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CCP and where Incarna, Ambulation, Walking in stations? !

First post
Author
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#121 - 2014-01-25 15:13:49 UTC
Nikk Narrel you are ignoring my claim. That putting money into WiS takes money away from other more core things that makes eve eve.

WiS is not free, cannot be free. There is cost. Costs such as not fixing TiDi or whatever.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-01-26 04:59:26 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Nikk Narrel you are ignoring my claim. That putting money into WiS takes money away from other more core things that makes eve eve.

WiS is not free, cannot be free. There is cost. Costs such as not fixing TiDi or whatever.


First, He's not ignoring your claim. You changed it. Originally you were talking about monetary cost. Now your talking about opportunity costs which are subjective.
Second, There is a point where adding too many people to something subtracts from the project instead of adding to it.

Nikk's point is that they already have specialized people for WiS. Retasking them to work on WiS again won't physically cost CCP anything. Yes it may slow development down a tiny bit in another field but WiS devs would be far more productive in the field they specialized in. In business, talented employees are considered a valuable resource and you don't waste them on tasks in areas they aren't talented in.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2014-01-26 06:28:48 UTC
WIS is a cool idea but like many have pointed out it doesn't bring more to the game then focusing on other areas. Only reason i would like more WIS is if you could attack ppl who are docked, which lets be honest, CCP wouldnt allow.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#124 - 2014-01-26 08:21:03 UTC
WIS is the Cherry on my Icecream... to Bad the Icecream doesnt taste that much.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#125 - 2014-01-26 09:14:43 UTC
Opportunity costs are not subjective. If i spend a million dollars for one year on WiS "specialists"*, that is a million dollars i can't spend on "fixing TiDi" specialists. Its completely quantifiable. Even if you assert 100% specialized programmers.

Worse in this case in that you may not be able to fire these programmers after you realized you screwed up sinking money into WiS. Perhaps next time less specialized programmers would be a better economic choice.

However there is more. Integrating WiS into the rest of the code base is also not free. You can't just have WiS bolted onto the side for free. It has to integrate with everything else in eve. And now your using all the other people to integrate code for WiS instead of working on better things. More eve like things.

* A million dollars is not even 10 programmers at 100k + overheads.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-01-26 16:23:33 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Opportunity costs are not subjective. If i spend a million dollars for one year on WiS "specialists"*, that is a million dollars i can't spend on "fixing TiDi" specialists. Its completely quantifiable. Even if you assert 100% specialized programmers.

Worse in this case in that you may not be able to fire these programmers after you realized you screwed up sinking money into WiS. Perhaps next time less specialized programmers would be a better economic choice.

However there is more. Integrating WiS into the rest of the code base is also not free. You can't just have WiS bolted onto the side for free. It has to integrate with everything else in eve. And now your using all the other people to integrate code for WiS instead of working on better things. More eve like things.

* A million dollars is not even 10 programmers at 100k + overheads.


Then by your logic they should never add anything new to the game because it would take away from balancing things and fixing bugs. Doing things like that, Eve would have died years ago. If they hired less specialized programmers we would end up with half assed code that barely runs let alone integrates well with other systems. Also, you're still talking opportunity costs which btw are subjective because what you may think is a loss may not actually be. You need to go about this like a businessman instead of an economist.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#127 - 2014-01-26 16:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Delt0r Garsk
Burning Bob wrote:

Then by your logic they should never add anything new to the game because it would take away from balancing things and fixing bugs.

You are having reading comprehension issues. I never said that. What i said was that there is a real cost of adding a feature like WiS. Now is that cost worth it? I would say no in *this case* because its trying to do something eve will never be great at. WiS is a entire MMO in its own right where some of the "competition" are the biggest [edit] game dev companies in the world.

Adding WiS will mean all the parts of this game that make eve, eve, will get neglected for the worse. Because then it becomes a game that has neither compelling WiS or spaceships that actually spend time undocked.

Eve is not dying.

And even if it was, WiS would not save it.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-01-26 17:27:10 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Burning Bob wrote:

Then by your logic they should never add anything new to the game because it would take away from balancing things and fixing bugs.

You are having reading comprehension issues. I never said that. What i said was that there is a real cost of adding a feature like WiS. Now is that cost worth it? I would say no in *this case* because its trying to do something eve will never be great at. WiS is a entire MMO in its own right where some of the "competition" are the biggest [edit] game dev companies in the world.

Adding WiS will mean all the parts of this game that make eve, eve, will get neglected for the worse. Because then it becomes a game that has neither compelling WiS or spaceships that actually spend time undocked.

Eve is not dying.

And even if it was, WiS would not save it.

Apparently you're the one who has reading comprehension issues. I said if they acted like you eve would have died. Also, I wasn't quoting you I was following your logic. You don't want them to expand the game because anything they add won't be perfect from the start so its a waste regardless of its potential. CCP wants to turn eve into what we saw in the future vision trailer. WiS, Dust, and VR are all steps in that direction. Steps that you don't want them to take because you can't accept change.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#129 - 2014-01-26 17:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Delt0r Garsk
Logic? You are not following any logic. there is no logic in "WiS costs resources better spent elsewhere" to "Never add or change anything".

As i have repeatably said I think WiS is a waste of resources. I have not made a statement about anything thing else. But i would add Dust to that. Your putting words in my mouth that just suits your argument. I think thats a strawman? Can never remember.

Show me how the huge amount of resources for WiS are justified?

If you think it won't take lots of resources then you should join every MMMO ever that has people walking around and show them how to do it without these massive teams of developers and artists. Because no one else knows how to do that.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2014-01-26 19:01:03 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
there is no logic in "WiS costs resources better spent elsewhere".



Thats about the first correct thing you've said. I haven't been putting words in your mouth I've just been bringing your flawed logic to light. You said you think anything that wasn't related to the core of the game was a waste. Well, WiS will be related to the core of the game. Its just going to take more time than your short sightedness will allow. Honestly what can they add that's so much more important than them expanding the game to attract more people to it?
Quote:
Show me how the huge amount of resources for WiS are justified?

Did you not read the last portion of my post? They need to make WiS so they can build off of it later and make a much much better game.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-01-26 20:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
To improve the situation for us, we need to take small steps to divert their attention towards us.


99% of the people involved, right here on the forums, do crap **** to improve the situation.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#132 - 2014-01-27 04:38:13 UTC
CCP is going to invest and develop more than just the current well known aspect of EVE.

This is their company, and they have that right.

It might be walking in darkness, another DUST 514, or possibly something with that fighter game at the fanfest.

Since we know they are going to invest in things beyond the core game, as history demonstrates, why should we not support this being an addition to EVE, like WiS is expressed to be?

It has no reason to remove support from the primary game, or affect it meaningfully, as these resources are going to be invested in a diversified game portfolio regardless.

I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#133 - 2014-01-27 05:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Nikk Narrel wrote:


I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game.


Too late.

Star Citizen has more WiS in Beta than Eve has as a finished product. And that was before this whole "2nd re-alignment of Eve's future vision to an even greater FIS circle jerk"... now with mobile structures to expand boring spaceboat gameplay and soon to have destructible stargates to revitalize the stale sub-cap landscape.

CCP had the only angle, the only claim to a sci-fi space boat shooter with capacity for a WiS component. Hoping and allowing CCP to expand into other platforms in the hopes of generating more revenue from sales of platforms nobody cares to buy when they want to play a PC game is not going to help either.

Alas it seems the hoards of flat minded pro-FiS "gimmeh mah Rifters online" delinquents managed to kill that pipe dream by shooting some re-spawnable statues in a market hub and unsubbing their cyno alts, because they were not happy with having to fork out $50 for vanity items they didn't care for and dont use.

People who got into Eve because of Freelancer, looking to expand on that adventure... found joy in FiS for a number of years. But we never had the WiS side that freelancer had and the expectations for getting it working were so much more than we had back then (like owning the bars that agents were in... ala hi-sec pOCO tax anybody?). By the end of this year and a few more SC modules later, those people who joined Eve because of freelancer will leave Eve because of Star Citizen.

And I'll support that product and or service with a smile......while having my own stuff.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Cypherdog
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2014-01-27 10:24:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cypherdog
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

Edit: I would rather ask "Why is there still no comets, real Asteroid Belts in Space or why do we have over 5000+ Systems with only one Sun or why do we have still no physics or why cant we not use structures to hide and cover?"

I keep asking myself those questions. If they prefer to work on FiS instead of WiS, why haven't some those features already being developed? Edit: Binary systems already exist.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#135 - 2014-01-27 14:33:04 UTC
Cypherdog wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

Edit: I would rather ask "Why is there still no comets, real Asteroid Belts in Space or why do we have over 5000+ Systems with only one Sun or why do we have still no physics or why cant we not use structures to hide and cover?"

I keep asking myself those questions. If they prefer to work on FiS instead of WiS, why haven't some those features already being developed? Edit: Binary systems already exist.

Why don't we have flying cars everywhere, or robot butlers and maids?

Same reason, fixing and maintaining what we have takes a huge chunk of resources, leaving development with just enough to move at the current pace. Don't misunderstand, these projects are in the works, but they are nowhere near as simple as some might think.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2014-01-27 14:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Asuka Solo wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:


I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game.


Too late.

Star Citizen has more WiS in Beta than Eve has as a finished product. And that was before this whole "2nd re-alignment of Eve's future vision to an even greater FIS circle jerk"... now with mobile structures to expand boring spaceboat gameplay and soon to have destructible stargates to revitalize the stale sub-cap landscape.

CCP had the only angle, the only claim to a sci-fi space boat shooter with capacity for a WiS component. Hoping and allowing CCP to expand into other platforms in the hopes of generating more revenue from sales of platforms nobody cares to buy when they want to play a PC game is not going to help either.

Alas it seems the hoards of flat minded pro-FiS "gimmeh mah Rifters online" delinquents managed to kill that pipe dream by shooting some re-spawnable statues in a market hub and unsubbing their cyno alts, because they were not happy with having to fork out $50 for vanity items they didn't care for and dont use.

People who got into Eve because of Freelancer, looking to expand on that adventure... found joy in FiS for a number of years. But we never had the WiS side that freelancer had and the expectations for getting it working were so much more than we had back then (like owning the bars that agents were in... ala hi-sec pOCO tax anybody?). By the end of this year and a few more SC modules later, those people who joined Eve because of freelancer will leave Eve because of Star Citizen.

And I'll support that product and or service with a smile......while having my own stuff.


Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware....


Also you clearly were not here for the riots. because you do not get what happened.
We rioted and most unsubscribed ALL their accounts (as i did) because of the arrogant statements of eve directorship, and throwing us a CRAP HORRIBLE character rendering that they dared to call an expansiont hat REDUCED functionalities in game and caused several computers to have problems.

Eve community was clear, that mentality that CCP tried to switch into.. is somehting we do NOT TOLERATE.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#137 - 2014-01-27 16:06:42 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:


I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game.


Too late.

Star Citizen has more WiS in Beta than Eve has as a finished product. And that was before this whole "2nd re-alignment of Eve's future vision to an even greater FIS circle jerk"... now with mobile structures to expand boring spaceboat gameplay and soon to have destructible stargates to revitalize the stale sub-cap landscape.

CCP had the only angle, the only claim to a sci-fi space boat shooter with capacity for a WiS component. Hoping and allowing CCP to expand into other platforms in the hopes of generating more revenue from sales of platforms nobody cares to buy when they want to play a PC game is not going to help either.

Alas it seems the hoards of flat minded pro-FiS "gimmeh mah Rifters online" delinquents managed to kill that pipe dream by shooting some re-spawnable statues in a market hub and unsubbing their cyno alts, because they were not happy with having to fork out $50 for vanity items they didn't care for and dont use.

People who got into Eve because of Freelancer, looking to expand on that adventure... found joy in FiS for a number of years. But we never had the WiS side that freelancer had and the expectations for getting it working were so much more than we had back then (like owning the bars that agents were in... ala hi-sec pOCO tax anybody?). By the end of this year and a few more SC modules later, those people who joined Eve because of freelancer will leave Eve because of Star Citizen.

And I'll support that product and or service with a smile......while having my own stuff.


Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware....


Also you clearly were not here for the riots. because you do not get what happened.
We rioted and most unsubscribed ALL their accounts (as i did) because of the arrogant statements of eve directorship, and throwing us a CRAP HORRIBLE character rendering that they dared to call an expansiont hat REDUCED functionalities in game and caused several computers to have problems.

Eve community was clear, that mentality that CCP tried to switch into.. is somehting we do NOT TOLERATE.


I was actually. Lots of whoring on alts that could venture into Jita, I assure you.

Eve was vaporware until it was set in stone.

And its a shame you guys didn't stay unsubbed... Eve would have been a better place without you.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#138 - 2014-01-27 16:17:18 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware....


Also you clearly were not here for the riots. because you do not get what happened.
We rioted and most unsubscribed ALL their accounts (as i did) because of the arrogant statements of eve directorship, and throwing us a CRAP HORRIBLE character rendering that they dared to call an expansiont hat REDUCED functionalities in game and caused several computers to have problems.

Eve community was clear, that mentality that CCP tried to switch into.. is somehting we do NOT TOLERATE.

Vaporware + money = Actual Software.
There is no higher explanation for that equation, and that other piece of software has the money in place.

As to the riots, they were not about WiS.

WiS was collaterally damaged by the rumor of PTW coming to the game.
If they had simply left the default station environment alone, and put the captains quarters as the optional place you could look at if curious, the complaints would have been trivial.

As long as fighting in space is unaffected, there can be no truly valid complaints against WiS.
You can ignore it, or you can explore it, the same as anything else.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#139 - 2014-01-28 00:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware....


Also you clearly were not here for the riots. because you do not get what happened.
We rioted and most unsubscribed ALL their accounts (as i did) because of the arrogant statements of eve directorship, and throwing us a CRAP HORRIBLE character rendering that they dared to call an expansiont hat REDUCED functionalities in game and caused several computers to have problems.

Eve community was clear, that mentality that CCP tried to switch into.. is somehting we do NOT TOLERATE.

Vaporware + money = Actual Software.
There is no higher explanation for that equation, and that other piece of software has the money in place.

As to the riots, they were not about WiS.

WiS was collaterally damaged by the rumor of PTW coming to the game.
If they had simply left the default station environment alone, and put the captains quarters as the optional place you could look at if curious, the complaints would have been trivial.

As long as fighting in space is unaffected, there can be no truly valid complaints against WiS.
You can ignore it, or you can explore it, the same as anything else.


I can confirm that this is true, I rioted in all the hubs and biomassed my main in protest (25million sp at the time) the riots were about pay to win, not walking in stations.

The fact that people were annoyed over the incomplete incarna expansion which gave us only 1 cq when people wanted 4 proves that the riots were not about wis as clearly they wanted more avatar content and no pay to win with improvements to fis content. The biggest cause of anger was of course the greed is good memo which proposed plans for pay to win content in eve online.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Kabaos
Fulgur lumene
#140 - 2014-02-01 11:59:46 UTC
Atuesuel wrote:
Kabaos wrote:
Promises : https://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php/Walking_in_stations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzZRRPPw_QE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzy7DG8VR2s

Intresting concept :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_JteBc01fA

I will not repeat, and so there are lots of topics already about good Incarna.
Working : http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Myrkala/Incarna_Wallpaper1280x1024.jpg

I want to see the volumetric Sci-Fi, but not only space and ships.


Here's my suggestion poll http://www.rupoll.com/lcavvutysp.html


I would sugest buying this game

you can all ready walk in a hanger and its still just an alpha

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game



Hm, intresting.