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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

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Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#481 - 2014-02-16 03:53:50 UTC
La Nariz wrote:


I don't think anyone likes RNG and the structure idea gives people an objective, the attacker wants to keep it alive and the defender wants to blow it up. One of the problems that was hit in other threads is that the sov system should have multiple objectives to break up the blob warfare. I was thinking this structure could be part of that multiple objectives idea.

Space weather would be kind of cool though.


It's a great idea but the devil is in the details.

Do you need to make all, some or one of the multiple objectives?
This question can be posed for both attacker and defender.
Between attacker and defender, are the answers to that question different?

Most of the scenarios I imagine can be easily taken advantage of to the point of defeating whatever you hoped to accomplish for an underdog.
Most of the scenarios I imagine involve the blob moving around, which is a bonus. But it doesn't change anything.

Blob is only influenced through in-game limitation on size. Whether through static mechanic or server load.
This has been repeatedly proven time and time again in the last decade. There is no reason NOT to pile it on. And there is certainly nothing to stop it.

We can choose, we either limit ourselves by design, or by one-sided tidi turkey shoots.

Same as it ever was.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#482 - 2014-02-16 03:58:20 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


I like the using planets or suns more i think. Just examples off the top of my head, not in love with any of it. Maybe add a spool down time after jump, invulnerable but still sitting... (none for black ops)

Anything to make space big again tbh.



Feels pretty damn big when you have to set up the cyno chain.

I was about halfway through when the alliance put a chain up to go 5 jumps.........I was at it for about two hours, and what was going to have to happen was that I was going to have to light three cynos, and then burn the last leg with one......43 jumps and half of that a pretty gnarly area.

Go go alliance cyno chains, space is plenty big when you have to do the legwork.


I've done plenty. And I've done plenty worse.

But at the end of the day, I'm more interested in dynamic and conflict-driven mechanics.

We could make things incredibly easy for lots of people and no one would ever (have to) risk any of their assets. For no one else would have opportunity to **** on their parade. Sad

No one wants to make the game harder in a 'no fun' fashion. But harder in terms of complexity and strategic opportunity? Absolutely we should want that.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#483 - 2014-02-16 04:06:50 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:

It's a great idea but the devil is in the details.

Do you need to make all, some or one of the multiple objectives?
This question can be posed for both attacker and defender.
Between attacker and defender, are the answers to that question different?

Most of the scenarios I imagine can be easily taken advantage of to the point of defeating whatever you hoped to accomplish for an underdog.
Most of the scenarios I imagine involve the blob moving around, which is a bonus. But it doesn't change anything.

Blob is only influenced through in-game limitation on size. Whether through static mechanic or server load.
This has been repeatedly proven time and time again in the last decade. There is no reason NOT to pile it on. And there is certainly nothing to stop it.

We can choose, we either limit ourselves by design, or by one-sided tidi turkey shoots.

Same as it ever was.


An artificial limitation in size is pretty much the antithesis of EVE, the single shard game. One of the selling features is that there isn't instanced things putting a limitation on people.

I think you could add/change mechanics to punish dogpiling or encourage division.

Those are good questions for redesiging sov, I'd think you have to position those so there are multiple paths and strategies to victory. I have to think about it more before I say how that'd happen.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#484 - 2014-02-16 04:10:44 UTC
Onictus wrote:


Holy crap you people MUST be engineers. Complicating the hell out of everything for no good reason.

If you must do a regional jump structure just increase the ranges between the regions. If you have ever moved between Catch and Querious you have seen this. That issue is that you need a carrier to jump between 4-0 in Catch and 49- in Querious, you have use a MIDPOINT to go one gate jump, and that one gate jump is outside of Titan/Black Ops bridge range at 12 LY to the nearest system.

Seen here http://www.eve-icsc.com/jumptools/jumpplanner.php?ship=Thanatos&jdc=4&jfc=4&jf=0&fromsystem=4-07MU&waypoints0=49-U6U&waypoints1=


If you must just apply those sorts of distances a Carrier is the longest jumper in the game and at JDC V it can go at best 14 some odd light years. Dreads can jump 11 max, same with JFs, Roques and whatnot
9 for a super
a little under 8 for a Titan or Blops (they bridge 10 LY)


:edit

That is also the reason that the carrier is about THE most useful hull class for us hardcore dirty blobbers, I use that **** on everything.


Ironically... I am an ME (though at work I do more EE)

But yes the argument stands, simple spreading out systems can easily knock down a bit of the jumping huge fleets problem, with it still being a viable tactic.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#485 - 2014-02-16 04:41:54 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:

It's a great idea but the devil is in the details.

Do you need to make all, some or one of the multiple objectives?
This question can be posed for both attacker and defender.
Between attacker and defender, are the answers to that question different?

Most of the scenarios I imagine can be easily taken advantage of to the point of defeating whatever you hoped to accomplish for an underdog.
Most of the scenarios I imagine involve the blob moving around, which is a bonus. But it doesn't change anything.

Blob is only influenced through in-game limitation on size. Whether through static mechanic or server load.
This has been repeatedly proven time and time again in the last decade. There is no reason NOT to pile it on. And there is certainly nothing to stop it.

We can choose, we either limit ourselves by design, or by one-sided tidi turkey shoots.

Same as it ever was.


An artificial limitation in size is pretty much the antithesis of EVE, the single shard game. One of the selling features is that there isn't instanced things putting a limitation on people.

I think you could add/change mechanics to punish dogpiling or encourage division.

Those are good questions for redesiging sov, I'd think you have to position those so there are multiple paths and strategies to victory. I have to think about it more before I say how that'd happen.



There are static limitations everywhere you turn. Organizationally through squad/wing/fleet structures and in corp/alliance structure.

The real question then becomes not whether or not there are size limitations (which there so obviously are), but what the intention of said variables are, if any.

I think the idea that there is a purist form of eve is accurate. But I'd love to see you explain in anything but a love letter how a one shard universe somehow dictates limitations on mechanics.

What does that have to do with say... fleet size, or blue list size? Especially considering many mechanics are currently being dictated by what were essentially arbitrary variables.

You may not be able to imagine a better way than 0.0 that amounts to king of the hill. That doesn't change that fact that for many of us, the status quo is obviously stale.

And yes, the latest "epic" accomplishment, a giant ass blob of titans exploding.. is stale to me.

Oooo, I can't wait for next time, there will be 200 more!!

I could see size staying unlimited, if there was ever a reason to not keep everyone under one umbrella... but that isn't currently the case.

I'm asking you, do you think that's good?

Does this game only stand as a monument to the largest gang someone recently was able to field in a fight before a server failed?
Can't we do better?

Because I can imagine a great deal more interesting.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#486 - 2014-02-16 05:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Linkxsc162534 wrote:


Ironically... I am an ME (though at work I do more EE)

But yes the argument stands, simple spreading out systems can easily knock down a bit of the jumping huge fleets problem, with it still being a viable tactic.


I'm a computer type now, but I was a tech for a lot of years first, so I spend a fair amount of time at work reining in big heads that like to....erm.....over sophisticate damn near everything.

In short it would make capital movement a LOT harder if you have ever tried to get to Cobalt Edge from North or Querious from the east by jump drive its a significant venture. There are a couple way to go about it. Either spread the systems which makes it murder to do logistics, spread the regions, or reduce the jump range on combat classed capitals.

.....however, I'm loath to say that dreads need any form of a nerf, and carriers are a quality of life thing.
.....and logistics guys, FFS I'm not sure how they don't burn out to start with, many do, that is why they are so valuable.

Even then going on this premise is mostly crap anyway. Where does the little guy fit into null sec? He doesn't its not a little guy kind of place, and no amount of reducing force projection is going to change that, all that would be accomplished is that you would slow the game down. Wars would still happen just as they do now, the blob will still be the blob, it just makes pretty much EVERY factor of living in nullsec MORE ******* aggravating.

I've been out of game for about 6 weeks with a move, so today I got logged in got back to my deployed assets and got them to the staging system. Took about 25 minute of travel time, swapping a couple fleets to get on chains going the right direction and such.

I moved a grand total of 5 ships, Now considering that one was a battleship that leg between the last two jumps would have taken 10 minutes ....to go ten jumps.....and then the return lap in nub ships? That is an hour out of my day to move 5 ships. No one's Alliance is going to say "You know what, that is going to be hard to move," it doesn't happen. The alliances say, get your gear here, caps join this fleet, sub-caps find a convoy.

Nothing changes, its just MORE aggravating.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2014-02-16 05:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Onictus wrote:
Linkxsc162534 wrote:


Ironically... I am an ME (though at work I do more EE)

But yes the argument stands, simple spreading out systems can easily knock down a bit of the jumping huge fleets problem, with it still being a viable tactic.


I'm a computer type now, but I was a tech for a lot of years first, so I spend a fair amount of time at work reining in big heads that like to....erm.....over sophisticate damn near everything.

In short it would make capital movement a LOT harder if you have ever tried to get to Cobalt Edge from North or Querious from the east by jump drive its a significant venture. There are a couple way to go about it. Either spread the systems which makes it murder to do logistics, spread the regions, or reduce the jump range on combat classed capitals.

.....however, I'm loath to say that dreads need any form of a nerf, and carriers are a quality of life thing.
.....and logistics guys, FFS I'm not sure how they don't burn out to start with, many do, that is why they are so valuable.

Even then going on this premise is mostly crap anyway. Where does the little guy fit into null sec? He doesn't its not a little guy kind of place, and no amount of reducing force projection is going to change that, all that would be accomplished is that you would slow the game down. Wars would still happen just as they do now, the blob will still be the blob, it just makes pretty much EVERY factor of living in nullsec MORE ******* aggravating.

I've been out of game for about 6 weeks with a move, so today I got logged in got back to my deployed assets and got them to the staging system. Took about 25 minute of travel time, swapping a couple fleets to get on chains going the right direction and such.

I moved a grand total of 5 ships, Now considering that one was a battleship that leg between the last two jumps would have taken 10 minutes ....to go ten jumps.....and then the return lap in nub ships? That is an hour out of my day to move 5 ships. No one's Alliance is going to say "You know what, that is going to be hard to move," it doesn't happen. The alliances say, get your gear here, caps join this fleet, sub-caps find a convoy.

Nothing changes, its just MORE aggravating.

It should be aggravating to an extent. Everyone forgets quickly the difficulty of the past and is always pushing for faster better easier. It used to take me 2 days to download 10 mb from a bulletin board, now if it takes me 5 minutes I'm cursing and swearing at how slow my connection is today.

We used to live out in Null with 100 jumps of pure terror (if you were carrying mega and zyd) to high sec in T1 industrials and we survived. To move 5 ships across EVE would have taken something like 1000 jumps. There were no regional jumps every few systems. Just HED-GP choke and another route through Fountain (I lived in Stain).

The fact is that its never been easier to do logistics or live in null but the brains plasticity quickly gets used to the new ease and wants its easier. Its gotten to the point its so easy in your 37k man coalition that there really is no way for anyone to defeat that except to create another 37k coalition.

This - shows two modes of connecting EVE and its regions. The first with low connections creates ponds. The second creates a lake.

With ponds if a guy fills his up and wants to take over another pond he has to do some serious travelling. With ponds there is no major incentive to NAP everyone in other ponds since other ponds dont pose an immediate threat (they're not next door).

With lakes (which is what we currently have) everyone is connected to his neighbor. In a lake its mandatory to nap everyone around you or kill them. Everyone around you poses an immediate threat. The addition of many many regional jumps turned EVE from a pond game to a lake game.

So while your moving 5 ships took 1 whole hour it should probably have taken longer for the health and benifit of the game as a whole.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#488 - 2014-02-16 09:27:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Linkxsc162534 wrote:


Ironically... I am an ME (though at work I do more EE)

But yes the argument stands, simple spreading out systems can easily knock down a bit of the jumping huge fleets problem, with it still being a viable tactic.


I'm a computer type now, but I was a tech for a lot of years first, so I spend a fair amount of time at work reining in big heads that like to....erm.....over sophisticate damn near everything.

In short it would make capital movement a LOT harder if you have ever tried to get to Cobalt Edge from North or Querious from the east by jump drive its a significant venture. There are a couple way to go about it. Either spread the systems which makes it murder to do logistics, spread the regions, or reduce the jump range on combat classed capitals.

.....however, I'm loath to say that dreads need any form of a nerf, and carriers are a quality of life thing.
.....and logistics guys, FFS I'm not sure how they don't burn out to start with, many do, that is why they are so valuable.

Even then going on this premise is mostly crap anyway. Where does the little guy fit into null sec? He doesn't its not a little guy kind of place, and no amount of reducing force projection is going to change that, all that would be accomplished is that you would slow the game down. Wars would still happen just as they do now, the blob will still be the blob, it just makes pretty much EVERY factor of living in nullsec MORE ******* aggravating.

I've been out of game for about 6 weeks with a move, so today I got logged in got back to my deployed assets and got them to the staging system. Took about 25 minute of travel time, swapping a couple fleets to get on chains going the right direction and such.

I moved a grand total of 5 ships, Now considering that one was a battleship that leg between the last two jumps would have taken 10 minutes ....to go ten jumps.....and then the return lap in nub ships? That is an hour out of my day to move 5 ships. No one's Alliance is going to say "You know what, that is going to be hard to move," it doesn't happen. The alliances say, get your gear here, caps join this fleet, sub-caps find a convoy.

Nothing changes, its just MORE aggravating.

It should be aggravating to an extent. Everyone forgets quickly the difficulty of the past and is always pushing for faster better easier. It used to take me 2 days to download 10 mb from a bulletin board, now if it takes me 5 minutes I'm cursing and swearing at how slow my connection is today.

We used to live out in Null with 100 jumps of pure terror (if you were carrying mega and zyd) to high sec in T1 industrials and we survived. To move 5 ships across EVE would have taken something like 1000 jumps. There were no regional jumps every few systems. Just HED-GP choke and another route through Fountain (I lived in Stain).

The fact is that its never been easier to do logistics or live in null but the brains plasticity quickly gets used to the new ease and wants its easier. Its gotten to the point its so easy in your 37k man coalition that there really is no way for anyone to defeat that except to create another 37k coalition.

This - shows two modes of connecting EVE and its regions. The first with low connections creates ponds. The second creates a lake.

With ponds if a guy fills his up and wants to take over another pond he has to do some serious travelling. With ponds there is no major incentive to NAP everyone in other ponds since other ponds dont pose an immediate threat (they're not next door).

With lakes (which is what we currently have) everyone is connected to his neighbor. In a lake its mandatory to nap everyone around you or kill them. Everyone around you poses an immediate threat. The addition of many many regional jumps turned EVE from a pond game to a lake game.

So while your moving 5 ships took 1 whole hour it should probably have taken longer for the health and benifit of the game as a whole.


Not gonna lie. I like the pond concept. Would like to know more and hear other thoughts on it.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#489 - 2014-02-16 10:00:16 UTC
Obviously the one from the 6th of this month. Coalition Map

And the new one yesterday on the 15th. Coalition Map

I will do another next weekend.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#490 - 2014-02-16 13:30:51 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:

There are static limitations everywhere you turn. Organizationally through squad/wing/fleet structures and in corp/alliance structure.

The real question then becomes not whether or not there are size limitations (which there so obviously are), but what the intention of said variables are, if any.

I think the idea that there is a purist form of eve is accurate. But I'd love to see you explain in anything but a love letter how a one shard universe somehow dictates limitations on mechanics.

What does that have to do with say... fleet size, or blue list size? Especially considering many mechanics are currently being dictated by what were essentially arbitrary variables.

You may not be able to imagine a better way than 0.0 that amounts to king of the hill. That doesn't change that fact that for many of us, the status quo is obviously stale.

And yes, the latest "epic" accomplishment, a giant ass blob of titans exploding.. is stale to me.

Oooo, I can't wait for next time, there will be 200 more!!

I could see size staying unlimited, if there was ever a reason to not keep everyone under one umbrella... but that isn't currently the case.

I'm asking you, do you think that's good?

Does this game only stand as a monument to the largest gang someone recently was able to field in a fight before a server failed?
Can't we do better?

Because I can imagine a great deal more interesting.


Directly from the EVE sign up page:


What is your definition of epic combat? Is it fleets of hundreds clashing in battle? Is it war for control of entire constellations?
Does high risk PvP get your blood racing? 1000+ ship fleet battles - hundreds of ship types - thousands of ship module options
In a single-shard universe, all players are part of one community. Your actions, be they those of a savior or scourge, impact not just a small group or independent shard, but the universe itself.


Part of EVE's selling point is massive battles and massive scale, not instanced pvp. Artificially limiting the thing that keeps the game going, social interaction, is a terrible idea. I think we could do better by adding mechanics to prevent dogpilng and encourage division.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#491 - 2014-02-16 13:51:04 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Linkxsc162534 wrote:


Ironically... I am an ME (though at work I do more EE)

But yes the argument stands, simple spreading out systems can easily knock down a bit of the jumping huge fleets problem, with it still being a viable tactic.


I'm a computer type now, but I was a tech for a lot of years first, so I spend a fair amount of time at work reining in big heads that like to....erm.....over sophisticate damn near everything.

In short it would make capital movement a LOT harder if you have ever tried to get to Cobalt Edge from North or Querious from the east by jump drive its a significant venture. There are a couple way to go about it. Either spread the systems which makes it murder to do logistics, spread the regions, or reduce the jump range on combat classed capitals.

.....however, I'm loath to say that dreads need any form of a nerf, and carriers are a quality of life thing.
.....and logistics guys, FFS I'm not sure how they don't burn out to start with, many do, that is why they are so valuable.

Even then going on this premise is mostly crap anyway. Where does the little guy fit into null sec? He doesn't its not a little guy kind of place, and no amount of reducing force projection is going to change that, all that would be accomplished is that you would slow the game down. Wars would still happen just as they do now, the blob will still be the blob, it just makes pretty much EVERY factor of living in nullsec MORE ******* aggravating.

I've been out of game for about 6 weeks with a move, so today I got logged in got back to my deployed assets and got them to the staging system. Took about 25 minute of travel time, swapping a couple fleets to get on chains going the right direction and such.

I moved a grand total of 5 ships, Now considering that one was a battleship that leg between the last two jumps would have taken 10 minutes ....to go ten jumps.....and then the return lap in nub ships? That is an hour out of my day to move 5 ships. No one's Alliance is going to say "You know what, that is going to be hard to move," it doesn't happen. The alliances say, get your gear here, caps join this fleet, sub-caps find a convoy.

Nothing changes, its just MORE aggravating.

It should be aggravating to an extent. Everyone forgets quickly the difficulty of the past and is always pushing for faster better easier. It used to take me 2 days to download 10 mb from a bulletin board, now if it takes me 5 minutes I'm cursing and swearing at how slow my connection is today.

We used to live out in Null with 100 jumps of pure terror (if you were carrying mega and zyd) to high sec in T1 industrials and we survived. To move 5 ships across EVE would have taken something like 1000 jumps. There were no regional jumps every few systems. Just HED-GP choke and another route through Fountain (I lived in Stain).

The fact is that its never been easier to do logistics or live in null but the brains plasticity quickly gets used to the new ease and wants its easier. Its gotten to the point its so easy in your 37k man coalition that there really is no way for anyone to defeat that except to create another 37k coalition.

This - shows two modes of connecting EVE and its regions. The first with low connections creates ponds. The second creates a lake.

With ponds if a guy fills his up and wants to take over another pond he has to do some serious travelling. With ponds there is no major incentive to NAP everyone in other ponds since other ponds dont pose an immediate threat (they're not next door).

With lakes (which is what we currently have) everyone is connected to his neighbor. In a lake its mandatory to nap everyone around you or kill them. Everyone around you poses an immediate threat. The addition of many many regional jumps turned EVE from a pond game to a lake game.

So while your moving 5 ships took 1 whole hour it should probably have taken longer for the health and benifit of the game as a whole.


Not gonna lie. I like the pond concept. Would like to know more and hear other thoughts on it.

Well its too late really for change now. Look at Marlona's map. If things continue as they are, you'll see a complete blue donut in a matter of months. I feel sorry for Providence lol. Perhaps they'll be spared and kept as a sort of west bank palestine (as long as they do what they're told).

Whats peculiar is CCP have just sat there doing nothing and the only peep we've heard was some lame "we have no plans for sov in the near future"...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#492 - 2014-02-16 13:56:24 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Not gonna lie. I like the pond concept. Would like to know more and hear other thoughts on it.

thoughts: if an idea involves 'let's make things difficult and tedious to try and solve a problem' it's a bad idea
if an idea involves 'let's deliberately attempt to reduce player interaction' it's a bad idea
if an idea involves 'let's reduce incentive for emergent gameplay' it's a bad idea
if your objective is 'let's try to nerf coalitions' a bad idea will result

if the source is infinity ziona it's a bad idea
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#493 - 2014-02-16 13:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Not gonna lie. I like the pond concept. Would like to know more and hear other thoughts on it.

thoughts: if an idea involves 'let's make things difficult and tedious to try and solve a problem' it's a bad idea
if an idea involves 'let's deliberately attempt to reduce player interaction' it's a bad idea
if an idea involves 'let's reduce incentive for emergent gameplay' it's a bad idea
if your objective is 'let's try to nerf coalitions' a bad idea will result

if the source is infinity ziona it's a bad idea

Biased much lol. If an idea results in this... its a bad idea. Also I'd like to point out something you're missing, ponds are and were not my idea, it was how EVE was designed.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#494 - 2014-02-16 14:01:26 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If an idea results in this...


...it's because the majority of the players have permitted it.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#495 - 2014-02-16 14:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
My post from earlier in the thread is relevant.

La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Andski wrote:
in fact I advise anyone reading this thread to just ignore whatever Infinity Ziona says because he literally posts complete lies in every thread about 0.0 (such as "I make 100 billion isk per hour in -0.1 systems it's not broken!!!!") and in fact doesn't really have the first clue about the subjects he talks about


This literally can't be emphasized enough.


I just want to see Goons burn


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4159522#post4159522

The dude has no clue about anything he talks about but, really hates us so even if we want a change that is good for the game and to our detriment, supercap/tech/FW/sovfix/drone assist, he'd be against it. Ignoring him is an anodyne for your own mental health.

E: See sig for proof highsec needs a nerf.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#496 - 2014-02-16 14:07:21 UTC
idea: add reasons to fight people beyond "we hate those guys" and "gotta fight someone vOv"
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2014-02-16 14:10:26 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
idea: add reasons to fight people beyond "we hate those guys" and "gotta fight someone vOv"


You mean like an economic incentive and a revamp of sov? Perhaps we need to do the incentive now and nerf highsec since the sov revamp keeps being pushed back.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#498 - 2014-02-16 14:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
admiral root wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If an idea results in this...


...it's because the majority of the players have permitted it.

No its because whether theres a CFC in system or not as soon as you attack something CFC gets an email from the server. Its because when you attack something no matter how much stealth, teamwork and cunning you use its defeated by that email. Its because no matter how many ships you bring that thing is not killable when you choose to attack it. Its because CCP have allowed the formation of coalitions that if they were countries would put them at number 30 in terms of population from smallest to biggest (they're bigger than Monaco, Gibraltar, Virgin Islands etc).

And turning up at the time chosen by those coalitions is suicide.

Edit:

And no its a falsehood to say I dislike Goons over anyone else in game. Goons are not CFC btw. The "I just want to watch Goons burn" was in reference to the last fleet fight not the entire coalition. Stop being paranoid.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#499 - 2014-02-16 14:14:42 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If an idea results in this...


...it's because the majority of the players have permitted it.

No its because whether theres a CFC in system or not as soon as you attack something CFC gets an email from the server. Its because when you attack something no matter how much stealth, teamwork and cunning you use its defeated by that email. Its because no matter how many ships you bring that thing is not killable when you choose to attack it. Its because CCP have allowed the formation of coalitions that if they were countries would put them at number 30 in terms of population from smallest to biggest (they're bigger than Monaco, Gibraltar, Virgin Islands etc).

And turning up at the time chosen by those coalitions is suicide.


Boo hoo. Raise up an army and crush them if they bother you. The CFC is vastly outnumbered by the rest of the player population and there's plenty more whinebears where you come from.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#500 - 2014-02-16 14:16:40 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
idea: add reasons to fight people beyond "we hate those guys" and "gotta fight someone vOv"


You mean like an economic incentive and a revamp of sov? Perhaps we need to do the incentive now and nerf highsec since the sov revamp keeps being pushed back.

i was just thinking that. weird!