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Anti-pirate market blacklisting?

Author
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#1 - 2014-06-19 20:56:27 UTC
The recent deluge of freighter ganking and other hisec lawlessness is a travesty. Yeah I get it, it's Eve you can do what you want, sandbox, HTFU, etc etc etc.

But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!

If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose? NO! Why can we not do the same thing?

CCP this is an enemy that only fights on his terms and has the objective of ruining the game. We want to advance and contribute to the game. Give us market pirate blacklisting, or sec status limits on orders, so we can fight them on our terms! More content for everyone and Eve grows.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Carmen Electra
Dread Knights Holding
Dread Knights
#2 - 2014-06-19 20:59:26 UTC
This is such a great idea that you should make a brand new thread out of it.

Oh wait...

0/10
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-06-19 20:59:28 UTC
Seems like a lot of trouble for a feature that is made meaningless by the existence of alts.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2014-06-19 21:03:18 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back!
Yes you do. And even if you didn't, why would you want to?

Quote:
If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose?
Yes. Pretty much all of them do, because it's not really in their interest not to, nor is it their business to police those things.

Oh, and no, the market will never have any limitations on it that reduces its efficiency for the simple reason that this would be horribly bad for the market. If you absolutely have to control who transacts with you, the game already has that functionality. All it means is that you completely remove your ability to sell in bulk and/or at a high margin, though.
Singoth
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#5 - 2014-06-19 21:05:55 UTC
Oh, this gonna be good.
Not a terrible idea, at all.

Keep It Simple: set your contact standings. Everyone who is red will not be able to buy things from you on the market or through contracts
Also everyone who has war declared on your corp will not be able to buy things from you on the market or through contracts.

PvPers will have to choose carefully who they gonna shoot, because there may be more consequences than just tears Lol
Not going to be a popular idea, thus CCP is probably not going to do it, and additionally any ideas like this will be shot down.
But it sure is interesting, hypothetically speaking :P


Obligatory:
"F&I is that way ------>"

Less yappin', more zappin'!

Qaping Pi
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-06-19 21:06:38 UTC
Never met a car dealer who gives a rat's ass who they sell to. Also, alts. Also, faction warfare pilots with low sec status. Also, scammers and other "bad people" whose sec status is irrelevant to their activities. etc.
Paranoid Loyd
#7 - 2014-06-19 21:06:55 UTC
1/10 some thought and creativity but not much Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Ria Nieyli
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2014-06-19 21:08:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Oh, and no, the market will never have any limitations on it that reduces its efficiency for the simple reason that this would be horribly bad for the market. If you absolutely have to control who transacts with you, the game already has that functionality. All it means is that you completely remove your ability to sell in bulk and/or at a high margin, though.


Not even that, there are bulk trade mailing lists, and you can supply people you like in far off regions for a markup etc. etc.

@OP evading a gank is also fighting back.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#9 - 2014-06-19 21:09:35 UTC
Put the pitchfork down son, you'r going to hurt yourself with it.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2014-06-19 21:14:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back!
Yes you do. And even if you didn't, why would you want to?

Morals.

Tippia wrote:

Quote:
If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose?
Yes. Pretty much all of them do, because it's not really in their interest not to, nor is it their business to police those things.

Oh, and no, the market will never have any limitations on it that reduces its efficiency for the simple reason that this would be horribly bad for the market. If you absolutely have to control who transacts with you, the game already has that functionality. All it means is that you completely remove your ability to sell in bulk and/or at a high margin, though.

Are you talking about contracts? Because Public contracts cannot be limited by sec status. They could also use this change if it hurts the market's "efficiency" too much (how does processing fewer orders hurt efficiency?).

To all the gankbears here who are (correctly) pointing out that alts circumvent this: good. Every measure should have a countermeasure, this is Eve. More risk and cost to gankers (even in the form of an alt) is a good thing.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#11 - 2014-06-19 21:15:19 UTC
This is a kinda interesting idea. Being able to blacklist certain people does make sense. But to do it en masse is kinda dumb and also all these ideas are completely voided by alts.
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#12 - 2014-06-19 21:16:13 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!


Gallente blaster boat producers are probably making a killing off these ganks, and without aforementioned destruction, EvE stops running; they are giving lots of people jobs and content on the industrial side. You are always in competition with everyone else - why not sell a high volume product which you can get other people to use shutting down your potential competition? Seems like a great business opportunity. Selling goods with a short shelf life ensures business stays good too.

Also neutral alts would make implementing this impossible. If you were seriously hell-bent and wanted to use market anonymity to your advantage, why not sell catalysts a little bit cheaper than you should, wait to see who buys them in bulk, and then gank the freighter that ends up moving them to their intended party-zone? Step up your game.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#13 - 2014-06-19 21:20:47 UTC
Alternative Splicing wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!


Gallente blaster boat producers are probably making a killing off these ganks, and without aforementioned destruction, EvE stops running; they are giving lots of people jobs and content on the industrial side. You are always in competition with everyone else - why not sell a high volume product which you can get other people to use shutting down your potential competition? Seems like a great business opportunity. Selling goods with a short shelf life ensures business stays good too.

Also neutral alts would make implementing this impossible. If you were seriously hell-bent and wanted to use market anonymity to your advantage, why not sell catalysts a little bit cheaper than you should, wait to see who buys them in bulk, and then gank the freighter that ends up moving them to their intended party-zone? Step up your game.

So all the talk about Eve having non-violent PvP in the market and stuff is smoke and mirrors? I am aware enabling socipoaths is profitable but I'm asking to limit profits in order to not enable crime. Eve would only "stop running" (under your definition) if everyone jumped on board and limted their transactions. They won't, because it's profitable not to.

Anyway must the solution always be "shoot it"? It's a sandbox, shouldn't there be more options than violence all the time?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-06-19 21:20:54 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
The recent deluge of freighter ganking and other hisec lawlessness is a travesty. Yeah I get it, it's Eve you can do what you want, sandbox, HTFU, etc etc etc.


It's good for business... and you can add "suck it up, princess" to that list, since, well it's EVE. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#15 - 2014-06-19 21:21:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Singoth wrote:
Keep It Simple: set your contact standings. Everyone who is red will not be able to buy things from you on the market or through contracts
Also everyone who has war declared on your corp will not be able to buy things from you on the market or through contracts.

PvPers will have to choose carefully who they gonna shoot, because there may be more consequences than just tears Lol
Not going to be a popular idea, thus CCP is probably not going to do it, and additionally any ideas like this will be shot down.
But it sure is interesting, hypothetically speaking :P"

It won't work.

I'm a pvper for example. I currently have 4 characters active - pvp, exploration/scouting, nullsec anom/sig running, industry.

Even if someone took a disliking to me because of pvp and decided to block me from buying from them, so what? I don't buy much on this character anyway. Almost all of my buying and selling is done through my industry alt.

That character will never be blocked by anyone because it's an unknown entity, except to one other person on the forum.

So implementing this idea would not affect me one little bit, even if someone wanted to.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#16 - 2014-06-19 21:22:54 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

So implementing this idea would not affect me one little bit, even if someone wanted to.

So its like missioning in a Drake when drones get rebalanced. Congratulations, you are playing patch-proof correctly.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2014-06-19 21:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Morals.
LMAO no. Let's not break a core component of the game for RP.

Quote:
Are you talking about contracts? Because Public contracts cannot be limited by sec status.
I'm talking about contracts and trades, both of which can be targeted to specific users.

Quote:
They could also use this change if it hurts the market's "efficiency" too much (how does processing fewer orders hurt efficiency?).
Eh, having fewer orders hurts efficiency by very definition. Straight
You are advocating a massive mess of divergent price points for the same good. That's pretty horrible in and of itself, and just creates pointless complexity that people will have to work around for no good reason.

Quote:
Anyway must the solution always be "shoot it"? It's a sandbox, shouldn't there be more options than violence all the time?
There are. You just have to choose to use them. Your choice not to do so isn't sufficient reason to break the engine that makes the game turn around.
Maz Ngomo
#18 - 2014-06-19 21:27:43 UTC
Interesting idea OP, but ultimately impossible to implement. Market alts generally don't have negative sec status and the only way to link a specific market trader to another character is if the person tells you who they are or if you hack their account (which is so beyond illegal both in and out of game it's not even funny to joke about).

Maybe if CCP started listing all the characters on accounts or make API information freely available for every account... but hell no that's a terrible idea and I need mind bleach just thinking about it. #keepaltsanonymous
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#19 - 2014-06-19 21:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Congratulations, you are playing patch-proof correctly.

As is/will everyone. This idea doesn't provide a non-violent solution to what you are trying to do.

I'm all for more diversity and if PvE players have more tools that they feel comfortable using in order to "fight back", then great.

However, many players within Corps/Alliances like CODE., The Marmite Collective, etc. already use their own industry/hauling alts.

Solutions can be used by anyone, even non-violent ones. Introducing non-violent means to fight back will also open up other fronts on which people can also fight against you.

Aside from that, even if the idea could be made to work, the 0.01 ISK battles on the markets mean that if I can't buy the cheapest available in station/system, I can probably just pay an extra 0.01 ISK and buy it from someone else.
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#20 - 2014-06-19 21:30:21 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

So all the talk about Eve having non-violent PvP in the market and stuff is smoke and mirrors? I am aware enabling socipoaths is profitable but I'm asking to limit profits in order to not enable crime. Eve would only "stop running" (under your definition) if everyone jumped on board and limted their transactions. They won't, because it's profitable not to.

Anyway must the solution always be "shoot it"? It's a sandbox, shouldn't there be more options than violence all the time?


Who says market PvP is non-violent just because there aren't any wrecks generated?

If you are really a conscientious objector, just build skiff and shield mods.
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