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Anti-pirate market blacklisting?
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#21 - 2014-06-19 21:30:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Anyway must the solution always be "shoot it"? It's a sandbox, shouldn't there be more options than violence all the time?
There are. You just have to choose to use them. Your choice not to do so isn't sufficient reason to break the engine that makes the game turn around.

When the only solutions to an economic problem are "shoot the *******" and "give up and go back to trading in shiny pebbles and using an abacus" there is a need for a new solution. Eve being what it is, that needs to involve a change to mechanics.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Solecist Project
#22 - 2014-06-19 21:31:02 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Congratulations, you are playing patch-proof correctly.

As is/will everyone. This idea doesn't provide a non-violent solution to what you are trying to do.

I'm all for more diversity and if PvE players have more tools that they feel comfortable using in order to "fight back", then great.

You just have to realise though, that many players within Corps/Alliances like CODE., The Marmite Collective, etc. already use their own industry/hauling alts.

Solutions can be used by anyone, even non-violent ones.

You already have violent solutions to your perceived problem. Opening up other non-violent means to fight back will also open up other fronts on which people can also fight against you.

Scipio ...

It's Petrus.


He's trolling ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#23 - 2014-06-19 21:32:33 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

You already have violent solutions to your perceived problem. Opening up other non-violent means to fight back will also open up other fronts on which people can also fight against you.

Good. I'm proposing a new way to play, not a "make everything easy-mode" button.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#24 - 2014-06-19 21:35:57 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
When the only solutions to an economic problem are "shoot the *******" and "give up and go back to trading in shiny pebbles and using an abacus" there is a need for a new solution. Eve being what it is, that needs to involve a change to mechanics.

No. Just build your own. No mechanics need to be changed in the process, and doing so would just break things and kill one of the key points of the market.

All the tools you need are there. If you can't be arsed to build it, then that's just another check-box on the list of things that aren't sufficient reason to break a core mechanic, right alongside the other ones you've offered so far.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#25 - 2014-06-19 21:37:49 UTC
I can't imagine that this poorly thought out, knee jerk reaction of an idea would be abused by Goons at all... nope. Roll

Oh, and LOL at "destructio". Is that like fellatio, but with guns? Feyd's near constant sexual innuendos have never been more apt.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-06-19 21:40:04 UTC
Blacklists and whitelists are useful for Local, and in-game comms. If applied to the market it suddenly Balkanizes the regional markets and creates "guild only" markets (look at ESO's subreddit to see why such a mechanism destroys interplayer interaction on a world scale).

Market PVP is better conducted through pricing. Blacklists are easily circumvented by those with many alts (you know, the kinds of players that gank), and will lock out good customers (why? because EVE won't have the capacity to do per pilot blacklisting and people will resort to alliance/corp blacklisting instead.. just like they do for their contact lists).

You want to hurt ganking? Profit off the modules they buy. (assumption: happiness in EVE is zero sum).

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#27 - 2014-06-19 21:41:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
When the only solutions to an economic problem are "shoot the *******" and "give up and go back to trading in shiny pebbles and using an abacus" there is a need for a new solution. Eve being what it is, that needs to involve a change to mechanics.

No. Just build your own. No mechanics need to be changed in the process, and doing so would just break things and kill one of the key points of the market.

All the tools you need are there. If you can't be arsed to build it, then that's just another check-box on the list of things that aren't sufficient reason to break a core mechanic, right alongside the other ones you've offered so far.

So... if I asked for CCP to fix the forum eating my posts your solution would be to tell me to go build my own forum system and get people using them because the tools are there?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#28 - 2014-06-19 21:44:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

Scipio ...

It's Petrus.


He's trolling ...

That's a very mean thing to say. I honestly propose an idea to improve Eve for everyone by enabling more economic conflict and that means I'm trolling? Straight

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#29 - 2014-06-19 21:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Good. I'm proposing a new way to play, not a "make everything easy-mode" button.

Then surely you should be celebrating the Code, Marmites and the organisations they and other gankers/wardeccers have built around their activities?

They also dislike the easy-mode playstyle of bots and people in highsec that have a general disregard for their own safety.

So if I understand you correctly, you want this feature in order to use against people who get ganked because they are playing the game on easy-mode. I think the title of your thread might be a little misleading then.
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
#30 - 2014-06-19 21:57:37 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
The recent deluge of freighter ganking and other hisec lawlessness is a travesty. Yeah I get it, it's Eve you can do what you want, sandbox, HTFU, etc etc etc.

But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!

If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose? NO! Why can we not do the same thing?

CCP this is an enemy that only fights on his terms and has the objective of ruining the game. We want to advance and contribute to the game. Give us market pirate blacklisting, or sec status limits on orders, so we can fight them on our terms! More content for everyone and Eve grows.



Two things....

You'll probably be getting an email soon from some mission running carebear that got blown up because of your 'Nerf Hisec' heresy.

and

Have you considered buying a permit from a New Order agent? At 10m per year, it's a real bargain.

Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#31 - 2014-06-19 22:01:21 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Good. I'm proposing a new way to play, not a "make everything easy-mode" button.

Then surely you should be celebrating the Code, Marmites and the organisations they and other gankers/wardeccers have built around their activities?

They also dislike the easy-mode playstyle of bots and people in highsec that have a general disregard for their own safety.

So if I understand you correctly, you want this feature in order to use against people who get ganked because they are playing the game on easy-mode. I think the title of your thread might be a little misleading then.

... What? CODE is good emergent gameplay that belongs in Eve but that doesn't mean I support them! Your logic is contrived.

BuckStrider wrote:

Have you considered buying a permit from a New Order agent? At 10m per year, it's a real bargain.

Come and get me, big boy. Not all bears lack teeth.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#32 - 2014-06-19 22:06:18 UTC
The tools are there, your failure to utilize them is not the ganker's fault.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#33 - 2014-06-19 22:07:29 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Your logic is contrived.

Of course it was contrived. It fits well in this thread as the logic of this idea is contrived.

Of course it could always be naive rather than contrived, but I don't think you are really that naive. Like Sol implied, you are just playing games.
Vincenzo Arbosa
Locust Assets
#34 - 2014-06-19 22:09:50 UTC
I like the idea, it would be beneficial for other reasons (not just ganker-listing but war targets, building allies with industrialists, etc.) A trader/industrialist could choose to side in faction war through mercantile cartels, you could try to starve your enemy corps during war, etc.

I see it as creating a lot of content in one form or another, even if it did nothing but force alts to be active buyers it would add to gameplay on some level.

I would enjoy supplying the fellow scumbags of the universe either way, and a system like this would allow some to remove themselves from being any competition.

As an aside.. can someone send me a typical ganker fit so I can seed the market somewhere far from home? 



"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." 
Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-06-19 22:15:03 UTC
I like the idea. Or maybe set tax brackets for bad standings. Basically you can charge more based on standings or sec status.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#36 - 2014-06-19 22:17:26 UTC
Cazador 64 wrote:
I like the idea. Or maybe set tax brackets for bad standings. Basically you can charge more based on standings or sec status.

I think you're looking for standings "surcharge" instead of "tax". Tax implies an ISK sink and a rigid "hard" nerf to pirates. Nobody wants that.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#37 - 2014-06-19 22:18:55 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Seems like a lot of trouble for a feature that is made meaningless by the existence of alts.



Isn't that always how ti is with 'would-be brilliant' folks. that come up with this solid, air tight, fool proof ideas....that people tear down 12 seconds after that post?

Hey Brilliant guys, try spending 12 more seconds thinking about why your idea is crap, it will save you from carpal tunnel syndrome down the road becaus eyou will do much less typing defending stupid ideas.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#38 - 2014-06-19 22:20:05 UTC
Cazador 64 wrote:
I like the idea. Or maybe set tax brackets for bad standings. Basically you can charge more based on standings or sec status.



Ah, so for the best prices I should only shop on my no-pvp 5.0 sec status alt.

And this solves what exactly?
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#39 - 2014-06-19 22:21:19 UTC
Why do you people say, "It can easily be circumvented with alts," like that's a bad thing? More people needing more alts is good for CCP, and what's good for CCP is good for EVE.

Who put the goat in there?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#40 - 2014-06-19 22:23:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Cazador 64 wrote:
I like the idea. Or maybe set tax brackets for bad standings. Basically you can charge more based on standings or sec status.



Ah, so for the best prices I should only shop on my no-pvp 5.0 sec status alt.

And this solves what exactly?

Is 5.0 sec so easy to achieve that literally every ganker has such an alt? A system like the one proposed here increases the value of "lawful" characters, be they alts or mains. Why is that a problem?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)