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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

First post First post First post
Author
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2014-03-20 19:26:15 UTC
Adellle Nadair wrote:
The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Those who spend the massive amount of time, isk, and effort to acquire and hold nullsec sov, then dump dozens of billions of isk into a refining station. then haul ore out or mine it locally most certainly deserve a definate advantage over highsec.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#282 - 2014-03-20 19:26:27 UTC
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Of course it is wrong.
But the cartels are ramming through this change because they expect it to be a net gain to their serf population in null sec, while at the same time hammering high sec.

The cartels know that this will shrink the overall subscription base as many new high sec players will quit once the full impact of this attack is felt. But their personal income will increase as some will migrate to null sec that would not have done so otherwise, and that is all that matters to them.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#283 - 2014-03-20 19:28:14 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Of course it is wrong.
But the cartels are ramming through this change because they expect it to be a net gain to their serf population in null sec, while at the same time hammering high sec.

The cartels know that this will shrink the overall subscription base as many new high sec players will quit once the full impact of this attack is felt. But their personal income will increase as some will migrate to null sec that would not have done so otherwise, and that is all that matters to them.



Whoop Whoop! Grab da Tinfoil!
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#284 - 2014-03-20 19:28:35 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:

After years of reading these blogs and seeing the results I can only conclude one of two things. Either the CCP Devs are totally and completely incompetent or they are lying. Spoken more directly option 2 would be that they are working behind the scenes to reduce the amount of players that can pay for game time with in game money. Since they have allowed PLEXs to be moved and thus lost to the RNG gods and with the aurum scandal a few years back and now ship painting for aurum it seems like option 2 is more likely.

You seem to be under the delusion that a player subscribing his account with PLEX purchased from the market are somehow denying CCP income, when the opposite is actually true -- PLEX are more expensive to purchase than a corresponding month of subscription time paid directly.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#285 - 2014-03-20 19:28:49 UTC
CCP - congrats, you continue to find ways to screw me over.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#286 - 2014-03-20 19:29:24 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
I remember how the huge loot nerf they did a couple years ago was supposed to "fix" mining and still you need to run 3 accounts to make the same isk / hour mining as you do ratting.


It wasn't supposed to "fix" mining, it was supposed to make mining more viable.

Would you like to argue that it didn't?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

mkint
#287 - 2014-03-20 19:29:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


Numbers come into play, yes. But you're forgetting one important thing... Nullsec would be great if it weren't for the people who live there. The people who like industry type stuff, don't like the kind of people who like to live in nullsec. The people who like to live in nullsec are joiners, followers, anti-entrepreneurs. People who want to do industry have a vision of themselves as forging their own path, creating something, finding the secret levers to make themselves powerful. What the budding industrialists don't realize right away is that even if all the mechanics were in place for them to be able to do unimpeded industry in nullsec is that it's trivially easy for any of the nullbear follower joiners to just roll and indy alt to fill their own needs.

There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Lipbite
Express Hauler
#288 - 2014-03-20 19:30:09 UTC
This is that happens when devs don't develop real content.
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2014-03-20 19:30:41 UTC
Just had a thought - since scrap metal reprocessing will have a heavily reduced output, what are the chances of reintroducing drone alloys into the game, perhaps in smaller total amounts?
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
#290 - 2014-03-20 19:31:29 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Those who spend the massive amount of time, isk, and effort to acquire and hold nullsec sov, then dump dozens of billions of isk into a refining station. then haul ore out or mine it locally most certainly deserve a definate advantage over highsec.


Ehh, my corps' set of capital bpo's, jump freighters, mineral buying pipeline don't count?
A silly 15B station isn't that expensive if you're talking capital construction on any relevant scale....
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#291 - 2014-03-20 19:31:50 UTC
mkint wrote:
Numbers come into play, yes. But you're forgetting one important thing... Nullsec would be great if it weren't for the people who live there. The people who like industry type stuff, don't like the kind of people who like to live in nullsec. The people who like to live in nullsec are joiners, followers, anti-entrepreneurs. People who want to do industry have a vision of themselves as forging their own path, creating something, finding the secret levers to make themselves powerful. What the budding industrialists don't realize right away is that even if all the mechanics were in place for them to be able to do unimpeded industry in nullsec is that it's trivially easy for any of the nullbear follower joiners to just roll and indy alt to fill their own needs.

wrong

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#292 - 2014-03-20 19:32:34 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
CCP - congrats, you continue to find ways to screw me over.


Yeah there's not many left now, but rest assured - they'll get you every last way we can think of!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#293 - 2014-03-20 19:32:41 UTC
Sir HyperChrist wrote:

Ehh, my corps' set of capital bpo's, jump freighters, mineral buying pipeline don't count?
A silly 15B station isn't that expensive if you're talking capital construction on any relevant scale....

a tier3 station is about 60b and can be taken away from you forever, unlike your capital construction bpos which are never at risk

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2014-03-20 19:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Lipbite wrote:
This is that happens when devs don't develop real content.


Dev's let us make the content, ~sandbox~ remember? You people were all happy about ~sandbox~ when it was nullsec getting nerfed, why not now :allears:.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#295 - 2014-03-20 19:33:04 UTC
The Cue wrote:
Marcia en Welle wrote:
Also I'd like to point out this is a massive buff to WH residents, perhaps unnecessarily seeing as CCP state that they do not want people living in WHs. Now WH residents will be able to cut themselves off almost completely.


CCP has never said that they do not want people living in WHs. You are very significantly misunderstanding them. They stated that it was a totally unintentional situation, but just because it's unintended does not mean it's unwanted.

This change is also a partial nerf to WH residents, as many of us import ice instead of the four products. Less M3, which is a precious commodity in WHs.

You obviously either don't understand WHs very well, or are just trying to under play how significant of a buff this is to WH residents.

You can now instantly refine and build components at rates higher than a fully skilled station refiner, and also compress at the now new highest standard of compression using the POS module.

This is a very significant buff to WH residents.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#296 - 2014-03-20 19:33:14 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Those who spend the massive amount of time, isk, and effort to acquire and hold nullsec sov, then dump dozens of billions of isk into a refining station. then haul ore out or mine it locally most certainly deserve a definate advantage over highsec.


Then why not get rid of high sec completely since they deserve nothing in your opinion. Yeah thats going to bring in alot of new players but who cares we dont need them anyways right. This is CCP telling its player base how to play the sandbox game.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2014-03-20 19:33:14 UTC
mkint wrote:
Numbers come into play, yes. But you're forgetting one important thing... Nullsec would be great if it weren't for the people who live there. The people who like industry type stuff, don't like the kind of people who like to live in nullsec. The people who like to live in nullsec are joiners, followers, anti-entrepreneurs. People who want to do industry have a vision of themselves as forging their own path, creating something, finding the secret levers to make themselves powerful. What the budding industrialists don't realize right away is that even if all the mechanics were in place for them to be able to do unimpeded industry in nullsec is that it's trivially easy for any of the nullbear follower joiners to just roll and indy alt to fill their own needs.

There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it.

Entrepreneurs who don't work well with other people swiftly go out of business.

People who live in nullsec either went there because they want to be a part of the PvE, a part of the PvP, or both. There are plenty of people who do things solo in nullsec. You are just imagining that all of nullsec is out to get you in order to justify huddlng in highsec.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#298 - 2014-03-20 19:33:16 UTC
Mukuro Gravedigger wrote:
Just had a thought - since scrap metal reprocessing will have a heavily reduced output, what are the chances of reintroducing drone alloys into the game, perhaps in smaller total amounts?

This would be a phenomenally poor idea, given that the express purpose of kicking scrap metal reprocessing in the family jewels was to reduce the amount of minerals available.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight
#299 - 2014-03-20 19:34:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Hi-sec will still be a massively better place to do production than 0.0 after this change.

You can complain after CCP
- Remove CONCORD
- Remove all the NPC stations
- Remove the faction police
- Allow cynos, bombs and bubbles to work in hi-sec
- Move datacore production out of hi-sec
- Move BPO sell orders out of hi-sec

While hi-sec still has those monumental advantages, this is basically complaining that the poor kid is getting a cherry while you're eating your way through a giant triple-scoop sundae.


While I disagree with your motivations, I do agree that this is a needed and good change.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#300 - 2014-03-20 19:34:40 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Those who spend the massive amount of time, isk, and effort to acquire and hold nullsec sov, then dump dozens of billions of isk into a refining station. then haul ore out or mine it locally most certainly deserve a definate advantage over highsec.


Then why not get rid of high sec completely since they deserve nothing in your opinion. Yeah thats going to bring in alot of new players but who cares we dont need them anyways right. This is CCP telling its player base how to play the sandbox game.

Where the hell did I say they deserve nothing?

But effort results in reward. The effort expended to take, control, maintain, and upgrade space should result in space that is better than that for which no effort is required. End of story.