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EVE has a problem with its reputation. What can or should be done?

First post
Author
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2014-07-15 00:32:14 UTC
Nathaniel Raynaud wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
even a goon


Predjudice is the most poisonous thing that currently exists in the game


why do people hate goons so much, anyway.


Well basically everything that every prominent goon has said has been twisted completely out of context (please refer to the practice of adding bullshit to your argument in an attempt to give it more weight) & sheeple (otherwise known as the masses) gobble it all up & add in their own crap on top of it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-07-15 00:32:40 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Nathaniel Raynaud wrote:
Myxx wrote:
Nathaniel Raynaud wrote:
isn't all that part of the appeal? eve isn't for everyone, and it's not possible to change that without completely changing the core dynamics and tone of the game. but there are plenty of "sociopathic basement-dwellers who use mindgames to screw over the other nutjobs" who relish a game that challenges them from the start and just want to be mean to people in space.



Its OK but only to a point. In the end, it amounts to less people for me to sell stuff to, less people for you to pew pew, and less people for others to do awful things to. Its bad for me, its bad for you. How bad is it before its intolerable?


i can see where you're coming from, and it's definitely a problem that'd be better solved thru spreading awareness of the groups in eve that work to provide a gentler newbie experience (i'm thinking mainly of the eve university people, who run a pretty useful wiki and seem generally nice) than making any alterations to eve's actual gameplay.




Nowhere did I suggest changing gameplay. More to the point, I am pointing at parts of the EVE community that might be doing more harm than good in the long run. I'm personally more of the mind that putting social pressure on them to stop doing harm to EVE is probably a better way to go about it.

Gameplay changes that might be a good idea are outside the scope of this post.


What I love about retards like the OP is that they leave out the other half of the story.

The people like Chribba and RvB who both are very good for a community.
The part where the huge fights go to RL news and create a nice influx of new players.
The part where the community steps up together to raise funds in case of a horrible disaster in RL.


Yeah, we sure do have a ****** community.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2014-07-15 00:33:01 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Quote:


I hate to sound jaded myself, but this has always been the case in my eyes. "We can't interfere with the sandbox!!!" Bullshit - CCP has slowly nudged the line in the sand plenty of times, and never in a newbie-friendly direction IMHO.

CCP is so terrified of being compared to any other MMO and losing it's 'unique' status, it won't even consider adding the elements of it's competition that would be actually good for the game.

Newbie starting zones, anti-griefing areas, etc. Really, f**k it - lets just get rid of 'griefing' altogether. I'm not talking about ganking for profit/war, mind you - I mean actively using game mechanics to harass another player's gameplay. You can try to forum warrior that statement all you like - and you will - but we both know what I'm talking about.

You actively harass a player through chat/voice/mail? Temp ban. Do it again? 3 month. Again? Perma.
Repeatedly suicide-gank the same player while they are mining/missioning in HS? Perma.
Attempt to use game mechanics or CCP Policy in a manner unintended in order to harass players? Perma.
BONUS: Forum trolling? Temp. Do it again? Perma from forums.

Don't like it? Hell, it's been working fine for all the other companies for a long time.

Video tutorials - how the **** do we not have these? Newbie starting zones - how the **** do we not have these? "Battleground" type PvP - dear god almighty, HOW DO WE NOT HAVE THIS?

/rant


If they started handing out bans like that EVE would be a better place.


People would just use more alts.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#124 - 2014-07-15 00:33:07 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:

Video tutorials - how the **** do we not have these?

Because you havent made them yet

Oh wait, they do exist

Remember the scanning videos people made?
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Newbie starting zones - how the **** do we not have these?

We do.
Coffee Rocks wrote:
"Battleground" type PvP - dear god almighty, HOW DO WE NOT HAVE THIS?

Because that would be tedium

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#125 - 2014-07-15 00:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina Project
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
OP is artificial.
Not really expressing herself honestly.
Very distanced from herself in her writings.


I read a hypocrit and dishonest person, hiding her high nose
behind sentences she does not use all day and she does not
want you to realize her true intentions.



Not that telling you lot would help anything anyway. shrug



I also sense they have Pluto in Gemini squaring Saturn with an afflicted Moon in Scorpio.

I would do a deeper analysis but I have to go channel Robbie Burns reciting poetry in Scot Dialect now.
Just because you're clueless doesn't mean everybody is.

I bet you don't believe your car mechanic either,
when he tells you what's wrong with your car.

Oh wait, you understand the fact that cars are working SOMEHOW, so I guess that's not comparable.
Too bad you don't realize that you don't know everything.


Keep staying clueless, always keep posting, it's hilarious to read about you.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-07-15 00:34:45 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Quote:


I hate to sound jaded myself, but this has always been the case in my eyes. "We can't interfere with the sandbox!!!" Bullshit - CCP has slowly nudged the line in the sand plenty of times, and never in a newbie-friendly direction IMHO.

CCP is so terrified of being compared to any other MMO and losing it's 'unique' status, it won't even consider adding the elements of it's competition that would be actually good for the game.

Newbie starting zones, anti-griefing areas, etc. Really, f**k it - lets just get rid of 'griefing' altogether. I'm not talking about ganking for profit/war, mind you - I mean actively using game mechanics to harass another player's gameplay. You can try to forum warrior that statement all you like - and you will - but we both know what I'm talking about.

You actively harass a player through chat/voice/mail? Temp ban. Do it again? 3 month. Again? Perma.
Repeatedly suicide-gank the same player while they are mining/missioning in HS? Perma.
Attempt to use game mechanics or CCP Policy in a manner unintended in order to harass players? Perma.
BONUS: Forum trolling? Temp. Do it again? Perma from forums.

Don't like it? Hell, it's been working fine for all the other companies for a long time.

Video tutorials - how the **** do we not have these? Newbie starting zones - how the **** do we not have these? "Battleground" type PvP - dear god almighty, HOW DO WE NOT HAVE THIS?

/rant


If they started handing out bans like that EVE would be a better place.


If they started handing out bans like that then it wouldn't be EVE anymore, it would be any other MMO with a spaceship re-skin.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
#127 - 2014-07-15 00:36:09 UTC
I play this game because we are allowed to be the dregs of society here. The terrible reputation is what sold me on a trial account, and the cracked article from years ago about greatest video game heists. I hope eve continues to grow in its niche of being the greatest terrible game.

Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#128 - 2014-07-15 00:37:05 UTC
You know, forget banning for imaginary "griefing" of the special snowflakes, I just want them to start doing something about real life threats.

That way they can ban the guy who told me that he would find out where my parents lived and push my mom down the stairs because I told him he should get a permit. Note, I did not actually *do* anything, I just suggested they get a mining permit.

Hey Chewytowel! What do you think about banning actual offenses like that one, instead of imaginary ones like you're talking about?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#129 - 2014-07-15 00:38:26 UTC
Radelix Cisko wrote:
I play this game because we are allowed to be the dregs of society here. The terrible reputation is what sold me on a trial account, and the cracked article from years ago about greatest video game heists. I hope eve continues to grow in its niche of being the greatest terrible game.


You're allowed to be whatever you want to be. Some people are good at being bad, others are bad at being good & think the game should be changed for them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Nathaniel Raynaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-07-15 00:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathaniel Raynaud
Radelix Cisko wrote:
I play this game because we are allowed to be the dregs of society here. The terrible reputation is what sold me on a trial account, and the cracked article from years ago about greatest video game heists. I hope eve continues to grow in its niche of being the greatest terrible game.


both this post and your signature are top notch, especially when viewed in conjunction with each other
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-07-15 00:39:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You know, forget banning for imaginary "griefing" of the special snowflakes, I just want them to start doing something about real life threats.


They already do.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#132 - 2014-07-15 00:39:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You know, forget banning for imaginary "griefing" of the special snowflakes, I just want them to start doing something about real life threats.

That way they can ban the guy who told me that he would find out where my parents lived and push my mom down the stairs because I told him he should get a permit. Note, I did not actually *do* anything, I just suggested they get a mining permit.

Hey Chewytowel! What do you think about banning actual offenses like that one, instead of imaginary ones like you're talking about?
This really hits the nail on the head.

These hypocrits always talk about how bad we are,
completely ignoring all the actual hatred coming from people who make themselves targets.


Hypocrits, just like the OP.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]

Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2014-07-15 00:40:10 UTC
Quote:


Well, I am glad to see you agree. The first time it happened to me I was totally confused. My only real question was.. the boar didn't stick all of that gold in itself.. so who was the sick person who stuffed that boar full of money? Theres only like..so many holes in a boar.. so who thought.. "hey, you know what? I should totally stuff this boar full of money.."? I mean.. seriously.. Its like.. dude.. right?

So then later on.. I see a huge boar.. walking on its back legs and holding an axe. Scary as **** right, so I thought.. dude.. what if the huge man-boar was the one who did that to that other boar? What if the smaller boar was the bigger boars purse that came to life.. and I murdered it and stole this big boars money? I felt bad and ran around in circles flinging all the money out of my wallet onto the ground. You know what happened? The big man-boar killed me. Yep.. hacked me with an axe. I probably deserved it, I killed his purse with his demon sword.

Im an awful person.


The boar wasn't his purse come to life but merely his teenage girlfriend heading out to go shopping. You see earlier that day the big man-boar gave the demon sword to his mistress to sell on the open market, as well as to buy some sharpening stones for his axe. When he came upon his mistress who you so willingly sliced to pieces he was filled with grief and rage and went out to seek justice for his loss. Upon finding you throwing the money all over the ground he thought you were clearly attempting to bribe him and that sent him into a massive rage...thus the hacking with an axe.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#134 - 2014-07-15 00:40:34 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You know, forget banning for imaginary "griefing" of the special snowflakes, I just want them to start doing something about real life threats.


They already do.


Not if someone says it about CODE, they don't.

"If you feel threatened, please contact your local law enforcement so they can laugh at you and do nothing". Paraphrased slightly.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2014-07-15 00:45:37 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Quote:


I hate to sound jaded myself, but this has always been the case in my eyes. "We can't interfere with the sandbox!!!" Bullshit - CCP has slowly nudged the line in the sand plenty of times, and never in a newbie-friendly direction IMHO.

CCP is so terrified of being compared to any other MMO and losing it's 'unique' status, it won't even consider adding the elements of it's competition that would be actually good for the game.

Newbie starting zones, anti-griefing areas, etc. Really, f**k it - lets just get rid of 'griefing' altogether. I'm not talking about ganking for profit/war, mind you - I mean actively using game mechanics to harass another player's gameplay. You can try to forum warrior that statement all you like - and you will - but we both know what I'm talking about.

You actively harass a player through chat/voice/mail? Temp ban. Do it again? 3 month. Again? Perma.
Repeatedly suicide-gank the same player while they are mining/missioning in HS? Perma.
Attempt to use game mechanics or CCP Policy in a manner unintended in order to harass players? Perma.
BONUS: Forum trolling? Temp. Do it again? Perma from forums.

Don't like it? Hell, it's been working fine for all the other companies for a long time.

Video tutorials - how the **** do we not have these? Newbie starting zones - how the **** do we not have these? "Battleground" type PvP - dear god almighty, HOW DO WE NOT HAVE THIS?

/rant


If they started handing out bans like that EVE would be a better place.


Nope. It wouldn't be around long enough for it to become your 'better place'. What works for other companies and other games doesn't work for EVE, because EVE is INTENDED to work against the grain of what players can expect. That's where its appeal lies. Don't know why it's so hard for you to understand that EVE isn't every other game on the market.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2014-07-15 00:48:31 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Yeah.. sorry about that. It just irritates me soooo much that a lvl 1 Boar will drop a lvl 15 Under Demon Sword for like.. no reason. I mean.. you don't see the sword on the boar. Nothing. It doesn't even have a backpack, or magic bag of holding on it. But sure enough.. you kill it, and POP! Out comes gold and weaponry like some kind of piñata. Here I was, happy to be a Night Elf and totally immersed in my game.. and then physics and reality go right out the window with this random drop. I could totally see a level 10 boss mob dropping an Under Demon Sword.. totally, but a boar??!?! Come on now.... that's.. that's just wrong and you know it.


Idk what to make of this...


Well, I am glad to see you agree. The first time it happened to me I was totally confused. My only real question was.. the boar didn't stick all of that gold in itself.. so who was the sick person who stuffed that boar full of money? Theres only like..so many holes in a boar.. so who thought.. "hey, you know what? I should totally stuff this boar full of money.."? I mean.. seriously.. Its like.. dude.. right?

So then later on.. I see a huge boar.. walking on its back legs and holding an axe. Scary as **** right, so I thought.. dude.. what if the huge man-boar was the one who did that to that other boar? What if the smaller boar was the bigger boars purse that came to life.. and I murdered it and stole this big boars money? I felt bad and ran around in circles flinging all the money out of my wallet onto the ground. You know what happened? The big man-boar killed me. Yep.. hacked me with an axe. I probably deserved it, I killed his purse with his demon sword.

Im an awful person.


You have been watching Scott Pilgrim vs The World haven't you.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2014-07-15 00:53:47 UTC
This thread reminds me of my experience with my work friend. I tried over the course of several weekends to help him acclimate himself to EVE. The type of MMO he plays is very different (Defiance) so he told me that EVE seemed very slow. I tried not to give him any formulas for play to blindly try. I told him about things that are important in the game and tried to be a "live Aura" for him so that he could step through the tutorial.

He didn't want to read about Skills. He really didn't want to experiment with the fitting window. One of the first tutorial missions gave him a turret but no ammunition, and it was an inconvenience for him to spend any of his 5,000 ISK on some bit of ammo. He'd minimized all the chat windows (they were always filled with spam or meaningless jabber in Defiance).

I really couldn't figure it out.. I felt like I was talking jibberish because he'd tune out when I'd try to explain game mechanics to him. If he ever figured out how to undock in a Venture, it would be very likely he'd have no clue if a Catalyst came and blasted him to bits.

I admit I was pretty wide eyed and clueless for a few days, but I remember asking questions nonstop. After burning through a 21-day trial of accomplishing nothing, he's made it halfway through a regular 14 day one having finished training Repair Systems I (he never went back to his Skill Queue, not for lack of me trying to direct him back to it).

It felt very much like I'm trying to speak in a foreign language to somebody who doesn't understand a word I'm saying. My friend plays a lot of Minecraft, building elaborate things that I think I wouldn't have a clue (or the patience) to build. So I can't really explain what happened.

I have to suspect that experiences like his are not uncommon. Of course players like him are totally incompatible to the game.

I can see how I would stop playing EVE if it were somehow changed to cater to him. Does that make my view toxic or unwelcoming?

I think a lot of people have problems with how the EVE community says things on the forum. People should get over that and look at what the community is saying.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#138 - 2014-07-15 00:57:52 UTC
Sounds like he had a weak willie Sybil.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#139 - 2014-07-15 01:00:51 UTC
Defiance isn't *that* bad (particularly for a game with no subscription fee).

But it's basically violenceporn. Highly appealing if you have no attention span.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2014-07-15 01:01:49 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Jen Takhesis wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied.


Wait...wut? Do you ever read what gets posted in these forums?
Imagine how bad it would be if the stupid and weak willed weren't excluded. I've seen the forums of other games, by comparison the Eve forums are a paragon of good posting.


this is, sadly, very true. Most other forums are sperg-filled rage zones of shiptoasting of the worst kind. Our most terrible trolls look thoughtful and deeply philosophical compared to some of the utter detritus on them.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.