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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Author
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#761 - 2014-05-29 10:33:18 UTC
Darth Fett wrote:
Hello Fozzie, I hope you still reading this topic.
Implementing MJD with current TQ mechanig is a big mistake - becouse currently it stupid "save me" button, warp stabilizer with infinite streight.
Some years ago lock range+scan resolution penalties was addet to warp stabilizers, becouse of PVP, in that you cannot win becouse of opponent can leave in any time - is wasting of time.
But now you added warp stab with infinite streight without penalties. Why?
If you think that kiters too overpowered - nerf them. Currently speed balance is completely broken. Cruisers flying faster that destroyers and even frigates, battleships faster that battlecruisers. Ishtars (cruiser!) carrying large weapons, that annihilating all in 100+km range, almost immune to ewar, and still receiving only boost in new patch.
If you want to add another type of combat maneuring - add penalty, that will offline ship warp core for 1 minute if MJD activated under warp disruptor.


It doesn't have "infinite point strength", only one point.

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#762 - 2014-05-29 13:21:27 UTC
Darth Fett wrote:
Hello Fozzie, I hope you still reading this topic.
Implementing MJD with current TQ mechanig is a big mistake - becouse currently it stupid "save me" button, warp stabilizer with infinite streight.
Some years ago lock range+scan resolution penalties was addet to warp stabilizers, becouse of PVP, in that you cannot win becouse of opponent can leave in any time - is wasting of time.
But now you added warp stab with infinite streight without penalties. Why?
If you think that kiters too overpowered - nerf them. Currently speed balance is completely broken. Cruisers flying faster that destroyers and even frigates, battleships faster that battlecruisers. Ishtars (cruiser!) carrying large weapons, that annihilating all in 100+km range, almost immune to ewar, and still receiving only boost in new patch.
If you want to add another type of combat maneuring - add penalty, that will offline ship warp core for 1 minute if MJD activated under warp disruptor.


They have the exact same capabilities a kiter has against the ships these MMJD will be put on; they can disengage at will.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#763 - 2014-05-29 13:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
So far I haven't seen any well thought out logic or reasoning from you other than "DOOM, GLOOM, CTHULHU WTF".

You even disqualify your own statements by stating that some stat changes on MJD might fix the "problems".



nice edit;

It's always a good sign when people suddenly stop discussing the subject and start pulling the character card. It means they ran out of arguments and (better yet) they even realise it themselves. Thanks for playing.



Nope. I am just disqualify YOUR ARGUMENT. Since as long as you post with a NPC corp character you can be very well someone that NEVER participated in ANY PVP, and have no clue on your statements (altough almost everythign else you post already support that). Youcould be just a carebear.


Want your arguments to be takesn seriously? Shyow your face. Show why we shoudl believe you know what you are saying.

We had several posts from groups very well known for small scale high level PVP, basically all against your opinion.

The character card is not because someone does not have more arguments. It is because we noticed that is futile to discuss with someone that have given us zero reasons to take him seriously.


I missed this one;


Look, lets just call you for what you are. You're a high sec wardeccer who kills newbies and stupids who undock without thinking, while they're at war. As such you're terrified that you might end up missing a kill on some poor sod in his hull repper tanking lvl 2 fit Drake. You're not interested in "balance" or "doctrines", you just don't want to miss out on possible kills.

There is of course nothing wrong with being a high sec war deccer, I do it myself (amongst other things) but I'm not a hypocrite about it and it doesn't mean I'm not seeing through your obvious fear and impending rage about missing some targets (I'll also miss some targets, so fcking what).

Also; if you're going to call the pvp history card it would probably help if your own wasn't filled with ganging on newbies in high sec, just saying. So instead of **** waving (and while mine is non-existent, or rather; unknown on this char, yours isn't exactly measuring up) how about you stick to the facts, logic and reasoning.
Calexis Atredies
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#764 - 2014-05-29 13:44:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone! We've happy to announce that in the Kronos release we will be introducing a new medium version of the Micro Jump Drive!

This module will begin restricted to Combat Battlecruisers, Command Ships and Deep Space Transports. We will consider expanding it to some other classes in the future but that is a discussion for after we've seen how they work out on these initial groups.

The MMJD uses the same Micro Jump Drive Operation skill as the LMJD and has the same range (100km), spool up (12s base reduced by the skill) and cooldown (3 minutes) as the Large version.

It has the following requirements:
Powergrid: 165
CPU: 51
Capacitor: 197

We expect that these modules will be a very exciting option for battlecruisers in both fleets and small gangs.

Battlecruisers have been a little overshadowed by battleships and cruisers in recent months and having the option to use MJDs combined with their dps and low cost should create some interesting chances for clever players to show off their abilities.

These modules will be on SISI for your testing pleasure soon. Let us know what you think!


I like the MJD's in this game, but one thing bugs me.

The "infini-point" of a HIC with focused script is unable to disable the effects of a mjd or MWD, yet can warp disrupt a super catpital.

Please allow focused points from HICS the ability to disable MJD's and possibly even MWD's, you could be making HIC's into viable ships for PVP outside of fleet engagements. It would be a scary prospect on the field for any nano ship!
Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#765 - 2014-05-29 18:56:54 UTC
Not that anyone is listening to the feedback but i really don't think these mods should jump BC 100km. This basically just makes the mod an escape tool or a re-positioning tool for snipers... and if that is what CCP intended, Tier 3 BC would make the best use out of the, so it's a bit confusing that they can't use them What?

Instead, these jump drives should jump a BC 50km (maybe release meta versions that jump different ranges). This both brawling fleets and sniper fleets can use them to re-position but it wouldn't be a completely OP GTFO mod.

As i said, i'm under no illusions that CCP will listen/consider/respond to this feedback, but at least i said it.
Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#766 - 2014-05-30 07:55:36 UTC
One thing that's been on my mind, related to MJD, is... why is it that we can warp to some wreck or asteroid in space, but cannot just warp on a set distance in the direction we have aligned to? Why do we need special modules for that, why not make it just a built-in function for all ships (which would be also not immune to any kind of warp disruption)?

It would make combat more dynamic and fluent, making maneuvering a larger part of combat and also accessible to ships bigger than cruiser.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#767 - 2014-05-30 11:42:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone! We've happy to announce that in the Kronos release we will be introducing a new medium version of the Micro Jump Drive!
These modules will be on SISI for your testing pleasure soon. Let us know what you think!

Any update as to when these might hit Sisi for our testing pleasure?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#768 - 2014-05-30 12:35:57 UTC
Calexis Atredies wrote:


I like the MJD's in this game, but one thing bugs me.

The "infini-point" of a HIC with focused script is unable to disable the effects of a mjd or MWD, yet can warp disrupt a super catpital.

Please allow focused points from HICS the ability to disable MJD's and possibly even MWD's, you could be making HIC's into viable ships for PVP outside of fleet engagements. It would be a scary prospect on the field for any nano ship!


You are confusing propulsion modules with warp core strength. You need a special module called "Warp Scrambler" to disable the microwarp-based propulsion modules.

There's a number of ships (half of the interceptors, Keres, Lachesis, Arazu, Proteus, Mordus ships) with bonus to Warp Scrambler (and disruptor) range, if you are worried about being too close you can use these ships. Note that these cannot tackle supercapital ships, you will need a heavy interdictor for that.

Sometimes in EVE you won't be able to have your cake and eat it too.



Parthannun Solette
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#769 - 2014-05-30 18:12:38 UTC
i would have prefered it on my attack battlecruiser instead of on the combat battlecruiser
Budrick3
Moira.
Villore Accords
#770 - 2014-05-30 18:48:07 UTC
I would not like the Battle Cruiser to gain this ability or any other combat ship besides the Battleships. This gives way to much mobility to ships that are designed for considerable tank and gank.

This too would also just create cookie cutter ships that influence the use of scramblers almost exclusively and negates kiting completely. I like to brawl but I also like to fit kite every now and then.

Leave this ability for the battleships and deep space transports exclusively. Let it be their one trick to influence use of these ships.

Please please do not let multiple classes of ships to take part in this ability.
Firzam Aakiwa
Perkone
Caldari State
#771 - 2014-05-30 18:51:37 UTC
OK so if i understand the patch note, I would not be able to fit MMJD on my "NAGA" that have poor tracking against close combat and nothing to counter against scram/web (no drone bay), It's not like "Naga" have either OP tank mod. So why not extend it to attack BC.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#772 - 2014-05-30 19:15:30 UTC
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
OK so if i understand the patch note, I would not be able to fit MMJD on my "NAGA" that have poor tracking against close combat and nothing to counter against scram/web (no drone bay), It's not like "Naga" have either OP tank mod. So why not extend it to attack BC.


Because they have speed, damage projection and are natural kiters themselves.
Firzam Aakiwa
Perkone
Caldari State
#773 - 2014-05-30 22:53:58 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
OK so if i understand the patch note, I would not be able to fit MMJD on my "NAGA" that have poor tracking against close combat and nothing to counter against scram/web (no drone bay), It's not like "Naga" have either OP tank mod. So why not extend it to attack BC.


Because they have speed, damage projection and are natural kiters themselves.


Speed do nothing against webfiber, "Naga" is a dead ship if he don't warp out after webbed even a simple web drone can do the job. Vulture now are going to be a beast he can kill webfiber with drone and even escape with MMJD have better shield resist, more tracking, Command ship are not the most needed compare to attack battle cruiser
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#774 - 2014-05-31 09:22:34 UTC
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
OK so if i understand the patch note, I would not be able to fit MMJD on my "NAGA" that have poor tracking against close combat and nothing to counter against scram/web (no drone bay), It's not like "Naga" have either OP tank mod. So why not extend it to attack BC.


Because they have speed, damage projection and are natural kiters themselves.


Speed do nothing against webfiber, "Naga" is a dead ship if he don't warp out after webbed even a simple web drone can do the job. Vulture now are going to be a beast he can kill webfiber with drone and even escape with MMJD have better shield resist, more tracking, Command ship are not the most needed compare to attack battle cruiser


Which part of this logic don't you get? It has the CAPABILITY to kite and engage targets from range, just because there's counters to it (mostly about how the pilot messed up) doesn't mean that's a valid reason to say it needs help. A CBC gets to choose nothing, it's too slow to choose to engage or avoid targets and it lacks projected dps to do anything about it. It has NOTHING going for it, that's why you just don't see them much.

At least TRY and use some sound logic, will ya.
Jen Makanen
Roving Guns Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#775 - 2014-05-31 10:50:51 UTC
Bland Inquisitor wrote:
I liked the MJD, however my problem with it as most of eve currently is lack of tactical choice, leading to cookie cutter builds for every ship. It would be nice to see some variables with the MJD as an example;

Increase the cooldown and spool-up for increased range, decrease for shorter ranges. This could be set similar to obit range.

Give it some scripts that alter its use. A script to give a massive speed boost for a short burst for example, Or another script that blooms the Mass of the ship making it better at bumping larger ships.


I agree with this.

For some reason I feel that giving BC's the ability to jump as far as a BS hull is a bit overly powerful. As much as I like the MMJD idea I feel like it would benefit more fairly from the idea in the quoted post above. Either that or make it harder to fit on a ship or just give less of a jump for the same spool.

I haven't really looked into this much, only heard about it today, so I'm just thinking about it in grand scheme.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#776 - 2014-06-01 19:52:16 UTC
Im only happy that Elite Dangerous will be deployed this year... Time to forget bout Eve I guess.
CCPs idiotic ideas like this one ruin game enterly. For them it's just Medium Micro Jump Drive, but for people who hunt in lowsec it will be disaster.
First people with 5 Stabs on ships, now this sh*t.
I'll think very hard if to pay subs for my 3 accounts or not next time.

CCP you are going in wrong direction for a long time. We need a real expanssion of a scale of Apocrypha not another "let's make this game more idiot friendly" one.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.

Zachtgebakken
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#777 - 2014-06-01 22:24:00 UTC
This game is starting to look more and more like a magic wizard MMO where you can teleport and cast spells.


CCP we dont need Teleporting ships. You are ruining this game.




Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#778 - 2014-06-01 23:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Im only happy that Elite Dangerous will be deployed this year... Time to forget bout Eve I guess.
CCPs idiotic ideas like this one ruin game enterly. For them it's just Medium Micro Jump Drive, but for people who hunt in lowsec it will be disaster.
First people with 5 Stabs on ships, now this sh*t.
I'll think very hard if to pay subs for my 3 accounts or not next time.

CCP you are going in wrong direction for a long time. We need a real expanssion of a scale of Apocrypha not another "let's make this game more idiot friendly" one.



Yes, we can't have solo people get away from your lol-kiting OP gangs, can we. I mean, wtf man. They're ruining low sec with their solo PVP, they should just die and be happy about it!
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#779 - 2014-06-01 23:28:26 UTC
Parthannun Solette wrote:
i would have prefered it on my attack battlecruiser instead of on the combat battlecruiser

Yep, unfortunately all the whingers made CCP Fozzie delay it for attack BCs.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#780 - 2014-06-01 23:41:04 UTC
Just imagine you had ganglinks limited by radius eventually, suddenly your FC orders your regular BS fleet to MJD and the CS can't follow. So among other things, this allows for all sorts of future boosting ships to remain with almost any sort of fleet.