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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1361 - 2014-07-05 23:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:

This is what the mining cruisers used to be good at. Done right, you would convey the impression of a soft and easy target (i.e. a newbie with limited tanking skills), that could be handled by one or two gankers. But with less than 12 days training you were able to field a decent T2 tank. Concord did the rest.


but that option's no longer available, is it?

Yes it is. The new exhumers and barges do exactly that, and in some mining ships you can pack a bit of bite of your own.

Quote:
I will continue to watch people I introduce to EvE give up when their trial accounts expire.
What are you teaching them (or not teaching them) that makes them give up?
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1362 - 2014-07-05 23:15:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:

gankers don't have standard fits, though.


Yeah, we definitely do. One thing we do well, and it's a large part of why we have adapted despite the repeated nerfs to ganking, is share information.

Quote:

I must say again. The Q-ship is NOT a miner. It does NOT mine. it is NOT a "do everything" ship. It has ONE function... combat against an attacker not equipped to meet resistance


Lol. You have yet to explain how this is supposed to actually work. So how about some specifics, please? Are you going to just add a new class of Mining Barge that can't fit Strip Miners, but can fit guns? Or are you saying they should add gun slots to the current barges? Or what?


how about rigs or fitting that:
do NOT alter flight characteristics,
take up large amounts of ore hold (thus removing the ability to actually mine profitably),
but add
high slots for weapons
shielding
and/or power
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1363 - 2014-07-05 23:16:47 UTC
Can I have your stuff?

No, but in all seriousness, I am curious as to how you think this concept would realistically play out, here.

If you want to give all the barges the ability to fit, say, medium guns. Then I just have to shoot the guy who has mining lasers active, and not the guy who doesn't.. The concept is functionally worthless.

If you want to give all the barges the ability to fit medium guns and extra slots to fit them, that will never happen as it would be too overpowered. They'd all have their tank nerfed by 50% or more to justify it. The concept is unrealistic.

And if you want to create a brand new mining barge class, with a decent tank and the ability to fit medium guns... then congratulations, you have just invented the T1 battlecruiser.

This is what I keep trying to tell you. The Q-ship concept is s.t.u.p.i.d. It's a pipe dream, it doesn't take the realities of the game into account, and it doesn't belong in EVE Online.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1364 - 2014-07-05 23:17:01 UTC
it's not worth discussing anymore.

CCP agrees with you.

I don't.

'nuff said.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1365 - 2014-07-05 23:17:55 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:

gankers don't have standard fits, though.


Yeah, we definitely do. One thing we do well, and it's a large part of why we have adapted despite the repeated nerfs to ganking, is share information.

Quote:

I must say again. The Q-ship is NOT a miner. It does NOT mine. it is NOT a "do everything" ship. It has ONE function... combat against an attacker not equipped to meet resistance


Lol. You have yet to explain how this is supposed to actually work. So how about some specifics, please? Are you going to just add a new class of Mining Barge that can't fit Strip Miners, but can fit guns? Or are you saying they should add gun slots to the current barges? Or what?


how about rigs or fitting that:
do NOT alter flight characteristics,
take up large amounts of ore hold (thus removing the ability to actually mine profitably),
but add
high slots for weapons
shielding
and/or power


I can tell you right now, that CCP will never make Mining Barges into T3 cruisers. I honestly think they regret ever devising T3s in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1366 - 2014-07-05 23:19:43 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
...because I'm not allowed to mount weapons.

Gankers will adapt, since they can easily identify your weaons at a distance, as Kaarous rightly pointed out. And they can do it cloaked, so you won't even be aware of it happening.

Remove standings and insurance.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1367 - 2014-07-05 23:27:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:

This is what the mining cruisers used to be good at. Done right, you would convey the impression of a soft and easy target (i.e. a newbie with limited tanking skills), that could be handled by one or two gankers. But with less than 12 days training you were able to field a decent T2 tank. Concord did the rest.


but that option's no longer available, is it?

Yes it is. The new exhumers and barges do exactly that, and in some mining ships you can pack a bit of bite of your own.

Sort of. The cruisers had the advantage, that you could use mining drones for better deception and still mount a turret or launcher to have a chance of getting on the killmail Pirate.

Remove standings and insurance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1368 - 2014-07-05 23:46:12 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Sort of. The cruisers had the advantage, that you could use mining drones for better deception and still mount a turret or launcher to have a chance of getting on the killmail Pirate.

My point is more towards the idea of “conveying the impression of a soft target with limited tanking skills” — that impression was shattered in the old days by using a scanner, same as it is today. If you could pull of that deception back then, you can do it now — being in a squishy harvesting ship rather enhances the image than being in a combat ship…
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1369 - 2014-07-06 00:53:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Sort of. The cruisers had the advantage, that you could use mining drones for better deception and still mount a turret or launcher to have a chance of getting on the killmail Pirate.

My point is more towards the idea of “conveying the impression of a soft target with limited tanking skills” — that impression was shattered in the old days by using a scanner, same as it is today. If you could pull of that deception back then, you can do it now — being in a squishy harvesting ship rather enhances the image than being in a combat ship…

Sure. You don't catch a careful ganker this way. But the hasty ones...

Remove standings and insurance.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1370 - 2014-07-06 01:18:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I can tell you right now, that CCP will never make Mining Barges into T3 cruisers. I honestly think they regret ever devising T3s in the first place.


There have been quite a few Dev comments indicating the T3 rebalance when it occurs will see them repositioned between T1 and T2, hence the "rebalanced" Tengu for example will be less powerful than a T2 like the Ishtar but more versatile.
Cagot
Zendian Solutions
#1371 - 2014-07-06 01:45:03 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I can tell you right now, that CCP will never make Mining Barges into T3 cruisers. I honestly think they regret ever devising T3s in the first place.


There have been quite a few Dev comments indicating the T3 rebalance when it occurs will see them repositioned between T1 and T2, hence the "rebalanced" Tengu for example will be less powerful than a T2 like the Ishtar but more versatile.

I've always been annoyed by the fact that this has *always* been the case with the Proteus. There is no way to make the Proteus into a drone boat as good as an Ishtar.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1372 - 2014-07-06 03:22:25 UTC
You know what I don't get, I loot some scrap worth 300 isk from some wreck the guy probably doesn't even want, and everyone can blow me to bits for 15 mins, but I go around scanning ships and sizing them up for a loss that can go into the Billions of ISK and no suspect flag, not even for 10 seconds, and the scan is pretty much instant giving the mark no chance to resist. How convenient.

Who comes up with this stuff, everyone knows that in EVE the real fight happens before the shooting starts.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Anathema Device
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1373 - 2014-07-06 07:33:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
This is what I keep trying to tell you. The Q-ship concept is s.t.u.p.i.d. It's a pipe dream, it doesn't take the realities of the game into account, and it doesn't belong in EVE Online.

Q-ship concept is valid in the Eve Online sandpit and has its uses. Wary hunters are less likely to be taken in by Q-Ships and history shows the WW-I experience was a mixture of success with failures. If somebody wants to try Q-ships then good luck to them, they will need it. I don't have an objection to fitting turrets or missiles to miners. Restrictions on the number of turrets, launchers, shields and/or armour is the appropriate response.
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1374 - 2014-07-06 08:06:13 UTC
Something which should make you PvPers happy.

I've decided to stay off the forum until I've had a chance to test Kronos with my newest character.

Since that character is still drastically underskilled for the hostile enviorment I perceive High sec now is for solo miners, that will be at least 2 months.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1375 - 2014-07-06 08:40:15 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:


how about rigs or fitting that:
1. do NOT alter flight characteristics,
2. take up large amounts of ore hold (thus removing the ability to actually mine profitably),
but add
3. high slots for weapons
4. shielding
5. and/or power


1. Welcome to every single ship in EVE. Ever seen what 3 trimark rigs will do to slow down a megathron?

2. CCP are not going to give you the best of all worlds, if you want more tank you have to sacrifice your hold.

3. You have drones, use them.

4. They did buff mining barge tanks.

5. Again, they did just that. You are not going to get the CPU/grid to fit the very best of everything, they are designed so that you have to make choices.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1376 - 2014-07-06 08:42:44 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
You know what I don't get, I loot some scrap worth 300 isk from some wreck the guy probably doesn't even want, and everyone can blow me to bits for 15 mins, but I go around scanning ships and sizing them up for a loss that can go into the Billions of ISK and no suspect flag, not even for 10 seconds, and the scan is pretty much instant giving the mark no chance to resist. How convenient.

Who comes up with this stuff, everyone knows that in EVE the real fight happens before the shooting starts.


You stole something, the scanner did no harm to anyone.

Thats the difference.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1377 - 2014-07-06 08:58:52 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
Something which should make you PvPers happy.

I've decided to stay off the forum until I've had a chance to test Kronos with my newest character.

Since that character is still drastically underskilled for the hostile enviorment I perceive High sec now is for solo miners, that will be at least 2 months.

T2 shield tank takes less than 12 days to train. Add to that hull upgrades IV, spaceship command V and evasive maneuvering IV and you're ready to go.

Remove standings and insurance.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1378 - 2014-07-06 10:20:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
You know what I don't get, I loot some scrap worth 300 isk from some wreck the guy probably doesn't even want, and everyone can blow me to bits for 15 mins, but I go around scanning ships and sizing them up for a loss that can go into the Billions of ISK and no suspect flag, not even for 10 seconds, and the scan is pretty much instant giving the mark no chance to resist. How convenient.

Who comes up with this stuff, everyone knows that in EVE the real fight happens before the shooting starts.


You stole something, the scanner did no harm to anyone.

Thats the difference.


I honestly don't know why people think that just crying about it is going to get CCP to attach a mechanical punishment to something that is inherently a non hostile mechanic. Is it a meta hostile mechanic? Yep. But you can't attach mechanical punishments to it because of that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1379 - 2014-07-06 12:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
...Q-ships...

If such a thing came to pass, I'd give it about 10 minutes before the a ganker uses one to kill a miner, and about 30 seconds after that the recipient of the gank will be raging in local and/or on the forums.

Most miners can't be bothered to use, or learn to use, the tools they already have. They wouldn't use Q-ships either.

Be careful what you wish for, some of the stuff people have asked CCP for in the past has come to pass, and backfired hilariously on the people who asked for it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#1380 - 2014-07-06 14:35:32 UTC
what people like the OP fail to get is that it doesn't matter what you are flying or how its armed

my personal favorite is when someone is mining ice and has a buddy hanging out semi AFK in a faction fit BS for defense.

know what we do?

we alpha gank the BS and if we have enough time we pop the mack too.

sitting afk on a gate with some pricy navy boat? we'll determine what we need to pop you and then do it, so be mindful of those flashy pods flying past you, if you continue to sit there your turn will come.