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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

First post First post First post
Author
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#781 - 2014-06-02 00:03:31 UTC
Zachtgebakken wrote:
This game is starting to look more and more like a magic wizard MMO where you can teleport and cast spells.


CCP we dont need Teleporting ships. You are ruining this game.





It's nothing new.

*points to capital ships and jump portals*
Firzam Aakiwa
Perkone
Caldari State
#782 - 2014-06-02 01:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Firzam Aakiwa
Gregor Parud wrote:
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
OK so if i understand the patch note, I would not be able to fit MMJD on my "NAGA" that have poor tracking against close combat and nothing to counter against scram/web (no drone bay), It's not like "Naga" have either OP tank mod. So why not extend it to attack BC.


Because they have speed, damage projection and are natural kiters themselves.


Speed do nothing against webfiber, "Naga" is a dead ship if he don't warp out after webbed even a simple web drone can do the job. Vulture now are going to be a beast he can kill webfiber with drone and even escape with MMJD have better shield resist, more tracking, Command ship are not the most needed compare to attack battle cruiser


Which part of this logic don't you get? It has the CAPABILITY to kite and engage targets from range, just because there's counters to it (mostly about how the pilot messed up) doesn't mean that's a valid reason to say it needs help. A CBC gets to choose nothing, it's too slow to choose to engage or avoid targets and it lacks projected dps to do anything about it. It has NOTHING going for it, that's why you just don't see them much.

At least TRY and use some sound logic, will ya.


Use your logic you too a Simple CBC can manage a simple frigate with web/scram, CBC have more tracking and have drone bay, lock time not bad, batter tank than Attack Battle Cruiser.
ABC have nothing to deal with it, lock time really slow, when a simple frigate with web/scram warp out near you you're dead, So i suppose that a ABC that cost 10X the price of a frigate have to be catch so easilly and have to look does thing turn around you until you die, So LOL.
Henry Montclaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#783 - 2014-06-02 01:57:22 UTC
I like the modules and wish you could put them on attack battlecruisers. I think a lot of the concerns brought up have been really hyperbolic.
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#784 - 2014-06-02 02:14:45 UTC
It seems that it is a bit late to get input into the implementation of this module in before it is actually launched, but I just want to say that I oppose this modules existence entirely.

The MJD should stay niche to BS' not forcing all smaller engagements to have scramblers.

The only good thing I can say about these modules is that there are only a very limited number of ships that can actually use the, which is the next best thing to them not existing in the first place I guess.
Firzam Aakiwa
Perkone
Caldari State
#785 - 2014-06-02 02:14:58 UTC
Yeh i like the concept of MJD, i think if they allow the Mobile Micro jump drive to be use by fleet members it will give some more dynamic and strategi, like this a tank can set a Mobile Micro jump drive and the lighter ship of a fleet can come after to use the mobile structure and reach the target safely.
Henry Montclaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#786 - 2014-06-02 02:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Montclaire
After reading through more of the thread I've changed my mind. Not only should the jump drive not be implemented for battle cruisers, but afterburners, micro warp drives, warp core stabs, and cloaking devices should also be removed, and warping in general should be nerfed.

Utlimately, I think the only thing that will fix Eve and keep scores of leet pvpers from unsubscribing like roaches scattering under a light is for the ability to warp when an enemy ship lands on grid to be totally abolished, and the old 10km off the gate warp should be reinstated so that leet pvpers have more time to catch other pvpers and engage in epic leet pvp.

We all know that interdictors, warp disruption bubbles, and gate camps are all horribly underpowered and need an emergency buff lest solo pvp die forever.

[End Sarcastic Rant.]

P.S. I agree that the battleship as a class could use some help to make them more relevant outside of massive fleet fights. At present the biggest thing they have going for them is their potential to fit large neuts, since those can effectively cap out and doom smaller ships quite quickly. That's great, but it essentially forces a battleship to fit neuts to deal with smaller ships, and . . . actually . . . Yeah maybe battleships are in a roughly okay place. It would be nice to have more options to apply dps to smaller and faster ships, I think there should be a way to fit a battleship to be an anti frigate and cruiser platform if you want to, just so long as you have to sacrifice your effectiveness against larger ships.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#787 - 2014-06-02 09:30:12 UTC
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Firzam Aakiwa wrote:
OK so if i understand the patch note, I would not be able to fit MMJD on my "NAGA" that have poor tracking against close combat and nothing to counter against scram/web (no drone bay), It's not like "Naga" have either OP tank mod. So why not extend it to attack BC.


Because they have speed, damage projection and are natural kiters themselves.


Speed do nothing against webfiber, "Naga" is a dead ship if he don't warp out after webbed even a simple web drone can do the job. Vulture now are going to be a beast he can kill webfiber with drone and even escape with MMJD have better shield resist, more tracking, Command ship are not the most needed compare to attack battle cruiser


Which part of this logic don't you get? It has the CAPABILITY to kite and engage targets from range, just because there's counters to it (mostly about how the pilot messed up) doesn't mean that's a valid reason to say it needs help. A CBC gets to choose nothing, it's too slow to choose to engage or avoid targets and it lacks projected dps to do anything about it. It has NOTHING going for it, that's why you just don't see them much.

At least TRY and use some sound logic, will ya.


Use your logic you too a Simple CBC can manage a simple frigate with web/scram, CBC have more tracking and have drone bay, lock time not bad, batter tank than Attack Battle Cruiser.
ABC have nothing to deal with it, lock time really slow, when a simple frigate with web/scram warp out near you you're dead, So i suppose that a ABC that cost 10X the price of a frigate have to be catch so easilly and have to look does thing turn around you until you die, So LOL.


Too bad that your logic assumes that people brawl, where in fact the vast majority kites. oops?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#788 - 2014-06-02 09:45:29 UTC
Colman Dietmar wrote:
One thing that's been on my mind, related to MJD, is... why is it that we can warp to some wreck or asteroid in space, but cannot just warp on a set distance in the direction we have aligned to? Why do we need special modules for that, why not make it just a built-in function for all ships (which would be also not immune to any kind of warp disruption)?

It would make combat more dynamic and fluent, making maneuvering a larger part of combat and also accessible to ships bigger than cruiser.



Because would make interceptors and any fast ships as well as long range ships useless.

Also MJD warp at 100 km. THe minimum warp distance is 150 km.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#789 - 2014-06-02 09:49:41 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

Engagements are not usually you vs blob trap, or if yours are, you need to work on your skills mate.



YTES they are! BEcause peopel KNOW us and do never engage us without 5:1 advantage! The only way we can have FIGHTs (and on this ia m not countign stalking and ganking a mission runner, but real fights) is presentign us with a massive numerican disadvantage. And when we do that the ONLY way to apply skill in this game is range control and forcing the enemy gang toseparate.

That is why forcign everythign into brwaling is stupid. Brawling has ZERO space for pilot skills. Brawling is approach and FIRE and spam neeed armor on fleet channel.


Combat must include MORE mobility, MORE kiting not less. COmbat must prize the inteligence, not press aproach and F1.





Much rage and hyperbole? I've never heard of you or your corp and I sincerely doubt anyone else would know you either. And even if you were from a known PVP corp, your argument still wouldn't hold true. Nobody blobs anyone just because they are from a certain corp.

Your understanding of competent brawling appears flawed, approach & F1 works only in very limited situations where the outcome was pretty much decided on the fitting screen. This is exactly the same as in easy kiting fights- press orbit and F1. However, most engagements require the same piloting skills: manual flying, target prioritising, module micromanagement (active tanking is much more prominent in brawling than kiting), knowing when to disengage and having the skills required to accomplish that.

I have a few thousand solo and small gang kills across my characters, and I've flown both kiting and brawling set ups across all the ship classes (well ok, never flown the only kiting bs) and I honestly can't agree with your "intelligence and skills" argument favouring kiting. They are simply different methods, each with their strengths and right times and places.


If you do not know us, then you have not operated in high sec for last 1 year. Simple as that.

I do not need you to agree with my arguments, the intelligence of them assures that they do not need support of inferior and limited minds. Truth can be achieved regardless of the amount of ants that believe or not into it.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#790 - 2014-06-02 11:20:10 UTC
Hisec? Are you serious? I thought we were discussing PVP.

Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#791 - 2014-06-02 19:17:01 UTC
Hooray!

Another magical get out of jail free card for the risk-adverse carebear from our friends at CCP!
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#792 - 2014-06-02 19:39:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Xylorn Hasher
Gregor Parud wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Im only happy that Elite Dangerous will be deployed this year... Time to forget bout Eve I guess.
CCPs idiotic ideas like this one ruin game enterly. For them it's just Medium Micro Jump Drive, but for people who hunt in lowsec it will be disaster.
First people with 5 Stabs on ships, now this sh*t.
I'll think very hard if to pay subs for my 3 accounts or not next time.

CCP you are going in wrong direction for a long time. We need a real expanssion of a scale of Apocrypha not another "let's make this game more idiot friendly" one.



Yes, we can't have solo people get away from your lol-kiting OP gangs, can we. I mean, wtf man. They're ruining low sec with their solo PVP, they should just die and be happy about it!


I don't see where is your problem here.
Yes we use good ships and good setups.
Yes we feel comfortable to fight in 1-2 Bills worth T3s and with 3-4 Bills worth implants in our heads on dayly basis.
Guy lost ~80m, we were risking ~6 Bills each ( It could be cyno ship, bait - you never know ).

Another thing man, semi good fitted Prophecy - 500 DPS at least + 300 DPS from gate guns. Try to fight that yourself you will see how close it is to die in fire in such conditions.

Then, try do all above in cloaky Loki I use.

With latest changes we are forced to use +3 True Sasha Warp scramblers or even two on ship because warp disruptors became obsolete.
Most people use stabs you see.
You think killing is an easy job?
Imagine that most of time we have to watch targets for long time before they do a mistake and Its not fun to waste 2 hours of waiting for guy who is stabbed to teeth in situation when cloak + MWD - a tactic old like Eve itself would save him from 99% of camps.
But cloak+ WMD requires a skill and a bit of nerves to do it right while stabs are foolproof.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#793 - 2014-06-02 21:24:27 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Im only happy that Elite Dangerous will be deployed this year... Time to forget bout Eve I guess.
CCPs idiotic ideas like this one ruin game enterly. For them it's just Medium Micro Jump Drive, but for people who hunt in lowsec it will be disaster.
First people with 5 Stabs on ships, now this sh*t.
I'll think very hard if to pay subs for my 3 accounts or not next time.

CCP you are going in wrong direction for a long time. We need a real expanssion of a scale of Apocrypha not another "let's make this game more idiot friendly" one.



Yes, we can't have solo people get away from your lol-kiting OP gangs, can we. I mean, wtf man. They're ruining low sec with their solo PVP, they should just die and be happy about it!


I don't see where is your problem here.
Yes we use good ships and good setups.
Yes we feel comfortable to fight in 1-2 Bills worth T3s and with 3-4 Bills worth implants in our heads on dayly basis.
Guy lost ~80m, we were risking ~6 Bills each ( It could be cyno ship, bait - you never know ).

Another thing man, semi good fitted Prophecy - 500 DPS at least + 300 DPS from gate guns. Try to fight that yourself you will see how close it is to die in fire in such conditions.

Then, try do all above in cloaky Loki I use.

With latest changes we are forced to use +3 True Sasha Warp scramblers or even two on ship because warp disruptors became obsolete.
Most people use stabs you see.
You think killing is an easy job?
Imagine that most of time we have to watch targets for long time before they do a mistake and Its not fun to waste 2 hours of waiting for guy who is stabbed to teeth in situation when cloak + MWD - a tactic old like Eve itself would save him from 99% of camps.
But cloak+ WMD requires a skill and a bit of nerves to do it right while stabs are foolproof.


Keep digging.
Maraner
The Executioners
#794 - 2014-06-02 22:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Maraner
I'm glad this module is coming for CBCs

Really really glad.

I'm going to use it to shove my harbinger up your Ishtars ass. Repeatedly.

The kiting setups have been a cancer on this game. You get to keep range and drop your drones, nothing can catch you and you get to sit back and announce to yourself that your a leet pvper for pounding slow ships with short engagement windows to death whilst somehow thinking this is a fair or equal fight. Yes yes I know there are no fair fights, this is Eve. But to paraphrase poorly some fights are fairer than others.

When we gate camp we do it with a boosted proteus at zero on the gate, this means that we can get hot dropped and you know have a fight. My corp runs with large numbers of scrams not points for a reason. And tbh if a battlecruiser jumps into a gate that we are on in low sec I would say it is killed almost 100% of the time, cloak or stabs do not help.

So roll on the MJD. I don't see it as a get out of jail free card, I see it as a weapon to be used to close the range, engage scram and club you to death.

Perhaps the people that like to kite can go look for each other and kite each other to boredom. Roll on Kronos, back to BS and BC fleets.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#795 - 2014-06-03 09:41:36 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Hisec? Are you serious? I thought we were discussing PVP.



4/5 of the targets in eve are in high sec. It is not our fault that the richest hunting grounds are here.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#796 - 2014-06-03 09:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Maraner wrote:
I'm glad this module is coming for CBCs

Really really glad.

I'm going to use it to shove my harbinger up your Ishtars ass. Repeatedly.

The kiting setups have been a cancer on this game. You get to keep range and drop your drones, nothing can catch you and you get to sit back and announce to yourself that your a leet pvper for pounding slow ships with short engagement windows to death whilst somehow thinking this is a fair or equal fight. Yes yes I know there are no fair fights, this is Eve. But to paraphrase poorly some fights are fairer than others.

When we gate camp we do it with a boosted proteus at zero on the gate, this means that we can get hot dropped and you know have a fight. My corp runs with large numbers of scrams not points for a reason. And tbh if a battlecruiser jumps into a gate that we are on in low sec I would say it is killed almost 100% of the time, cloak or stabs do not help.

So roll on the MJD. I don't see it as a get out of jail free card, I see it as a weapon to be used to close the range, engage scram and club you to death.

Perhaps the people that like to kite can go look for each other and kite each other to boredom. Roll on Kronos, back to BS and BC fleets.



Nope. They have not been. Kiting is one of the 2 only ways LEFT in game that a group can engage large superior numbers of enemies. The other is massive logistic [email protected]#[email protected]##!..


Anyone that use any other way of combat is relyign on numeric superiority, or enemy stupidity to not lose.


The constant nerfing of everything like kitign is the cancer on this game, that pushes more and more into a BLOB only game.

Contrary to the myth, msot of the kiters are much more likely to stay and fight than to run away. In fact peopel use kitign ships sothey can STAY and FIGHT, not run away as soon as more targets appear in local.

So the cowards are not the kitters, its EXACLTY the other way around.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#797 - 2014-06-03 10:03:53 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Nope. They have not been. Kiting is one of the 2 only ways LEFT in game that a group can engage large superior numbers of enemies. The other is massive logistic [email protected]#[email protected]##!..


Anyone that use any other way of combat is relyign on numeric superiority, or enemy stupidity to not lose.


The constant nerfing of everything like kitign is the cancer on this game, that pushes more and more into a BLOB only game.

Contrary to the myth, msot of the kiters are much more likely to stay and fight than to run away. In fact peopel use kitign ships sothey can STAY and FIGHT, not run away as soon as more targets appear in local.

So the cowards are not the kitters, its EXACLTY the other way around.


Your sperging would have merit if the vast majority of ships you run into in pvp (you know; outside the jita 4-4 undock) would be CBC. But they're not and that won't at all change. All that'll happen is some soloers and small gangs (will) use CBC and that means you still get to kite the masses and feel superior about it, you just won't have an easy kill on a (solo) CBC simply because you favour running away.

As I put it earlier; you're just scared of losing kills, nothing more.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#798 - 2014-06-03 10:16:15 UTC
Jethro Winchester wrote:
Hooray!

Another magical get out of jail free card for the risk-adverse carebear from our friends at CCP!



These posts are brilliant.

How do you catch said "risk-adverse carebear"?

Solution: Fit a scram!

But wait, then you complain you might die.....

Remind me, who is the carebear again?


If you want risk free engagements, the asteroids are over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#799 - 2014-06-03 11:11:23 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Because would make interceptors and any fast ships as well as long range ships useless.


But it would not. The fast ships can chase warping BCs and bigger because of the slow warp speed. Speed-fit interceptors could even chase cruisers. Long range ships would be able to warp-kite if something attempts to warp next to them. Similiar techniques are already used, but require premade tacticals or an interceptor to provide a rolling warp spot.
Chuxies Hareka
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#800 - 2014-06-03 20:32:15 UTC
Wow not gonna lie ccp this is silly the whole point was to use it on a oracle or a talos why cant you use them on T3 cruisers?!

Make it useful, let t3 battlecruisers use it!