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Anti-pirate market blacklisting?

Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#61 - 2014-06-19 23:00:28 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
The recent deluge of freighter ganking and other hisec lawlessness is a travesty. Yeah I get it, it's Eve you can do what you want, sandbox, HTFU, etc etc etc.

But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!

If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose? NO! Why can we not do the same thing?

CCP this is an enemy that only fights on his terms and has the objective of ruining the game. We want to advance and contribute to the game. Give us market pirate blacklisting, or sec status limits on orders, so we can fight them on our terms! More content for everyone and Eve grows.




I can see where you want to go with this idea but the implementation of it is not quite there.

In a part of Stain known as Hub Zero we have a "blue market" concept that is entirely aside from the mechanics of the game and difficult to implement, but effective. Everybody who is blue gets pretty much whatever they need for a small markup that covers shipping.

The only way your idea could be implemented under the present mechanics is to create a meta-network of who is who and who to sell to via contract. The only hope such a measure on a large scale could have is that it becomes like the WTZ bookmark issue where the servers are so bogged down with contracts that CCP has to do something about it and allow players to control who can or cannot see their sell orders and who is selling to people they have blacklisted - a solution by itself could be a massive undertaking as well ( I would not want to be the developer who gets tasked for this).

It might be possible on the "corporation level" but the concept of using "shadow corporations" to buy goods on behalf of others is well worn and easily done.

Being able to blacklist an individual out of the blue, such as putting a bounty on someone, will get abused to no end.

So as for cutting certain people off from equipment used to attack you is concerned, I would say you are S.O.L.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Arthay
#62 - 2014-06-19 23:09:23 UTC
I didn't bother to make a thread in F&I yet, but I had something similar in mind like tying personal Standing to market orders.

Would be great way to give a discount to people that buy often from you.


Example: Gyrostabilizer II

Sell Order....personal Standing

720k............+10

740k............+5

750k............neutral

750k............no standing

900k............-5

990k............-10

 If you find any misspelling or grammar errors, your allowed to keep them.

Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#63 - 2014-06-19 23:11:17 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

"Stop playing" is exactly what griefers want. Why not take a page out of their book and make me play my way instead?


I don't know where people get this idea from. It's almost never the case. Gankers want big kill mails more than anything, as well as immediately accessible content. Since there are no shortage of big kill mails to be had in hisec, and it doesn't take long to find them, gankers congregate there. Hisec is essentially a factory farm of big kills, so you can feed large amounts of gankers easily.

Bordem is another large motivation. Large portions of the game are completely devoid of content at the moment for reasons which go well beyond the scope of this thread, but getting in on the gravy train of kills in hisec alleviates part of this for some.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#64 - 2014-06-19 23:15:05 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Stop manufacturing. Stop marketing.

Let them run out of their little dessies. See what they do then. If we're lucky, they'll all migrate to Elder Scrolls Online,
and we can go back to what we do best here.


Only a carebear could come up with a "solution" like this.

"Gankers are making it harder to make a profit. Solution? Just stop making a profit at all! Hooray for emotional rabbit groupthink!"

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#65 - 2014-06-19 23:24:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Stop manufacturing. Stop marketing.

Let them run out of their little dessies. See what they do then. If we're lucky, they'll all migrate to Elder Scrolls Online,
and we can go back to what we do best here.


Only a carebear could come up with a "solution" like this.

"Gankers are making it harder to make a profit. Solution? Just stop making a profit at all! Hooray for emotional rabbit groupthink!"


On the other hand, let them. This will free up the market for the rest of us P

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#66 - 2014-06-19 23:25:45 UTC
For the record, there's already a system in place to limit who you sell to. It's called contracts.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-06-19 23:31:55 UTC
You know we build all of our own stuff right?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#68 - 2014-06-19 23:33:53 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You know we build all of our own stuff right?


I don't, and I freely admit it.

Although I might start, now that the industry interface is less... what's a good word for what it used to be? Horribad?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-06-19 23:35:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You know we build all of our own stuff right?


I don't, and I freely admit it.

Although I might start, now that the industry interface is less... what's a good word for what it used to be? Horribad?

Get yourself a highsec slave corp or two to mine minerals for you.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Soylent Jade
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-06-20 00:26:48 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose? NO! Why can we not do the same thing?



Apparently, you've never heard of war profiteering.

Making hisec better...one Catalyst at a time

minerbumping.com

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2014-06-20 00:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
So... if I asked for CCP to fix the forum eating my posts your solution would be to tell me to go build my own forum system and get people using them because the tools are there?

No. But if you asked CCP to break the game to provide you with functionality that can already be had in the game if you choose to create it, I will tell you that it's a hideously bad and thoroughly unnecessary idea. Kind of like this one. One, you can create on your own with the tools at your disposal, the other needs to be done by CCP because you don't have access to the underlying code. I'll give you two guesses which is which, and you'll be allowed one do-over if you get it wrong.

Quote:
So far nobody has proposed anything that invalidates the idea's usefulness.
…aside from the lowered market efficiency, your lack of insight into market mechanics, the pointlessness and uselessness of it, and the complete lack of necessity or any reason to implement it to begin with (no, RP and “I'm too lazy to make it happen myself” are not good reasons, and those are the only ones you've offered).
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2014-06-20 00:53:24 UTC
In the non-EVE world there are two basic types of multiplayer. Firstly PvP games where you choose red or blue and spawn in a tank or plane or your combat unit and go out and blow stuff up or get slotted in a race car and go play havoc on the track. Often bu tnot always twitch games (some are RTS) they appeal to competitive people looking for a kick. Then there are PvE games where you team up against the environment to do stuff you cannot do solo. They appeal to social minded people looking to relax.

EVE is basically a PvP game that allows the PvE players in so the PvP players have something other than each other to blow up :D


As far as the original suggestion goes, in the unlikely scenario it worked at all, the few ganker corps not making their own stuff would just create a dummy corp and recruit lots of newbs to make stuff for them.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-06-20 00:56:41 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
As far as the original suggestion goes, in the unlikely scenario it worked at all, the few ganker corps not making their own stuff would just create a dummy corp and recruit lots of newbs to make stuff for them.


Or they would just buy the stuff on an alt.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2014-06-20 00:56:48 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
The recent deluge of freighter ganking and other hisec lawlessness is a travesty. Yeah I get it, it's Eve you can do what you want, sandbox, HTFU, etc etc etc.

But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!

If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose? NO! Why can we not do the same thing?

CCP this is an enemy that only fights on his terms and has the objective of ruining the game. We want to advance and contribute to the game. Give us market pirate blacklisting, or sec status limits on orders, so we can fight them on our terms! More content for everyone and Eve grows.



Just because your to lazy to defend yourself or fight back, doesn't mean you can't. It also just makes you bad at EvE.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-06-20 01:10:29 UTC
+1

market orders based on standings, I approve.

a whole new level of flexibility, perhaps even different prices based on standings / security status
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#76 - 2014-06-20 01:23:15 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
+1

market orders based on standings, I approve.

a whole new level of flexibility, perhaps even different prices based on standings / security status
If you use standings as a metric it opens up a whole new level of market fuckery.

I can think of several people that would be set to terrible based on certain criteria, such as forum posts.

With regards to sec status, as others have said, people who are neg 10 will merely use an alt or a 3rd party to buy their stuff.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack

Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2014-06-20 01:24:46 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
+1

market orders based on standings, I approve.

a whole new level of flexibility, perhaps even different prices based on standings / security status
If you use standings as a metric it opens up a whole new level of market fuckery.

I can think of several people that would be set to terrible based on certain criteria, such as forum posts.

With regards to sec status, as others have said, people who are neg 10 will merely use an alt or a 3rd party to buy their stuff.


people will always use a neutral alt to buy stuff regardless, as it would insure the product was available and the best prices possible to the masses.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-06-20 01:25:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
+1

market orders based on standings, I approve.

a whole new level of flexibility, perhaps even different prices based on standings / security status
If you use standings as a metric it opens up a whole new level of market fuckery.

I can think of several people that would be set to terrible based on certain criteria, such as forum posts.

With regards to sec status, as others have said, people who are neg 10 will merely use an alt or a 3rd party to buy their stuff.


It would also mean any group with a sliver of intelligence would have a spy alt just to buy cheap stuff & the people not intelligent enough to do this would complain until the feature was nerfed to oblivion (sound familiar?) or outright removed, which makes this whole idea pretty dumb.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#79 - 2014-06-20 01:26:27 UTC
lol, -7-, really?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#80 - 2014-06-20 01:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Adira Nictor wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
+1

market orders based on standings, I approve.

a whole new level of flexibility, perhaps even different prices based on standings / security status
If you use standings as a metric it opens up a whole new level of market fuckery.

I can think of several people that would be set to terrible based on certain criteria, such as forum posts.

With regards to sec status, as others have said, people who are neg 10 will merely use an alt or a 3rd party to buy their stuff.


people will always use a neutral alt to buy stuff regardless, as it would insure the product was available and the best prices possible to the masses.
Oh I know, it's easily bypassed.

But just the idea of being able to gouge people on the market via setting standings based on things like their forum posts is appealing P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack