etc then you will still likely get away. However, I think that K-holes are much better now from the perspective of the hunter, it allows hunters the ability to pre-plan the jump into the hole when they are able to see what it is first. (Knowing that I'm jumping a scout into a Class X allows me to have a better fleet waiting as backup rather than having everyone in general ships while the scout jumps into an unknown.)
Bad- The default spawn timer is set far too long and the result is that, as has already been observed in this thread, the certainty of content in a given K-hole spawn is greatly decreased and makes it a lot less "fun" to see one spawn. My reasoning being that, as had been previously said, there are far too many times where you scout a freshly spawned K hole only to find that it is completely devoid of content because the roamer was being choosy and is long gone. Pre-Hyperion there was still the chance of catching the roamers even if they decided to move on whereas now there is a good chance they are logged off and asleep already.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#327 - 2014-10-04 01:13:13 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
However, I think that K-holes are much better now from the perspective of the hunter,


And this is the only key point.

The ONLY reason CCP decided to change k162 spawns was to in some small way counteract the discovery scanner.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#328 - 2014-10-04 01:30:17 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:


You illustrated how you missed my point far better than I ever could. Next time you want to be smug, do it from a properly informed standpoint. Because clearly I do it better than you.


Yes you are clearly better at being wrong than I am. You win.


Dude, public discourse platform such as this forum isn't about bob damned winning. It's about having an honest discourse of information and exchanging information. You shitting the boards up with antagonistic posts doesn't help that. I told you what an isolationist PVE focused corp will do to protect their PVE operations to counter these changes and you made wholly incorrect assumptions as to what I was saying. The fact is what you said had no bearing in the slightest as to what I was saying.


Except that it does.

You are correct an isolationist corp can lock themselves inside their WH the same way as before. But that is not what this change was about.

Pre Hyperion a would be ganker roaming WH could NEVER get inside the isolationists locked down WH without notice since the new k162 would appear as soon as he WARPED to the other side. In most cases the isolationists would see the new k162 sig before the would be ganker even jumps through.

Post Hyperion the would be ganker can ALWAYS get inside the isolationists home at least at the same time the new sig warning shows up.

What does this mean? It means if the isolationists miss the new sig forming for 30-60 seconds, which is plausible if they rely on the discovery scanner, it is very possible the would be ganker will be able to land on grid before the warning bells go up.

I hardly call that having no bearing in the slightest.


Bro do you even sleeper? Anyone who isn't a vegetable is aligned out or capable of warping off before you can even enter warp once the signature is populated. It makes 0 difference.

Also, nice flip flop in the first two sentences.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#329 - 2014-10-04 02:48:25 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Bro do you even sleeper? Anyone who isn't a vegetable is aligned out or capable of warping off before you can even enter warp once the signature is populated. It makes 0 difference.

Also, nice flip flop in the first two sentences.


I do fine thanks for the concern. But over the years there are apparently plenty of vegetables in WH space.

But hey, at least you are finally on topic for this thread.
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
#330 - 2014-10-14 16:41:58 UTC
Small guy review:
7/10
Grumpy "yeah yeah"
The feature is good. Problem: guy in Insmother scans system, look a wormhole, no it says unknown space and not low sec, dang it next system. One hour later, in J246942: new sig/run for your life, scan, a hole! Warp, jump, nobody.
Suggested improvement: remove insta-sigs. Make people have active probes.

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"