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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

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Kharamete
Royal Assent
#201 - 2014-02-14 00:02:58 UTC
It was the wagon train that conquered The West. Wyatt Earp and his kind died brutally, quickly, and in their thirties or forties. The farmers and their families lived to ripe old age.

Did you know that CCP intented wormhole-space to be more of a small-corp, solo space? When wormholes were introduced there were many arguments against allowing for POSes in wormhole-space. CCP dismissed banning them from the space because they could not conceive that anyone would want to live there.

The wagon trains started for wh-space as soon as the first wormholes appeared in New Eden.

What has all this have to do with the blue doughnut? Well, if my analogy is correct, then nullsec is just an extension of a known and historical phenomena in all human endeavour. Individuals banding together to overcome their own mediocrity, forming wagon trains to guard against the Wyatt Earps and the Sundance Kid. In numbers, mediocrity trumps individual skill and bravado any time.

Learn that lesson, and you will see why the blue doughnut was all but assured. The "little guy" never stood a chance anyway, and never has. Back in 2007 when I started playing this game, it was as impossible for "the little guy" to do anything in null as it is now. Jump in your time-machine, go to one of the unclaimed systems of Tenal or Branch back then, drop a pos to claim it and see how it goes. Not well, I can assure you.

The "little guy's" chance is to build a wagon train; form alliances, make friends, and then kick someone out when he's powerful enough to do so.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#202 - 2014-02-14 00:17:32 UTC
Can we nerf Local in HighSec?

Not for any logistical or "intel shouldn't be free" reasons but because in some systems it's just filled with retards and morons.

I keep an eye on Local but holy **** - it's filled with little ******* kids that wave their dicks at each other and it's just annoying.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#203 - 2014-02-14 01:10:34 UTC
highsec wardec local trashtalk has a long and storied history beginning with the 2003-era cave-capsuleer daubing crude ascii phalluses on the side of their spaceships using pigment sourced from clay
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#204 - 2014-02-14 02:05:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Kharamete wrote:


Learn that lesson, and you will see why the blue doughnut was all but assured.


It's assured because you can move your most powerful ships from one end of the galaxy to the other in less then an hour.

At the very least CCP could split nullsec regions up where travel from one region to another is a week long affair (for the capital class ships) and watch 20 nullsec powerblocks spring up quicker then you can imagine.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#205 - 2014-02-14 03:03:15 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
this thread is not about missions.


They are part of the problem. New corps and alliances arn't going to try to take systems off us if they are not worth it.

Even if you thought they were the sov system isn't going to allow them to do so. Between experience, numbers, force projection, and material prep, it's just not going to happen. Also, again, the issue isn't mission, it's anoms being the worst PvE in game.


Death from a thousand pin pricks is a very real threat. Oneof our biggest defences is that most of our holdings are worthless systems so few people bother to try.

Such tactics may be applicable for an experienced group with deep pockets, a lot of patience and superior skill. The issue is that it necessitates that large powerblocks can be outlasted and outmaneuvered by smaller groups over a long period. We all have the jokes about how bad goons are or the CFC is, but I don't have faith that in this defenders initiative of a sov system that you lack the capacity to wreak havoc on whatever scale of warfare you desire.

Edit: This of course doesn't discount diplomacy, though diplomatic relations tend to strengthen fighting capacities over time, coalitions being a prime example, thus making it harder still for forceful entry into null.

You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#206 - 2014-02-14 03:16:27 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.


I destroyed an ESS last week.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2014-02-14 03:56:22 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.


I destroyed an ESS last week.

Since when are ESS sov structures?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2014-02-14 04:15:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.


I destroyed an ESS last week.

Since when are ESS sov structures?


That depends on the definition of sov and when.

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2014-02-14 04:24:09 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.


I destroyed an ESS last week.

Since when are ESS sov structures?


That depends on the definition of sov and when.

No it doesn't. The ESS is not a sov structure like a POCO, TCU, POS, or Outpost. Sov Structures all have one thing in common. They send a message to the owner when they're attacked.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2014-02-14 04:34:18 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.


I destroyed an ESS last week.

Since when are ESS sov structures?


That depends on the definition of sov and when.

No it doesn't. The ESS is not a sov structure like a POCO, TCU, POS, or Outpost. Sov Structures all have one thing in common. They send a message to the owner when they're attacked.



POCOs aren't sov structures either.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2014-02-14 04:39:12 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.

We've been running almost nonstop fleets for the last week killing sov structures in the east.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2014-02-14 04:59:42 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.

We've been running almost nonstop fleets for the last week killing sov structures in the east.

The remark was in reference to the small guy and the "thousand little pricks". You have a 37000 man alliance. 37 thousand pricks is a completely different story.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#213 - 2014-02-14 05:37:09 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.


I destroyed an ESS last week.

Since when are ESS sov structures?


Since when are POCO's sov structures? I have also underlined the very important thing you said.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2014-02-14 05:51:13 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.

We've been running almost nonstop fleets for the last week killing sov structures in the east.

The remark was in reference to the small guy and the "thousand little pricks". You have a 37000 man alliance. 37 thousand pricks is a completely different story.

The first goon corp in Eve had something like 15 people in it. Stop trying to play Eve like a single player game and make some friends.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2014-02-14 08:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You can't destroy anything in Sov space so there is no "thousand pinpricks". A trillion isk worth of ships will fail to kill even a hundred million isk POCO. Sov null is more secure than a 1.0 high sec system.

We've been running almost nonstop fleets for the last week killing sov structures in the east.

The remark was in reference to the small guy and the "thousand little pricks". You have a 37000 man alliance. 37 thousand pricks is a completely different story.

The first goon corp in Eve had something like 15 people in it. Stop trying to play Eve like a single player game and make some friends.

The first Goon corp didn't have to deal with 24 hour staggered timers on 10,000,000 hp sov structures, automated emails from the server, 37000 man coalitions and the ability to drop thousands of ships including caps and supercaps on their heads. It was a very different game.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Alejandro Rebenga
#216 - 2014-02-14 08:33:07 UTC
Loving the posts Infinity :D keep 'em coming.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#217 - 2014-02-14 08:43:48 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The first Goon corp didn't have to deal with 24 hour staggered timers on 10,000,000 hp sov structures, automated emails from the server, 37000 man coalitions and the ability to drop thousands of ships including caps and supercaps on their heads. It was a very different game.

No, they had to deal with something far worse and much more painful: POS sov.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#218 - 2014-02-14 09:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The first Goon corp didn't have to deal with 24 hour staggered timers on 10,000,000 hp sov structures, automated emails from the server, 37000 man coalitions and the ability to drop thousands of ships including caps and supercaps on their heads. It was a very different game.

No, they had to deal with something far worse and much more painful: POS sov.

Wow. If you think that's worse than the current mechanics I guess you weren't around back then. Had Goons been required to turn up at a time when BoB was at its maximum strength, after being alerted instantly by the server something was under attack, and had thousands of ships magically flying across the universe, including supercarriers and titans, landing on their heads, Goons would have been crushed.

Pre-buffed POS warfare was nowhere near the road block that post sov changes put in place today. That you're trying to assert that fallacy is highly amusing.

Goons are entirely and artificially propped up by the changes Seleene and co made to the game. Remove those artificial barriers to null and watch Goons lose half their sov overnight. Won't happen because we have 100% null sec CSM as usual.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#219 - 2014-02-14 09:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Wow. If you think that's worse than the current mechanics I guess you weren't around back then.
If you think people didn't feel the dominion changes — bad as they turned out to be — were a massive improvement over the POS slog, I know you weren't around back then.

Quote:
Had Goons been required to turn up at a time when BoB was at its maximum strength, after being alerted instantly by the server something was under attack, and had thousands of ships magically flying across the universe, including supercarriers and titans, landing on their heads, Goons would have been crushed.
…except that, as history shows, they weren't. Just forced into a prolonged stalemate. After all, what you just said describes the old system perfectly (well… except maybe the supercarrier bit since moms were pretty awful back then) and we know what the outcome was. Trying to claim differently is just an outright fabrication.

Quote:
That you're trying to assert that fallacy is highly amusing.
How is it a fallacy?

Quote:
Remove those artificial barriers to null and watch Goons lose half their sov overnight. Won't happen because we have 100% null sec CSM as usual.
So what you're saying is that most the CSM is pretty keen on removing those barriers? If so, that's a pretty nice change of pace for you: being right for once.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#220 - 2014-02-14 10:27:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
"Little guy" here, and his 2 cents. I've always flirted with nullsec while basing out of lowsec. We used to live out of two systems that together fueled our POSes, filled our wallets, and supplied plenty of pew pew with local pirates and industrial players. Things change. The entire area is currently under heavy nullbloc surveillance. Each and every POCO and profitable moon in this area now belongs to shell corporations which have logged out alts on standby to create a Titan bridge at the earliest signs of resistance.

*Le Sigh*

I live in the Netherlands. Ever heard of a dyke? Without dykes to stop instant power projection, selecting any area below sea level to build housing is a bad idea. Currently it's the North Sea Flood of 1953 where I live. The cattle has drowned, we survive on our stockpiles and I am out of dry socks. The natural thing to do is go east, have a hot coffee and warm yourself at the comforting fire that is the hisec ISK faucet. Constant defensive adaptation turns into tedium. A previous sense of ownership becomes a sense of dread, a Sword of Damocles, a ticking timebomb.

Small guys stay small guys because they don't feel like sucking up to some Alliance's middle management, they don't have the resources to compete, or perhaps they don't have the time to dedicate to Eve's rediculous Sov mechanics and bureaucratic alliance nonsense. I sure don't. Nullsec simply isn't suitable for how we want to play, and lowsec is losing it's charm rapidly. Hisec (wardecs) and wormhole space (unrestricted PVP) are simply better, more enjoyable alternatives then living in the shadow of a colossus.