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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1401 - 2014-03-23 18:24:44 UTC
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
Also its not good that the PoS module assumes max skill. Why train 200 days of skills if I can just use a PoS for almost max skill refine? And what about the rorqual? Where is its role now?

Also isn't the now required 200 days training time a bit much? Maybe shrink it down alot?

Right now you have to put about 5.5 million SP in resorce processing, after this it will be almost 20 million. BIG JUMP. More so than tech 2 guns even.


Thats 200 days to refine everything. If you just want trit it will be much much faster.
Inspiration
#1402 - 2014-03-23 18:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
TravelBuoy wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big changes coming! Big smile


And the nerds will be happy, when this crap nerfbat come.
CCP Fozzy aka. Pandemic Legion exmember Raivi, why dont go to.... with ur nerfs ????

Picture from this nerf :http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/Reprocessingrates.png


I hate you, not for being right, but for wasting my time (see my sticky forum message). Things change and everything is relative, so deal with it like everyone else. Your loss will be absolutely puny compared to what others have had to soak up in the past with changes you very likely welcomed.

CCP now introduces some light economic and social realism and just made the sandbox a little bit bigger and more varied. Not all sand is now 100% recyclable anymore and the grass elsewhere gets a bit greener then that other patch over there. Which by any measure is much better then introducing magic items like with some of the recently introduced deployables. I for one welcome the change and applaud them for it. CCP might just have gotten the message this time around.

And you know what happens with those that cannot adapt or are unable to grasp the changing challenges in their surroundings right? In the wild they go extinct, elsewhere they become socialist and poor...while sweating fear and crying all kinds of nonsense.

To what group do you plan to belong?

I am serious!

Salvos Rhoska
#1403 - 2014-03-23 18:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Blog could be renamed:
"Reprocess all your things before the nerf!"

I'm only half-joking.
We all actually quite seriously have to reprocess our junk stockpiles before the changes hit.
"Junkicide"

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Malcolm Lionel
Lionel War Industries
Gooseflock Featheration
#1404 - 2014-03-23 18:55:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Lionel
baltec1 wrote:
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
Also its not good that the PoS module assumes max skill. Why train 200 days of skills if I can just use a PoS for almost max skill refine? And what about the rorqual? Where is its role now?

Also isn't the now required 200 days training time a bit much? Maybe shrink it down alot?

Right now you have to put about 5.5 million SP in resorce processing, after this it will be almost 20 million. BIG JUMP. More so than tech 2 guns even.


Thats 200 days to refine everything. If you just want trit it will be much much faster.




If your a serious miner your going to want to be able to refine everything at perfect levels to get the most out of your activity. Hence 20 million skill points now required instead of previous 5.5 million for perfect.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1405 - 2014-03-23 19:06:17 UTC
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
Also its not good that the PoS module assumes max skill. Why train 200 days of skills if I can just use a PoS for almost max skill refine? And what about the rorqual? Where is its role now?

Also isn't the now required 200 days training time a bit much? Maybe shrink it down alot?

Right now you have to put about 5.5 million SP in resorce processing, after this it will be almost 20 million. BIG JUMP. More so than tech 2 guns even.


Thats 200 days to refine everything. If you just want trit it will be much much faster.




If your a serious miner your going to want to be able to refine everything at perfect levels to get the most out of your activity. Hence 20 million skill points now required instead of previous 5.5 million for perfect.


I have spent the last 3 years training skills for my Megathron, I'm not finished yet.
Inspiration
#1406 - 2014-03-23 19:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
Also its not good that the PoS module assumes max skill. Why train 200 days of skills if I can just use a PoS for almost max skill refine? And what about the rorqual? Where is its role now?

Also isn't the now required 200 days training time a bit much? Maybe shrink it down alot?

Right now you have to put about 5.5 million SP in resorce processing, after this it will be almost 20 million. BIG JUMP. More so than tech 2 guns even.


Thats 200 days to refine everything. If you just want trit it will be much much faster.




If your a serious miner your going to want to be able to refine everything. Hence 20 million skill points now required instead of previous 5.5 million for perfect.


You are misrepresenting the situation...


Seriously, what makes a serious miner? Lots of mining or mining each and every ore in existence? Most miners will only deal with low end ores that the level 5s refining are easy to train for. A high sec miner doesn't need ABC processing at all!

Also mining is mostly a group (or many alts) activity. Just one character of the group needs to have standings, skills and implants to refine. When using a POS to compress, even less is needed in skill points then is now! as you can skip the manufacturing and reprocessing bit altogether A miner will stay like before a miner and does not need to go above level 4 for specific ores which is enough to use T2 crystals.

If you take a look at the whole chain from ore to sales in Jita, there will be a shift. Some skills aren't needed anymore like production, while a bit more refining is needed or simply the use of a POS. Overall i think less SP will be needed for future miners trying to make a buck from mining ore.

I am serious!

Amely Miles
Second Exile
#1407 - 2014-03-23 19:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Amely Miles
after reading 40 pages i got tired and skipped ahead to page 70

i would like to point out that this might affect the current market Hubs

if people are buying compressed ore locally and most of industry has moved to null
then will it not stand to reason that people will stop going to jita amarr dodixie rens and save on JF fuel and just buy from the nearest low sec or null sec market hub instead?

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Inspiration
#1408 - 2014-03-23 19:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Amely Miles wrote:
after reading 40 pages i got tired and skipped ahead to page 70

i would like to point out that this might affect the current market Hubs

if people are buying compressed ore locally and most of industry has moved to null
then will it not stand to reason that people will stop going to jita amarr dodixie rens and save on JF fuel and just buy from the nearest low sec or null sec market hub instead?


That would be a wonderful outcome...but i think they need to do more to make "life" outside Jita a fact. It is however a nudge in the right direction!

I am serious!

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1409 - 2014-03-23 19:15:05 UTC
Malcolm Lionel wrote:

If your a serious miner your going to want to be able to refine everything at perfect levels to get the most out of your activity. Hence 20 million skill points now required instead of previous 5.5 million for perfect.

Or compress the ore and move it to market. You don't have to refine it to get paid.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#1410 - 2014-03-23 19:20:46 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Seriously, what makes a serious miner? Lots of mining or mining each and every ore in existence? Most miners will only deal with low end ores that the level 5s refining are easy to train for. A high sec miner doesn't need ABC processing at all!
Also, isn't EVE all about specializing? Why not finally restrict "perfect results" to those who follow the path of all related skills at maximum?

It's true that until now we didn't have to. At least not for reprocessing. But nearly any other task provided an increase in performance when all skills are maxed out and improved further with implants.

Why not expand this to reprocessing? Because it wasn't so before? Because it's inconvenient for those affected? Nothing unusual, right?

NPE – ISD – RIP
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1411 - 2014-03-23 19:28:20 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Did someone mention botting in nullsec?


yeah we see that high sec has more bots, but still Deklein for example have the same number bots as Kador or some other high sec regions. where bots more profitable? can you tell me from that graph who really owns these bots?

just use logic and answer who needs more isk ?:

1) that cowards high sec bear who affraid leave highsec

2) pvper who lose ships or wana get shiny super

3) and person who trying get real money out of game

seems some people just trying to close that thread... if you have what to say then use your arguments and logic

we have here discussion about summer changes some like it, some don't

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1412 - 2014-03-23 19:44:58 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big changes coming! Big smile


And the nerds will be happy, when this crap nerfbat come.
CCP Fozzy aka. Pandemic Legion exmember Raivi, why dont go to.... with ur nerfs ????

Picture from this nerf :http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/Reprocessingrates.png


I hate you, not for being right, but for wasting my time (see my sticky forum message). Things change....


No, the nerds like u dont change.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1413 - 2014-03-23 19:45:40 UTC
Emuar wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Did someone mention botting in nullsec?


yeah we see that high sec has more bots, but still Deklein for example have the same number bots as Kador or some other high sec regions. where bots more profitable? can you tell me from that graph who really owns these bots?

just use logic and answer who needs more isk ?:

1) that cowards high sec bear who affraid leave highsec

2) pvper who lose ships or wana get shiny super

3) and person who trying get real money out of game

seems some people just trying to close that thread... if you have what to say then use your arguments and logic

we have here discussion about summer changes some like it, some don't


Well, if bots are in Deklein, Vale, Tribute, Tenal, then it's clear who's bots they are.

Regarding your question #2: My answer is 3. PVPers don't need money because all the ships are free and come for no cost anyways, they just grow on trees. High sec mission runners also need money to buy new bling after a gank or to upgrade from green to blue to purple. But 3 needs the most ISK because you need to make your living with it.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1414 - 2014-03-23 19:55:15 UTC
Amely Miles wrote:
after reading 40 pages i got tired and skipped ahead to page 70

i would like to point out that this might affect the current market Hubs

if people are buying compressed ore locally and most of industry has moved to null
then will it not stand to reason that people will stop going to jita amarr dodixie rens and save on JF fuel and just buy from the nearest low sec or null sec market hub instead?


that won't happen after summer

those who manufacturing supers, caps will benefit from that, they will get upper hand in items manufacturing and maybe will get some more renters. at this point it is cheaper research t2 in sov null because of less fuel for pos. it is cheaper to do reactions in sov null. though they want to be best at everything.

real problems why industry is stagnating in null depends a lot from mentality and leadership, roles management mechanics and so on.

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1415 - 2014-03-23 19:57:43 UTC
Emuar wrote:


real problems why industry is stagnating in null depends a lot from mentality and leadership, roles management mechanics and so on.


Wrong. The only thing that stops us is the fact that it is cheaper to just import everything from jita.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1416 - 2014-03-23 20:10:32 UTC
I hate to be the wet blanket, here.

Well, that's not true, I enjoy the hell out of it.

Nevertheless, that Fanfest slide you guys are passing around is from 2012. It's a bit dated.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1417 - 2014-03-23 20:37:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Emuar wrote:


real problems why industry is stagnating in null depends a lot from mentality and leadership, roles management mechanics and so on.


Wrong. The only thing that stops us is the fact that it is cheaper to just import everything from jita.


so evil high sec traders and industrialists use magic to spown all moon mining materials for t2 production and all high end minerals coming from high sec belts and evil risk free wh dwellers helping evil high sec bears to live in prosperity while poor sov null can only have 200% SRP, pay sov bills for hundreds systems (mostly empty). where have you got money to buy everything from jita?

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1418 - 2014-03-23 20:53:10 UTC
if we believe what Baltec1 say:

"Wrong. The only thing that stops us is the fact that it is cheaper to just import everything from jita."

all sov null problems will be fixed if jita traders increase resell margins.

Tell us, Baltec1, how much do we need to rise price on everything? 20% would be enough?

CCP easily can increase station trading tax to any lvl, so price will go up. Tell that to your GSF member at CSM.

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
stoicfaux
#1419 - 2014-03-23 20:55:27 UTC
We need POCO style (i.e. "public") Refining/Compression Arrays for high-sec PoS to avoid some needless transport hops and for greater efficiency.

The goal is to make PoS Refining/Compression arrays publicly available in manner similar to POCOs. This is useful to reduce the number of trips and people (i.e. time) needed to get compressed ore and minerals to market.

0. PoS's with reprocessing/compression arrays appear as a beacon on the overview with refining/compression rate and fee listed.
1. Miner mines ore.
2. Miner transports ore to someone's PoS
3. Miner refines/reprocesses ore at someone's PoS using a POCO style interface. (Miner pays a fee/tax as set by PoS owner.)
4. Miner transports compressed ore or minerals to market
5. Miner sells compressed ore/minerals

versus:
1. Miner mines ore
2. Miner transports ore to market.
3. Miner sells ore.
4. Refiner/Compressor buys ore
5. Refiner/Compressor transports ore to PoS.
6. Refiner/Compressor refines/compresses ore.
6. Refiner/Compressor transports compressed ore/minerals back to market
7. Refiner/Compressor sells ore/minerals

Basically, a POCO style Refining/Compressing Array would get compressed ore/minerals to market faster and with greater efficiency (no waiting on a middleman, less transport hops, competition between PoS's, less market taxes, etc.)


The downside would be 0.01 undercutting between PoS.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Harah Noud
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1420 - 2014-03-23 20:58:42 UTC
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcolm Lionel wrote:
Also its not good that the PoS module assumes max skill. Why train 200 days of skills if I can just use a PoS for almost max skill refine? And what about the rorqual? Where is its role now?

Also isn't the now required 200 days training time a bit much? Maybe shrink it down alot?

Right now you have to put about 5.5 million SP in resorce processing, after this it will be almost 20 million. BIG JUMP. More so than tech 2 guns even.


Thats 200 days to refine everything. If you just want trit it will be much much faster.




If your a serious miner your going to want to be able to refine everything at perfect levels to get the most out of your activity. Hence 20 million skill points now required instead of previous 5.5 million for perfect.


Perfect is not good enough,
let me repeat the numbers
perfect skills, all to V, plus a 4% implants
in a high sec station (or even low sec)
gets u only 72.4%

now a char with no skills, no implants can use a POS to get 75% in high sec and 78% in low sec....