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[Kronos] Deep Space Transport Rebalance

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Dave Stark
#261 - 2014-05-20 15:11:43 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual.

and now none of them fit in an orca.
Sael Va'Tauri
Morgan Industry
Silent Infinity
#262 - 2014-05-20 15:23:26 UTC
Any chance of replacing the velocity bonus with something unique to each ship? It would, potentially make them a little more unique with some racial flavor. For example:

Mastadon:
replace 5% velocity w/ 5% agility. Very minmitar - its the "fast" DST.

Occator:
Replace 5% velocity w/ 5m3 dronebay and bandwith. It then follows the Nereus as being able to defend itself with drones - and who doesn't like the idea of having people think twice about attacking without scanning, as the ship could be (probably is?) bait.

Prorator:
Replace 5% velocity w/ 5% armor per level. Follows Amarr armor tank lines, while also providing some interesting choices - fit Armor plates which don't follow the new role bonus, or stick with the role bonus hardeners and reppers, or maybe both.

Bustard:
Replace 5% velocity w/ 5% cargo per level. Follows *continues?) the theme set by the Charon, where Caldari bring extra cargo. It won't be a huge bonus as the cargo bay is already small(ish), but that could be reinforced in base stats by increasing the base cargo bay.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#263 - 2014-05-20 15:37:38 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual.

and now none of them fit in an orca.


Good. That would have been a free 50k m3 unscannable cargo bay to the orca.
Dave Stark
#264 - 2014-05-20 15:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual.

and now none of them fit in an orca.


Good. That would have been a free 50k m3 unscannable cargo bay to the orca.


but that's fine in other ships?
the orca can already do the whole "unscannable cargo bay" thing anyway; you just use exploration frigates.

not to mention, one of the DST's few uses will be for mining as a way of not having to put your orca on grid while retaining the "mobile secure jetcan with tractor beams" thing. so it would be nice, that a ship used in a mining operation would fit in my industrial command ship.
Tharin Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#265 - 2014-05-20 15:43:57 UTC
As funny as it would be to walk heavy Dominixes into our next C1 POCO bash... are you nuts Fozzie?
You're willing to change:

  • The entire meta of C1 space
  • The ability of Orca's to carry DST's at all
  • The ability of any other SMA to carry multiple of the same

In order to give the DST a 50K m3 fleet bay. Why not give it a 10-25K m3 fleet bay, up the size of the general bay to something useful, and NOT do the above things? You're not going to end up with BS's in C1's, and all your other ships can still carry multiple DSTs if they have the need.
Jattila Vrek
Green Visstick High
#266 - 2014-05-20 15:45:31 UTC
As long as they remain useless for nullsec gate travel, so you need that carrier to move them, why not give them jump capability instead? Now it's only role is to make all T1 industrials absolete.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#267 - 2014-05-20 15:47:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual.

and now none of them fit in an orca.


Good. That would have been a free 50k m3 unscannable cargo bay to the orca.


but that's fine in other ships?
the orca can already do the whole "unscannable cargo bay" thing anyway; you just use exploration frigates.

not to mention, one of the DST's few uses will be for mining as a way of not having to put your orca on grid while retaining the "mobile secure jetcan with tractor beams" thing. so it would be nice, that a ship used in a mining operation would fit in my industrial command ship.


At least it wouldn't 50.000 m3.
Regardless making them over 500.000 ensures you can't get more than 1 in a capital which is the keypoint. There are other ways to get hidden cargo, but that won't be fixed for ages to come. No reason to add more.
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#268 - 2014-05-20 15:53:15 UTC
Tharin Malkyre wrote:
As funny as it would be to walk heavy Dominixes into our next C1 POCO bash... are you nuts Fozzie?
You're willing to change:

  • The entire meta of C1 space
  • The ability of Orca's to carry DST's at all
  • The ability of any other SMA to carry multiple of the same

In order to give the DST a 50K m3 fleet bay. Why not give it a 10-25K m3 fleet bay, up the size of the general bay to something useful, and NOT do the above things? You're not going to end up with BS's in C1's, and all your other ships can still carry multiple DSTs if they have the need.

+1

This would also not buff riskless freighter/hauler ganking even more as pointed out here.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dave Stark
#269 - 2014-05-20 15:59:22 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual.

and now none of them fit in an orca.


Good. That would have been a free 50k m3 unscannable cargo bay to the orca.


but that's fine in other ships?
the orca can already do the whole "unscannable cargo bay" thing anyway; you just use exploration frigates.

not to mention, one of the DST's few uses will be for mining as a way of not having to put your orca on grid while retaining the "mobile secure jetcan with tractor beams" thing. so it would be nice, that a ship used in a mining operation would fit in my industrial command ship.


At least it wouldn't 50.000 m3.
Regardless making them over 500.000 ensures you can't get more than 1 in a capital which is the keypoint. There are other ways to get hidden cargo, but that won't be fixed for ages to come. No reason to add more.


then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face.

one of the few worth while uses a DST will have, just took a hit to the viability when you can't use your orca to transport it to your next mining spot.
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#270 - 2014-05-20 16:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Grarr Dexx
this is freaking hilarious, nerf force projection on JFs but then give DSTs the power to be snuggled into a ship maint bay of a carrier, a ship that has an 14.675LY jump radius, more than 3 lightyears further than a JF.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#271 - 2014-05-20 16:09:29 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face.


Fozzie is right here in this thread. Go ahead and argue for your case.
Good luck, you'll need it.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#272 - 2014-05-20 16:26:38 UTC
does nerfing capitals even need to be argued?
Sael Va'Tauri
Morgan Industry
Silent Infinity
#273 - 2014-05-20 16:31:40 UTC
For the fleet hanger allowing battleships into worm holes, why not just change the DST fleet hanger to 37,500 m3 base, and increase the cargo holds to ~6,000 base? The fleet hanger then tops out at almost 50,000 (46,875m3) at level 5 when actively equipped (not enough for the packaged BS), but when not active and stored in a carrier it doesn't store as much either. Additionally, it can be fit to haul similar or a little more than the current proposed changes if you ignore any tank.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#274 - 2014-05-20 16:41:57 UTC
Tharin Malkyre wrote:
As funny as it would be to walk heavy Dominixes into our next C1 POCO bash... are you nuts Fozzie?
You're willing to change:

  • The entire meta of C1 space
  • The ability of Orca's to carry DST's at all
  • The ability of any other SMA to carry multiple of the same

In order to give the DST a 50K m3 fleet bay. Why not give it a 10-25K m3 fleet bay, up the size of the general bay to something useful, and NOT do the above things? You're not going to end up with BS's in C1's, and all your other ships can still carry multiple DSTs if they have the need.


Requoting because +1.

Also, I dislike the homogenization happening to DST's and BR's.

IMHO, I'ld request more community input on industrial ship rebalancing. It seems to me the strength of the dev's lies chiefly with pvp ships.
Ron Mexxico
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#275 - 2014-05-20 16:48:02 UTC
if i have a DST in my super SMA can i drag/drop mods from the DST fleet hangar to my super fleet hangar?
Dave Stark
#276 - 2014-05-20 16:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face.


Fozzie is right here in this thread. Go ahead and argue for your case.
Good luck, you'll need it.


i honestly don't care one way or another what happens. having DSTs being useful for mining [which is a waste of time as it is] doesn't really matter much, although it was about the only use i could come up with for these ships since there ships superior to the DST in every way already available.
Jaz Antollare
SovNarKom.
Goonswarm Federation
#277 - 2014-05-20 16:55:27 UTC
I dont really understand the purpose of the overheat effect bonus.... O_o" ShockedRoll
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#278 - 2014-05-20 16:56:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face.


Fozzie is right here in this thread. Go ahead and argue for your case.
Good luck, you'll need it.


i honestly don't care one way or another what happens. having DSTs being useful for mining [which is a waste of time as it is] doesn't really matter much, although it was about the only use i could come up with for these ships since there ships superior to the DST in every way already available.


With the ability to put these in your carrier, DST will be the most used subcap hauler in the game. Period.
Blockade runners, t1 haulers and similar will not have remotely close to the same amount of usage if Kronos goes live with the ability to put DSTs in your carrier SMA. It will literally be every 0.0 carrier pilot's must-have.
So you don't have to wonder about their uses, it will be (ab)used. It's just a very bastarded way to use it, which is a shame.

But besides this, it will be a great substitution for rorquals and similar when putting up towers. You can carry fuel, stront, tower and some useful hangars all in one go.
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#279 - 2014-05-20 17:03:36 UTC
Sael Va'Tauri wrote:

Bustard:
Replace 5% velocity w/ 5% cargo per level. Follows *continues?) the theme set by the Charon, where Caldari bring extra cargo. It won't be a huge bonus as the cargo bay is already small(ish), but that could be reinforced in base stats by increasing the base cargo bay.

Comedy 'replace velocity bonus with small missile launcher damage/rof bonus' option.

Or MMJD charge time bonus though really.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here
Dave Stark
#280 - 2014-05-20 17:09:26 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face.


Fozzie is right here in this thread. Go ahead and argue for your case.
Good luck, you'll need it.


i honestly don't care one way or another what happens. having DSTs being useful for mining [which is a waste of time as it is] doesn't really matter much, although it was about the only use i could come up with for these ships since there ships superior to the DST in every way already available.


With the ability to put these in your carrier, DST will be the most used subcap hauler in the game. Period.
Blockade runners, t1 haulers and similar will not have remotely close to the same amount of usage if Kronos goes live with the ability to put DSTs in your carrier SMA. It will literally be every 0.0 carrier pilot's must-have.
So you don't have to wonder about their uses, it will be (ab)used. It's just a very bastarded way to use it, which is a shame.

But besides this, it will be a great substitution for rorquals and similar when putting up towers. You can carry fuel, stront, tower and some useful hangars all in one go.


so basically it's going to be a 140m container, rather than an actual ship.
does the fact that it's near only use is a giant shoe box mean it's a successful rebalance? or an unsuccessful one?