These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1421 - 2014-07-07 15:57:45 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Yup, RPing is clearly not to be tolerated in an MMORPG

Personally I think it should be an executable offense, but hey ho.


So....

You'd be happier then if the game was the "Number Increasing Slowly Game" where a counter which once represented ore clicks up and then that changes into another number, which once represented Isk.

Because I hate to break it to you sister, your spaceship isnt real

And you are RPing a miner, you dont actually go to space.

So execute yourself for it while you decry everyone else who actual plays a game according to its rules and genre.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1422 - 2014-07-07 15:58:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:
Please go and check zkillboard as suggested above, and then come back and admit that suicide ganking has absolutely exploded in popularity over the last 2-3 years.

Suicide ganking has been absolutely imploded over the last 2–3 years. Some systems that saw multiple specific ganks daily now see as many kills in a month.

Explosions tend to go in the opposite direction.


Go zkillboard, search CONCORD, stats tab, monthly history.

Watch in wonder at the numbers that suddenly rocket upwards in the last 2-3 years. Then come back and tell me about the rise in ganking being a myth.

For example:

June 2014 - 23,323 kills
June 2013 -15,715 kills
June 2012 - 7,725 kills
June 2011 - 1,751 kills
June 2010 - 1,078 kills
June 2009 - 596 kills

Yeah, a real implosion we're seeing there. Roll
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1423 - 2014-07-07 16:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kal Murmur wrote:
Go zkillboard, search CONCORD, stats tab, monthly history.

Watch in wonder at the numbers that suddenly rocket upwards in the last 2-3 years. Then come back and tell me about the rise in ganking being a myth.
The rise in ganking is a myth, and your chosen method demonstrates this with ample clarity.

What you're seeing is people being forced into using more and more small ships as it becomes more and more difficult to get a kill. Oh, and if you think for a second that only 1750 ganks were attempted in 2012, you need to have your head examined, so that shows how much the data is worth…

You see those systems I picked as an example? I've lived in them for extended periods of time. I can tell you two things: the stats listed on zkillboard for older years are massively inaccurate; and they saw bling-fit MR ships die on a daily basis. Now it's a weekly or monthly. So yeah, “imploded” is the word I'd choose since it's the only one that accurate describes what has happened.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1424 - 2014-07-07 16:03:48 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Quote:
please demonstrate the rise of deaths by suicide gank. i'll accept data sourced from zkill or eve-kill.
Linking killboards is prohibited on General Discussion, but you are free to go to zkillboard and enter "CONCORD" in the search bar, then click on "Stats" tab and scroll down to monthly history.

I'm not picking a side in this argument and I'm not saying that I'm on the same page as your quoted player, but some things are just too obvious and information is freely available.

i did not ask her to link to a killboard. please read more carefully.

Ramona McCandless wrote:
They are elephants and hippos and anklyosaurs

please do not make up creatures

elephants are ridiculous and obviously not real
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1425 - 2014-07-07 16:05:27 UTC
wait, ankylosaurs are real? i thought you were making up the name of a creature for a joke
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1426 - 2014-07-07 16:06:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
What you're seeing is people being forced into using more and more small ships as it becomes more and more difficult to get a kill. Oh, and if you think for a second that only 1750 ganks were attempted in 2012, you need to have your head examined, so that shows how much the data is worth…


Ah so we've moved from 'Show me the data!' to 'The data is obviously wrong!'. Ok then..
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1427 - 2014-07-07 16:06:15 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:

Ramona McCandless wrote:
They are elephants and hippos and anklyosaurs

please do not make up creatures

elephants are ridiculous and obviously not real


Sorry, that should have read "heffalumps"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1428 - 2014-07-07 16:07:55 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
wait, ankylosaurs are real? i thought you were making up the name of a creature for a joke


Yahbro, an Ankylosaur will mess you up funtime

They had armour tanking sorted millions of years before a Nano was ever dreamed of

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1429 - 2014-07-07 16:08:43 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What you're seeing is people being forced into using more and more small ships as it becomes more and more difficult to get a kill. Oh, and if you think for a second that only 1750 ganks were attempted in 2012, you need to have your head examined, so that shows how much the data is worth…


Ah so we've moved from 'Show me the data!' to 'The data is obviously wrong!'. Ok then..


You dont do much statistical analysis in life. Ok then....

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1430 - 2014-07-07 16:09:30 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:

For example:

June 2014 - 23,323 kills
June 2013 -15,715 kills
June 2012 - 7,725 kills
June 2011 - 1,751 kills
June 2010 - 1,078 kills
June 2009 - 596 kills

Yeah, a real implosion we're seeing there. Roll


Is it hard to be that obtuse? Or do you just suck at deductive reasoning?

People use more smaller ships BECAUSE ganking has been nerfed. More smaller ships = more CONCORD kills.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1431 - 2014-07-07 16:10:28 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What you're seeing is people being forced into using more and more small ships as it becomes more and more difficult to get a kill. Oh, and if you think for a second that only 1750 ganks were attempted in 2012, you need to have your head examined, so that shows how much the data is worth…


Ah so we've moved from 'Show me the data!' to 'The data is obviously wrong!'. Ok then..


No, it's cherrypicked and deliberately misleading. When asked to provide proof, you instead tried to rig the numbers. This shows beyond doubt that you have no proof.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1432 - 2014-07-07 16:11:03 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Ah so we've moved from 'Show me the data!' to 'The data is obviously wrong!'. Ok then..

No. We've moved from “learn to interpret the data” to “…also, make sure you understand the gaps in the data”.

Again, if you think that 2012 shows 1,751 losses to CONCORD because (at most) 1,751 ganks happened in that year — i.e. less than 5 in a day — rather than because a) other killboards were in use, b) people didn't post CONCORD losses on their boards, c) ganks required fewer ships, d) all of the above, you still need to have your head examined and need to stay away from any kind of attempted data analysis until you do.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1433 - 2014-07-07 16:17:51 UTC
Tippia mentioned it above, but I'd like to chime in on this as well.

Killboard unification didn't even really get started until mid 2012. Any numbers from before then, that don't come from CCP themselves, are worthless. For crying out loud in 2010 I think the most used killboard was still Battleclinic. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1434 - 2014-07-07 16:21:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kal Murmur wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What you're seeing is people being forced into using more and more small ships as it becomes more and more difficult to get a kill. Oh, and if you think for a second that only 1750 ganks were attempted in 2012, you need to have your head examined, so that shows how much the data is worth…


Ah so we've moved from 'Show me the data!' to 'The data is obviously wrong!'. Ok then..
Nope, CCP will have the only definitive data available.

When looking at the data recorded by killboards you need to take into account that it inherently has errors caused by the fact not all Concord kills are down to suicide ganking, and that not all Concord kills are recorded by killboards, at all, because many people don't use that API functionality.

The problem is with your interpretation of that data, you're failing to take into account that in late 2011 insurance ceased to be paid out on ships that died to Concord, which logically would lead to gankers user smaller ships than before, and requiring more of those ships to achieve the same goal; thus more kills by Concord for every gank.

More kills by Concord != more people getting suicide ganked. It only shows that more people die to Concord because more gankers are required to carry out the ganks.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1435 - 2014-07-07 16:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal Murmur
Charon kills in High-Sec

Jun-14: 70
Jun-13: 44
Jun-12: 8
Jun-11: 11
Jun-10: 9

Please explain how this data is also wrong.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1436 - 2014-07-07 16:23:25 UTC
Kal Murmur wrote:
Charon kills in High-Sec

Jun-14: 70
Jun-13: 44
Jun-12: 8
Jun-11: 11
Jun-10: 9

Please explain how this data is also wrong.

Please show us the source.
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1437 - 2014-07-07 16:27:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:
Charon kills in High-Sec

Jun-14: 70
Jun-13: 44
Jun-12: 8
Jun-11: 11
Jun-10: 9

Please explain how this data is also wrong.

Please show us the source.


Source is zkillboard. Search Charon, Losses, page back to the relevant dates.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1438 - 2014-07-07 16:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kal Murmur wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Kal Murmur wrote:
Charon kills in High-Sec

Jun-14: 70
Jun-13: 44
Jun-12: 8
Jun-11: 11
Jun-10: 9

Please explain how this data is also wrong.

Please show us the source.


Source is zkillboard. Search Charon, Losses, page back to the relevant dates.
Your data is misleading due to the fact that A: it is incomplete, as per above not everyone uses killboards and unification didn't occur until mid 2012; B: you don't know how many of those particular Charon's died due to wardecs, as opposed to suicide gankers.

For your data to be accurate you'd need to check every other killboard for Charon kills for June 2010-14 and eliminate any duplicates and kills that didn't involve Concord.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1439 - 2014-07-07 16:37:24 UTC
Interesting....

According to the same KB Red Frog hasnt lost a single freighter in that time frame

Which is odd, as statistically you think that as high users of them, they would be garunteed to have lost at least one

Hmm
perhaps theres something amiss here...

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kal Murmur
Lazortits
#1440 - 2014-07-07 16:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal Murmur
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Interesting....

According to the same KB Red Frog hasnt lost a single freighter in that time frame

Which is odd, as statistically you think that as high users of them, they would be garunteed to have lost at least one

Hmm
perhaps theres something amiss here...


Hmm, I also looked at Red Frog as a corp to see their freighter losses. They lost one in a June, in 2013. June 29th to be precise but it was a Fenrir which is why it won't have showed up on the Charon search.

As a corp (according to zkillboard) they lost..

2 in 2011
4 in 2012
8 in 2013
and 6 to present in 2014. That would seem to represent the same kind of increase the other figures showed.