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I'm going to preface this by getting a few points out there about my own experience in the game, in hopes of avoiding the "nullsec is awesome and elite and everyone else are scaredy-noobs" trolls.

I've been playing the game since late 2008. I have five active subscriptions which I actually PAY for.

I have lived and pewed in nullsec, lowsec & w-space for extended periods (about a year each). I've done FW. I've built & researched almost everything. I've done trade, industry, mining, exploration, etc.. I was a ninja-salvager with Suddenly Ninjas for years. Until recently I was part of Marmite (largely highsec PvP). I've ganked and been ganked. I've infiltrated corps and had corps infiltrated. I've even taken "a break" and once left the game completely for half a year. I have done it all, enjoyed most of it, made good friends and given CCP a LOT of money in exchange for that.

Change happens. I've seen it countless times. Sometimes I benefited from the changes, sometimes I lost huge amounts of ISK. I've lucked into situations where changes saved me months of skill training, and have trained alts for specific purposes only to have a change render months of training useless for my purpose. Sometimes change is great. Sometimes it sucks. Get over it. :)

These industry changes, though, are a symptom of a larger issue that has been making Eve much less fun for me over the last few years.

Mabrick captures it well: Building Better Worlds for Whom? Though I completely disagree with his idea that we should stop ganking in highsec, his other points are IMHO bang-on.

Ultimately it comes down the the fact that CCP has been gradually and relentlessly trying to FORCE me to play in nullsec, partially through efforts to make highsec safer & more new-player-friendly (let's nerf ninja salvaging and add safeties to our ships). These industry changes, however, won't help drive new subs and will probably have the opposite impact by making production in highsec very low-profit (if profitable at all). CCP has been clear that they want to promote "risk vs reward" which really means "let's force experienced players to nullsec". What CCP is doing is making it impossible for me to choose to play this "sandbox" game in a way that I enjoy. They are (and have been, slowly over time) eliminating my options and effectively forcing me to play the way THEY want me to, or quit. That sucks. Look at Skyrim's success. Look at Civilization. Look at Eve's early success... Now look at *insert game with strict linear story-line here*. Remember it? No? Because they fail! People like choice and hate being forced into things. We get enough of that in RL.

I've done nullsec & IMHO it sucks. If I wanted to be part of some mega-organization with a management structure driven by 20-somethings with power/self-esteem issues, I'd quit the game and spend my free time at work instead. I didn't join Eve to have that experience. I didn't join Eve to pay "rent" to a mega-corp for the privilege of getting access to a third-rate system with an empty local or to spend 12 hours in a TiDi slow-mo battle. I joined Eve to be my own person - I joined to explore a sandbox, make my own decisions, build relationships, make stuff, buy stuff, sell stuff, profit and to destroy other peoples stuff. I've been to nullsec. I've got the t-shirt. It's not fun for me.

And that's ok. There are lots of people out there that have a different opinion of nullsec. It's their choice to live and play in nullsec. It's my choice to live in highsec and make forays into low, null and w-space when I want to. That's the key word here, CHOICE. Changes like this and CCP's 'risk vs reward' piling-on of benefits for nullsec play, have gotten ridiculous. I thought it was bad when they led all those lambs to slaughter during that live-event a few months ago, but it just doesn't stop. And nullsec is not nearly as "risky" as some like to claim. Nullsec can be very very dull and in some instances safer than highsec (depending on how/where you play).

If it would drive new subs I could buy into changes like this (or at least chalk it up to 's*** happens, get over it'), but these changes aren't about that. They're aimed squarely at FORCING experienced players into null.

Three of my accounts are focused on the highsec industry value-chain I've built and love managing. I can pick it up when I have a few spare minutes (unlike PvP, which I only do when I have time to do it properly). I have 100+ billion invested in BPO's, towers, mining ships, stock & transport ships but even without the details I can see that the only way to maintain these activities profitably is to move to null. Not by choice, but as a direct result of the changes CCP is proposing. Since I don't enjoy doing industry in nullsec my choices come down to maintaining an unprofitable/borderline business in highsec or leaving the business and focusing on other stuff.

I'm resigned to leaving the business - my free time is too valuable (cost & risk vs reward).

When the game time runs out on those three industry-focused accounts they won't be renewed. I've stopped training my industry and transport toons and am breeding toons on those accounts for sale. The stations are on the market. The BPO's will be researched until after the summer changes, then sold.

I'm not rage-quitting - I'm keeping 2 accounts for PvP - but Eve no longer gets my (frequent) casual game time. In the last week alone I've bought The Stick of Truth, Total War and other games. They give me CHOICES and are a really fun way to spend 30-60 minutes a day.

Stop eliminating player choice, Mmmkay? It's bad.

your entire post can be summarized as "you can't have rewards in nullsec, because I am in highsec!"

a player now who wishes to do industry must be in highsec. post-patch, a player faces a choice with tradeoffs, and can be in either null or highsec

you are whining up a storm over this new choice and trying to paint it as a choice elimination. it's not, you're just whining because highsec industry is no longer better in every way than 0.0

i think the HS sub gains will outpace the HS sub losses.

I guess we disagree then, the difference is that my conclusion is based on the logic of the issue without regard to emotion. There are many, many industrialists like me who have multiple subscriptions(6), that are rethinking the amount of time and effort that goes into building a large successful industry corp. If faced with the choice of either playing just as long/hard for significantly less return and vastly increased risk or moving my operation to Null and dealing with the prepubescent corps/alliances/players that reside out there or alternately dropping several of my subscriptions and playing more ESO, Star Citizen etc. Many of us will just choose to do something that is more accepting of our gaming style.

There will always be spikes and valleys in sub rates in an MMO, what makes(made) Eve unique was that the learning curve weeded out the casual and left you with a core group of devoted members. When you limit the style of play that a segment wants then you limit the number of people who want to play. This would hold true of any style of play, if CCP decided tomorrow that there would be no ganking in HS they would lose sub's as a result of that decision.

What are these new limitations you keep talking about? All I see are limitations being removed. Basically it seems from your post like your evaluations about being successful were wrong and your profits simply propped up by artificial barriers which are now being torn down and are forcing you to actually compete with a wider range of individuals.

Another entertaining bit was claiming no emotional influence yet feeling the need to resort to name calling.

I have the feeling, this turns into a "grr null" vs. "grr hisec" trench warfare...
Although i am heavily invested in highsec industry around T2 production, i really welcome the basic ideas behind the proposed changes (and unfortunately agree with a good portion of the goony statements). But (and that's a freakin huge BUT) on the other hand, until CCP provides us actual hard numbers, i keep being afraid, because this has a damn big potential on backfiring in epic ways if implemented poorly...

Therefore i dearly hope, that the next blogs on the list get out soon (without the ™), so we can have a knowledgable discussion instead of the bitching about why a certain area of space is inferior/superior/poorer/lamer/safer/whatsoeva

So please CCP, throw out more information!

The best part of this thread is when people admit they don't know the first thing about nullsec mechanics. After having been arguing the merits of a change that impacts null and highsec. If you want to be successful in this game or at least successful at arguing the mechanics within it, perhaps it might be useful to actually know mechanics beyond your small corner of the game.

Shocking concept I know.

yeah i think we can all agree on MAKE WITH THE REST OF THE BLOGS AAAUGH

meaning the person has been very specific and accurate in describing a bad attitude

I guess we disagree then, the difference is that my conclusion is based on the logic of the issue without regard to emotion. There are many, many industrialists like me who have multiple subscriptions(6), that are rethinking the amount of time and effort that goes into building a large successful industry corp. If faced with the choice of either playing just as long/hard for significantly less return and vastly increased risk or moving my operation to Null and dealing with the prepubescent corps/alliances/players that reside out there or alternately dropping several of my subscriptions and playing more ESO, Star Citizen etc. Many of us will just choose to do something that is more accepting of our gaming style.

There will always be spikes and valleys in sub rates in an MMO, what makes(made) Eve unique was that the learning curve weeded out the casual and left you with a core group of devoted members. When you limit the style of play that a segment wants then you limit the number of people who want to play. This would hold true of any style of play, if CCP decided tomorrow that there would be no ganking in HS they would lose sub's as a result of that decision.

What are these new limitations you keep talking about? All I see are limitations being removed.