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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2801 - 2013-10-31 12:17:14 UTC
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:
CCP Seagull wrote:
Thanks for the email!

CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)

/Seagull

I guess the 1Hz server tick is what is causing the biggest headache for the avatar gameplay. To move it externally might be the best way to get around it. I can totally see a re-use of a future WoD engine that is well integrated with EVE using CREST. Unless you are docked you can't activate the character in "new avatar game".

Ah well, I will remain subbed for another 5 years so we will see how things look like then.


Stations already are instanced outside of the "space" server. This is why it takes time to dock and undock as assets are transfered and resynchronized. As long as the station side doesn't interacts with the space side, the stations can do whatever they please (databases are ticked at 1 hz nonetheless, independently of where the asset is located).

WiS could even be twitch based as long as the interactions to the Sol mainframe were at 1 hz -that's what DUST does.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2802 - 2013-10-31 13:07:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
CCP Seagull wrote:
Thanks for the email!

CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)

/Seagull


At least, from an optimistic standpoint, we can assume this is Seagull's personal view of how Avatar based game-play will progress in the distant future. We know it doesn't reflect others opinion further down in the company. It's just whether her superiors think the same or not that is worrying.

I don't imagine Seagull will last long in her current position anyway. Call it a hunch. So far, she has been in charge for the production of what I think are the two worst expansions Eve has seen. Odyssey, and Rubicon. Thankfully I have found a reason not to unsub, because Rubicon certainly isn't going to provide one.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2803 - 2013-10-31 18:00:00 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
CCP Seagull wrote:
Thanks for the email!

CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)

/Seagull


At least, from an optimistic standpoint, we can assume this is Seagull's personal view of how Avatar based game-play will progress in the distant future. We know it doesn't reflect others opinion further down in the company. It's just whether her superiors think the same or not that is worrying.

I don't imagine Seagull will last long in her current position anyway. Call it a hunch. So far, she has been in charge for the production of what I think are the two worst expansions Eve has seen. Odyssey, and Rubicon. Thankfully I have found a reason not to unsub, because Rubicon certainly isn't going to provide one.


Huh... not. CCP Seagull is Senior Producer and she's in charge to implement from a production standpoint the guidelines provided by the Executive Producer.

Of course, as long as there is not a Executive Producer, she's pretty much working on her own, with an oversize production plan which, by not having a EP, doubles as a development plan.

So, making a simile, in a ordinary company, Hilmar says: "we want a Public building in EVE". The EP says "Ok, we can provide a Public Library with this parameters". Then CCP Seagull says "we have this blueprints and this people, let's do it".

Currently at CCP, CCP Seagull has produced the blueprints for "Project Hallelujah" and Hilmar has OK'ed it without an EP deciding they really want or need or can make it, and so any EP they may hire will have to carry it on for whatever other projects he figures. Prior to that, they took some scrap papers which the former EP had left on his table and released Odyssey after the CSM 7 was horrified to learn what were their actual plans for it (the actual production plan for Odyssey was determined in february on the base of whatever could be finished by the release date, and that showed, obviously).

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#2804 - 2013-10-31 20:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:

I guess the 1Hz server tick is what is causing the biggest headache for the avatar gameplay. To move it externally might be the best way to get around it. I can totally see a re-use of a future WoD engine that is well integrated with EVE using CREST. Unless you are docked you can't activate the character in "new avatar game".

Ah well, I will remain subbed for another 5 years so we will see how things look like then.


Stations already are instanced outside of the "space" server. This is why it takes time to dock and undock as assets are transfered and resynchronized. As long as the station side doesn't interacts with the space side, the stations can do whatever they please (databases are ticked at 1 hz nonetheless, independently of where the asset is located).

WiS could even be twitch based as long as the interactions to the Sol mainframe were at 1 hz -that's what DUST does.


So, we're waiting for WoD and for the brain-in-a-box, at the very least; if it's another game "in the EVE universe," we might end up getting stuck rolling new characters and playing a different game altogether. That's a possibility that CCP Unifex has also suggested, which tells me that it's not just CCP Seagull's opinion.

I suppose that another way to look at "A Future Vision" is that it depicts three games: the EvE ship combat outside, the DUST514 combat planetside, and the intrigues of the people who we've assumed were capsuleers in the station. That would make avatar gameplay an interaction point between EvE and DUST, just not the way we hoped.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2805 - 2013-10-31 20:24:02 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
I suppose that another way to look at "A Future Vision" is that it depicts three games: the EvE ship combat outside, the DUST514 combat planetside, and the intrigues of the people who we've assumed were capsuleers in the station. That would make avatar gameplay an interaction point between EvE and DUST, just not the way we hoped.

...and ideally all of them are on different systems, and generate their own form of revenue, be it subscriptions or chash shop. No, thanks, I don't see that happening for me.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#2806 - 2013-10-31 20:50:02 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
I suppose that another way to look at "A Future Vision" is that it depicts three games: the EvE ship combat outside, the DUST514 combat planetside, and the intrigues of the people who we've assumed were capsuleers in the station. That would make avatar gameplay an interaction point between EvE and DUST, just not the way we hoped.

...and ideally all of them are on different systems, and generate their own form of revenue, be it subscriptions or chash shop. No, thanks, I don't see that happening for me.


If CCP call it "Station Games," I might try it just because the name is so awesome.

Otherwise, meh.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#2807 - 2013-11-01 00:14:05 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:

So, we're waiting for WoD and for the brain-in-a-box, at the very least; if it's another game "in the EVE universe," we might end up getting stuck rolling new characters and playing a different game altogether.


WOD already announced time ago they was going to drop the Carbon engine and go for an indipendent one. Beside, are years they have WOD and still nobody have seen not a demo, not a generic design idea but not even a concept art. Basically never started, and even if they start to devlop it the average time for a MMORPG is 4-5 years.

"EVE Universe" is simply what they was already doing, the megalomaniac project that caused the summer rage: the idea to be able to deliver and support several game titles, not merged with EVE. Nothing changed, they only rearranged it, fired some developers and gave some pubblic relation cookies to the morons shooting at a statue.

And continued doing what they were already doing.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2808 - 2013-11-01 00:27:10 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


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Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2809 - 2013-11-02 13:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:

So, we're waiting for WoD and for the brain-in-a-box, at the very least; if it's another game "in the EVE universe," we might end up getting stuck rolling new characters and playing a different game altogether.


WOD already announced time ago they was going to drop the Carbon engine and go for an indipendent one. Beside, are years they have WOD and still nobody have seen not a demo, not a generic design idea but not even a concept art. Basically never started, and even if they start to devlop it the average time for a MMORPG is 4-5 years.

"EVE Universe" is simply what they was already doing, the megalomaniac project that caused the summer rage: the idea to be able to deliver and support several game titles, not merged with EVE. Nothing changed, they only rearranged it, fired some developers and gave some pubblic relation cookies to the morons shooting at a statue.

And continued doing what they were already doing.




Huh... not. Back in november 2011, there was a rumour, later confirmed, that WoD development was to detach their version of Carbon from the one used on EVE, effectively meaning that WoD's Carbon engine is no longer compatible with EVE's. Work on WoD is continuing and most of 2013 has been spent in content design; the Atlanta office has been hiring many content creators and so probably in 2014 WoD will start being beefed, so maybe in Fanfest 2014 CCP can show something really ingame.

Personally, I am still interested in WoD and its "cafe" side, but I am not too keen on the horror genre and obviously a space faring game with avatar content is more appealing to me than WoD. Specially because I never played a SF themed, avatar based MMO.

It's pity CCP won't oblige, as I've got some really nice characters in EVE. What?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#2810 - 2013-11-02 14:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.

We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2811 - 2013-11-02 14:30:06 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.

We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up.


With Odyssey 1.2, they introduced a interesting small change: new characters are now randomly spawned either at the hangar view or the CQ, in order to test wether this haves an impact in player retention.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2812 - 2013-11-02 14:32:55 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.

We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up.


they have 1 universe you think they will give that up?
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#2813 - 2013-11-02 14:40:34 UTC
fuer0n wrote:

they have 1 universe you think they will give that up?


TBH sometimes it feels they give less than a **** about their precious baby of a game. Many players seem to be a lot more passionate about the game than the people who birthed it.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2814 - 2013-11-02 14:50:23 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Teinyhr wrote:
fuer0n wrote:

they have 1 universe you think they will give that up?


TBH sometimes it feels they give less than a **** about their precious baby of a game. Many players seem to be a lot more passionate about the game than the people who birthed it.



this game a baby? lol spawn maybe never a baby.:)

edit i dont mean that in a good way or a bad way.
Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#2815 - 2013-11-02 15:02:25 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.

We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up.
Agreed 100%.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2816 - 2013-11-03 15:38:19 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic.

The rules:
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#2817 - 2013-11-03 15:51:21 UTC
Yeah, I still don't understand why they don't just make wow-esque avatars and some station environments, war-rooms, etc.

Just because you attempted to re-invent the wheel with avatars and failed doesn't mean you need to scrap the basic concept that was perfectly sound.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2818 - 2013-11-03 23:54:22 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:
If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.

We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up.
Agreed 100%.


This.

Avatar game play has to be integrated within the eve client if it is to be worthwhile. Everybody wants to see other people's ships flying past their station window, or entering and leaving the dock in real time. Hard to see how this can be done if all the games share is a chatbox.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#2819 - 2013-11-04 10:40:34 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Yeah, I still don't understand why they don't just make wow-esque avatars and some station environments, war-rooms, etc.

Just because you attempted to re-invent the wheel with avatars and failed doesn't mean you need to scrap the basic concept that was perfectly sound.


Avatar based gameplay is today a well defined standard so probably the most easy to improve, they could have used a third party engine for this part of WiS.

But I think the plan was to develop their own engine (Carbon), to use not only for WiS but also for WoD, Dust, and other titles in the future. CQ and Character creator were not part of EVE development but a demo for this engine.

Now, devloping a game engine is convenient on the long run and if you can resell it or use it on several products to write off the initial expenses; but requires a company to have major focus on it.

Is not like you can carry on 2-3 different MMORPG development on different platform AND an engine at the same time. I think not even Sony, EA or Blizzard can do that so easly.

I think at CCp are great guys and devlopers but I don't think as company they're really able to mantain more than one product line. Mostly if is a product like EVE.
So if they're focusing on Dust they are not focusing on EVE (beside the daily mantainence, tweaks, bug fixes and such), if they focus on Valkirie or WoD they're not focusing on EVE... And so on.






Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2820 - 2013-11-04 13:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Hey people, it's me again, ready to burst some bubbles.


CQ is a different environment that FIS, WIS would be like that CQ too. Two different environments, so no ships flying outside windows in real time, no seamless undocking in real time. The avatar environment was made from scratch, and was made separately from the FIS, so to avoid the 1 sec tick, and not to spoil Jita with perma TIDI hitting when 10 people will try to go to the space bathroom and flush the water.

So no, no seamless FIS and WIS, the boundary is technical in nature, and it's there not to break the environment we all know from the beginning.

Inside the WIS environment outside window you could just add some ships flying, like in the station docking bay. Or a planet, in the manner the orientation and kind of planet would work like a doubled part of the FIS in WIS. I see it as the only way to do that.