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EVE has a problem with its reputation. What can or should be done?

First post
Author
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-07-14 23:53:36 UTC
Also, most of the comments in the OP are based on bullshit. "This is what I think of a game that I've never played" is not a reputation, it's an uninformed opinion at best, and misinformation at worst. And it's the same for all of those comments.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#82 - 2014-07-14 23:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:

If the Goons invite you to join their club and then they AWOX you, yeah that is a valid excuse to leave as well. Or perhaps a valid reason to never even bother playing at all.
If you're dumb enough to take them up on the offer without doing any further research, especially with their reputation, then you deserve everything you get.

It's like trusting Bernie Madoff with your pension fund.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2014-07-14 23:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Okay, let's be 100% honest and straightforward for a moment. As a whole, on the gameplay level, this game is ******* terrible. It's slow, it's borderline mindnumbing, it's tedious, it's skill queue online, it's got one of the most wonky and ridiculous physics engines ever conceived (though that's been getting better), it's challenge level is borderline laughable once you get past the first couple of weeks so long as you aren't doing anything stupid like trying to do L4 missions in a Burst...I'll stop there, but you get my point.



Lets compare EVE combat with something like a WWII flightsim like IL2 online.

Flightsim
Your flying a simulation of a WWII German fighter with a huge learning curve because it actually IS a simulation of a historically difficult aircraft to fly. You have banked into a tight turn and as you pull back on the force feed back stick to pull the plane even tighter the stick begins to shudder as you approach stall and the wing slats bang open. You slam the Hotas throttle forward for combat power and dial in more trim as suddenly tracer appears out of nowhere missing you by inches. Your head tracker works overtime as you swing your head back and forward looking for the enemy somewhere on your tail as your wingman squadmate screams at you over voice coms "try and bank left so I can get a shot at him" meanwhile your opponent finally gets in a good deflection shot and bits of your wing start peeling off and a steady stream of leaking fuel appears. panicking you kick the rudder pedals and flip inverted before pulling back in a split S barely clearing the ground before flipping up right and banking between two chimney stacks on a Russian factory. A collision will turn you into a fireball. Your opponent gets off another deflection shot and your engine splatters oil over your windscreen and develops a distinct grinding sound ....

EVE Online
Using drop down menus and the keyboard you lock the target and attempt to manually fly to keep your traversal up by clicking at a random spot in space. No need to worry about colliding with anything as you will just bounce off. A red bar appears on your target as you get into range and hit F1 but he gets a lock on you and red bars appear on your screen as well. Eventually one of you is destroyed and disappears.
Paranoid Loyd
#84 - 2014-07-14 23:55:46 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Awwwwww damnnnn... Torch and Pitchfork Firesale!!!!!!!!!!


WTB, 1 of each please.


I'm a Level 80 Crafter of these items. I'll sell them for 10 gold each.


Will you take isk? My boar hunting skills are sadly not up to par so I have no Gold Cry

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Jegrey Dozer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-07-14 23:58:18 UTC
Quote:
EVE is a terrible game. I've heard horror stories about it, the pretty much legalized griefing that goes on in the game and ****. Guild officers robbing entire guilds blind, forceful takeovers of guilds and draining them. ******* over new players in general. Its just **** I've heard, I've never played the game though. I probably never will, why would anyone want to experience that?


This single person's complaint is the same reason other people play and his assessment is entirely subjective. Also, EvE is not alone in that players can screw each other over. There is griefing in every game. Therefore, this critique is moot. No justification has been given as to why EvE is any different.



Quote:
Eve, a great place for jerks to congregate and pretend they're good at something, when in reality the only thing they're good it is being douche bags, and having way too much time to play a video game.


This is not relevant to any productive conversation. It's just one bitter person who most likely was dissatisfied when he/she made risky choices and paid the ultimate price.


Quote:
Sociopaths like E1 will always find victims because weak ones are numerous in our world.

Abusing them is never ok, even if they are willing to be abused.



CCP had to answer faster on this matter and they did not. My EVE accounts have been cancelled and I will never set foot in this universe (and I don't want to call it a game, I have too much respect for them) again. I am quite ashamed to have been blind for so long.



Enjoy your s***box. (the *** were put there by me, not by some profanity filter).


The E1 incident was dealt with professionally. Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks an understanding of the limited reach and uniformity of true justice. CCP had a decision of whether or not to ban someone for something documented by a 3rd party program. While part of the community that was outraged was asking for E1's head to be delivered on a spike, the rest of us considered how dangerous it would be if CCP decided to chuck the ban hammer at anyone who pissed off the community. Ultimately, E1 was banned and anyone who left because of CCP's slow response never understood the fundamental principles of EvE in the first place. CCP did an outstanding job of being calm and collected when passing judgment. Those are qualities much more preferable in practice compared to handing out swift death to anyone who becomes infamous.


Quote:
i also grew to mistrust the company CCP and the community of this game, although im sure there were lots of decent human beings amongst them. the biggest problem i had with the community happened when i first started playing. the leader of one of the most prominent corporate alliances had shown up to a livestream drunk and called out a player by his real name and asked his followers to grief this poor, totally innocent guy. the leader said during the livestream that he wanted the player to actually commit suicide irl, and the big bad leader was marshalling his ingame forces to "make it so".

this despicable behaviour was reprimanded with a slap on the wrist, a mere 30 day suspension from their little ingame council, and as far as i know, nothing more was done.

there seemed to be a lingering resentment towards players who choose to pve or mine or whatever, and i read more than a few forum posts that were more like essays on how the elitist players are right in how they grief players who choose to mine, likening them to worse than mindless drones that deserve to die over and over. it felt like i was reading the manifesto of a sociopath, rather than a reasoned sensible opinion.


I can not defend the actions of someone who says something that awful. However, considering that I have never heard of this before and no link has been provided for proof, I can not address the hypothetical of a major alliance leader saying something of that sort. If this was actually done and CCP followed it up with a 30 day suspension, then I would not consider it a total failure as the quoted person seems to believe.

Players who spend most of their time in a massive multiplayer online game fighting computer generated opponents do not have the grounds to complain about player interaction. The game was designed to create conflict between players. Interaction between players is also what keeps the game vibrant and alive. It is only a minority of PvE players who are vilified because they do not contribute to the longevity of the game.

Quote:
This isn't a game. This is a chatroom for the sociopathic basement-dwellers who use mindgames to screw over the other nutjobs


Again, this is someone who just sounds bitter. This quote does not contribute to any meaningful discussion.


Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-07-15 00:00:01 UTC
Myxx wrote:

*OP*


I never really understood this. I first heard of EVE online in 2007 during the times of BoB and Goons going at it from a webcomic forums when I was still new to the internet. I was into MMO at the times and read the lore took up a good chunk of my day it was an interesting read. Then apparently it was P2P so I couldn't play it and went on my merry way.

Over the years I've played other MMO's and all I can say it was just a massive grind solo even with guild members. Must be me but everyone I play with is not sociable and/or shitheads that will troll you. Some games even encourage botting which completely shat on the player economy. Fast forward 2013 I was playing MWO when a buddy told me about asakai. Checked the video and fell in love with what amounted as a massive escalation because DDRB derped into field. After that I did my research about EVE Online and remembered I read the EVE lore years ago.

I read about the scams, the espionage, and other stories about other players and loved it. I instantly subbed after my trial ended but found PvE to be boring so I went to FW and died alot and had lots of fun. No static content in EVE I should say not unlike other MMO's where: Go kill 200 pandas, go kill 2000 pandas, go kill OVER 9000 pandas, good here's 1 ISK because this PVE content is now obsolete from the previous patch.

In EVE the rewards actually scale up depending on how well you do so it's a good sign for me.

Eventually a buddy asked me for an MMO to play and I showed him EVE. He made a trial account and he never logged in. It must not have been his cup of tea so I never asked him again if he was still playing.

TL;DR: I'm one of the type of players that actually like EVE. My buddy did the sensible thing and quit because he didn't like it and never tried to force his views on what EVE should be to suit him.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#87 - 2014-07-15 00:00:37 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Awwwwww damnnnn... Torch and Pitchfork Firesale!!!!!!!!!!


WTB, 1 of each please.


I'm a Level 80 Crafter of these items. I'll sell them for 10 gold each.


Will you take isk? My boar hunting skills are sadly not up to par so I have no Gold Cry


Why the **** would a boar have gold!?!!?! Why?!?!? Why does no one ask these questions!??!?!

People say the fluid physics in eve is ******* immersion breaking.. but not 1 damn person in WoW complains about broken immersion when a wild boar drops a ******* demon sword!!!!!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-07-15 00:02:26 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Myxx wrote:
wall of text


All of the above is correct.

If EVE wants to avoid the slow decline, it needs to introduce areas for consensual PvP (arenas-battlegrounds-whatever) and clamp down on the griefing/suicide-ganking.

New plays should not be griefed or scammed or ganked in any way, and there should be an area in EVE where it should be COMPLETELY safe for people to play.

Simple as that.

Will it happen? No, because ~reasons~

Whatever. Theirs jobs to lose, not mine. Meh.

EDIT - and why the hell aren't there normal video-tutorials? What is this, the 1990s? Instead of wasting money on flashy intros, get a nice 2-hour long video tutorial on how to actually play the game.

The moment this happens, I quit for good. As would a majority of the player base I reckon.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#89 - 2014-07-15 00:03:35 UTC
Now, let's see...
Myxx wrote:
This is the quote that got my attention:

EVE is a terrible game. I've heard horror stories about it, the pretty much legalized griefing that goes on in the game and ****. Guild officers robbing entire guilds blind, forceful takeovers of guilds and draining them. ******* over new players in general. Its just **** I've heard, I've never played the game though. I probably never will, why would anyone want to experience that?

Here's someone talking about EVE who has never played the game, who says he will never play it and yet seems to believe he knows it all. The internet is crowded with such people and anyone listening to them is to blame themselves.

Myxx wrote:
Comments in an article about that problem back in march/april that got someone banned rather publicly for harrassment are worth reading. Article in question, read the comments: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/

Here's an "article" from someone who could have been the guy from your first quote. I would bet he didn't take the time to actually listen to the soundcloud file. And if I told you what I think about what happened later, I probably would get in trouble with the mods.

Myxx wrote:
From a former player:

Sociopaths like E1 will always find victims because weak ones are numerous in our world.
Abusing them is never ok, even if they are willing to be abused.

CCP had to answer faster on this matter and they did not. My EVE accounts have been cancelled and I will never set foot in this universe (and I don't want to call it a game, I have too much respect for them) again. I am quite ashamed to have been blind for so long.

Enjoy your s***box. (the *** were put there by me, not by some profanity filter).

If this former player is who I think he is, this quote would be quite ironic. Because the player in question tried to intimidate other players with not very veiled RL threats.

Myxx wrote:
From a steam review:

i also grew to mistrust the company CCP and the community of this game, although im sure there were lots of decent human beings amongst them. the biggest problem i had with the community happened when i first started playing. the leader of one of the most prominent corporate alliances had shown up to a livestream drunk and called out a player by his real name and asked his followers to grief this poor, totally innocent guy. the leader said during the livestream that he wanted the player to actually commit suicide irl, and the big bad leader was marshalling his ingame forces to "make it so".

this despicable behaviour was reprimanded with a slap on the wrist, a mere 30 day suspension from their little ingame council, and as far as i know, nothing more was done.

As far as he knows, nothing more was done... Well, if you google the incident in question you will learn that a lot more was done. And it wasn't a 30 day suspension from the CSM btw, but a temp ban from EVE (and more). So obviously the guy writing that steam review doesn't know much.

Myxx wrote:
The point is... EVE has a reputation problem that gets people to never consider trying it to begin with. This is not good for the game. What should be done about it, if anything?

EVE is not for everyone.
In almost all other MMOs the player gets to be the hero, simply by following the storyline. And in the end - although it makes no sense - you will have hundreds or thousands of chosen ones. EVE is different. In EVE you have to work to be a hero (or villain). You gave to earn your reputation. And if you have it, you have to live with it and deal with the consequences. That's what brought me here.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-07-15 00:04:08 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Awwwwww damnnnn... Torch and Pitchfork Firesale!!!!!!!!!!


WTB, 1 of each please.


I'm a Level 80 Crafter of these items. I'll sell them for 10 gold each.


Will you take isk? My boar hunting skills are sadly not up to par so I have no Gold Cry


Stop being terrible noob. Take the titan to the Trammel system and get some mad gold.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-07-15 00:05:46 UTC
The cruel nature of various posters responses clearly indicate the continue sociopathic and disgusting behavior that CCP allow to continue in EVE. I have no doubts that many of you like playing this game because you like taking all your negativity out on others in a game. Does that make you feel like a man?

I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.
Nathaniel Raynaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2014-07-15 00:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathaniel Raynaud
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

People say the fluid physics in eve is ******* immersion breaking.. but not 1 damn person in WoW complains about broken immersion when a wild boar drops a ******* demon sword!!!!!

eve players are all persnickety nerds, and wow players all want to have sex with pandas
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#93 - 2014-07-15 00:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Jegrey Dozer wrote:
I can not defend the actions of someone who says something that awful. However, considering that I have never heard of this before and no link has been provided for proof, I can not address the hypothetical of a major alliance leader saying something of that sort. If this was actually done and CCP followed it up with a 30 day suspension, then I would not consider it a total failure as the quoted person seems to believe.
It certainly happened, what the OP got wrong is that the alliance leader in question got a 30 day suspension from the game, not the CSM.

OP also forgot to mention that he was removed from his position on the then current CSM, and barred from the position he was due to fill in the next CSM. He also apologised to the player in question and paid a substantial amount of ingame restitution to that player.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2014-07-15 00:09:02 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
The cruel nature of various posters responses clearly indicate the continue sociopathic and disgusting behavior that CCP allow to continue in EVE. I have no doubts that many of you like playing this game because you like taking all your negativity out on others in a game. Does that make you feel like a man?

I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.


Since you're a qualified psychologist, define sociopathic behaviour for us please. Oh, wait... you're not a qualified psychologist? Disregard then. For a moment there, I thought you were bringing a meaningful talking point to the discussion.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#95 - 2014-07-15 00:09:43 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:


I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.


What would it take for you to be completely done?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#96 - 2014-07-15 00:11:47 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
The cruel nature of various posters responses clearly indicate the continue sociopathic and disgusting behavior that CCP allow to continue in EVE. I have no doubts that many of you like playing this game because you like taking all your negativity out on others in a game. Does that make you feel like a man?

I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.


Yeah.. sorry about that. It just irritates me soooo much that a lvl 1 Boar will drop a lvl 15 Under Demon Sword for like.. no reason. I mean.. you don't see the sword on the boar. Nothing. It doesn't even have a backpack, or magic bag of holding on it. But sure enough.. you kill it, and POP! Out comes gold and weaponry like some kind of piñata. Here I was, happy to be a Night Elf and totally immersed in my game.. and then physics and reality go right out the window with this random drop. I could totally see a level 10 boss mob dropping an Under Demon Sword.. totally, but a boar??!?! Come on now.... that's.. that's just wrong and you know it.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#97 - 2014-07-15 00:12:20 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
The cruel nature of various posters responses clearly indicate the continue sociopathic and disgusting behavior that CCP allow to continue in EVE. I have no doubts that many of you like playing this game because you like taking all your negativity out on others in a game. Does that make you feel like a man?

I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.

Can I have your stuff?
Nathaniel Raynaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-07-15 00:14:01 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
The cruel nature of various posters responses clearly indicate the continue sociopathic and disgusting behavior that CCP allow to continue in EVE. I have no doubts that many of you like playing this game because you like taking all your negativity out on others in a game. Does that make you feel like a man?

I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.


i'm going to feel so weird if this does't turn out to be a joking post
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2014-07-15 00:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Chewytowel Haklar
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
The cruel nature of various posters responses clearly indicate the continue sociopathic and disgusting behavior that CCP allow to continue in EVE. I have no doubts that many of you like playing this game because you like taking all your negativity out on others in a game. Does that make you feel like a man?

I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.


Yeah.. sorry about that. It just irritates me soooo much that a lvl 1 Boar will drop a lvl 15 Under Demon Sword for like.. no reason. I mean.. you don't see the sword on the boar. Nothing. It doesn't even have a backpack, or magic bag of holding on it. But sure enough.. you kill it, and POP! Out comes gold and weaponry like some kind of piñata. Here I was, happy to be a Night Elf and totally immersed in my game.. and then physics and reality go right out the window with this random drop. I could totally see a level 10 boss mob dropping an Under Demon Sword.. totally, but a boar??!?! Come on now.... that's.. that's just wrong and you know it.


*Scratch that comment*

Idk what to make of this...
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#100 - 2014-07-15 00:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
The cruel nature of various posters responses clearly indicate the continue sociopathic and disgusting behavior that CCP allow to continue in EVE. I have no doubts that many of you like playing this game because you like taking all your negativity out on others in a game. Does that make you feel like a man?

I swear I am about done! The negative reputation this game gets from all sources is well deserved.

Can I have your stuff?
Are you sure you want it? It probably needs fumigation to get rid of the cooties.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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