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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2461 - 2013-10-03 12:43:41 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Goons are people too (maybe not Rhes), you know?

If you say so... Blink

Just kidding. I'm well aware that not all Goons I like that... I just think their original agenda... their "mission" if you will.. was stupid.

Anyways, that's a non topic... Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#2462 - 2013-10-03 15:08:38 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time.


It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released.

Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon.

Carbon is so much more than WiS.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2463 - 2013-10-03 17:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Crasniya wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time.


It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released.

Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon.

Carbon is so much more than WiS.


I suppose even this Avatar exploration was prototyped in unity. Carbon is much better than a complete lack of a decent engine, but if you ask me they would be smart to keep Valkyrie in Unity indefinitely. Well, actually if you really ask me they would do better to drop Valkyrie until World of Darkness and Dust are pulling their weight financially so that Eve development doesn't suffer for having to pull their weight.

Also, this thread hit over 80k views. Not long until it's the most viewed thread on the forum, stickied threads included. (-1).

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Flamespar
WarRavens
#2464 - 2013-10-04 06:01:09 UTC
There's more to Carbon that the graphics side of things. There was a pretty good presentation on it at one fanfest (can't remember which one)

Lateris
#2465 - 2013-10-04 16:32:06 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time.


It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released.

Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon.

Carbon is so much more than WiS.



I thought they were rewriting Valkyrie in Unity? So if it is rewritten in carbon that leads to the O-R- being used in Eve?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2466 - 2013-10-04 16:57:28 UTC
Lateris wrote:
Crasniya wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time.


It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released.

Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon.

Carbon is so much more than WiS.



I thought they were rewriting Valkyrie in Unity? So if it is rewritten in carbon that leads to the O-R- being used in Eve?


I don't know that they are re-writing it at all, but it was definitely using Unity when they started developing it.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#2467 - 2013-10-05 03:16:51 UTC
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2468 - 2013-10-05 08:25:04 UTC

Yea, looks really cool... this game will just bleed immersion!

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2469 - 2013-10-05 08:39:40 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:

Yea, looks really cool... this game will just bleed immersion!


89,999 whatever trenchcoats? I hope those are just placeholder prices! Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2470 - 2013-10-05 09:03:51 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
89,999 whatever trenchcoats? I hope those are just placeholder prices! Lol

Could be... also, we don't know how much credits will really be worth... but it sure looks nice.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Susiqueta Muir
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#2471 - 2013-10-05 09:24:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Susiqueta Muir
I'm all for the inclusion of wis content alongside ifs and I don't subscribe to the view that development of one will be at the detriment of the other.

I've said it before, the wod development for character development and clothing etc could be crossed over with the eve wis / next store items to a degree and could be used as a test bed for those items.

My old style avatar pre-incarna looked like she had been dragged out of the pod and shoved into a dress for a formal mugshot. The range of items and customization under the old system was immense. Surely some of the development for wod could be brought across without breaking the genre?

New zones and spaces? Take the rooms already created for dust and re-skin for eve? Take the player room and use it for a market views pace. Take the big ready room and add a big 3d ship fitting screen, where you can drag fittings to and from the hangar to your ship? Totally replicates the normal fitting screen, just scales it up and makes it something you can walk around in.

My only concern over EVR is that it doesn't interact directly with eve in e same way dust does. If not directly linked then it is an interesting sideline but essentially a shard experience rather than a single universe...

Sm.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2472 - 2013-10-05 12:30:48 UTC
Susiqueta Muir wrote:
(...)

My old style avatar pre-incarna looked like she had been dragged out of the pod and shoved into a dress for a formal mugshot. The range of items and customization under the old system was immense. Surely some of the development for wod could be brought across without breaking the genre?(...).


Heh...


Susiqueta Muir, Old & New


Myself...

Indah...

Yiole...

The old portraits were cartoonish but totally Sci-fi, wereas the new ones are way better but look totally 2011. And a few pages above I already showed how that was not the plan, at least not in 2007/8.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Susiqueta Muir
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#2473 - 2013-10-05 13:36:30 UTC
Aye, the characters had a certain scifi charm and a huge range of variation which is so missing from the new system, plus if the pod pilots are gods amongst men, why are they stuck with a totally utilitarian look? Use the WOD items that are developed and cross-port the non-genre breaking ones. He'll, it'll even be a way of getting metrics on what items and styles are popular...

Quick win to keep the space barbies happy :).

Content wise, wis should be a pleasant distraction from fis, there shouldn't be anything in there that you can't do from the hangar interface, but what it will give is a whole new level of immersion and engagement for players old and new.

When playing the market, yes I can do it all from the comfort of CQ or even the ship hangar, but what's wrong with standing in a virtual trade house room, with maybe different market feeds on each wall panel, or links to external websites up on screens to look at and interact with rather than just having more browser windows open?

The ship hangar, yes, a series of icons to show the ships is fine, but how about being able to see the ships side by side in an actual storage room? How about seeing from your current hangar view the ship currently piloted by the person above and below you on the guest list? You change fittings or move cargo, cargo bots or fitting teams animate in the background. Hell, if I buy 1bn units of tritanium, I want to go and sit atop a pile of boxes or a huge gold pile of all my isk.. :).

Little things that add immersion but don't detract from "core pew pew" gameplay. Turn it off or ignore it if you want to , no problem with that.

Stating that all development MUST be purely focused on FIS gameplay is a recipe for disaster IMO. If the game can't develop and change over time then it risks becoming more and more of a niche environment. I'm sure that will please many but without new players with more ways into and to interact with the eve universe then player numbers and ultimately the game will fall.

If the demand is there then it would be stupid to ignore it and not invest in an area of the game players are interested in. Hire some more devs if needs be. Get a small team re-engaged fully again. The proof of concept that is EVR is a shining example of what a small team can achieve when focused.

SM.
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#2474 - 2013-10-05 13:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
Susiqueta Muir wrote:
...


I think the point is, that if development time is spent on WiS (and I hope that it is), that it needs to add to the game rather than being another way of doing something we can already do.

An actual market, or shops sound fantastic but on the face of things you can still just do that from a window. If WiS is added, it needs something extra. A new purpose, if you will. Like, for example, this exploration prototype.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2475 - 2013-10-05 14:03:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Just make WIS everything what we cant do now but what we want to do. Doubling the functionalities is not the road to go. We have it already.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2476 - 2013-10-05 14:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Shalua Rui wrote:

Yea, looks really cool... this game will just bleed immersion!


And in doing so CCP will bleed subscribers....

Edit: I've noticed in recent patches that the dumbing down trend has robbed the game of some of it's immersion, not to mention other changes that fly in the face of the established lore for example I'm not that interested in industry, but I liked the fact that rogue dones dropped alloys as rogue drones build their own hives and presumably would need the alloys to do that. Now they drop bounties it's just not the same. A little bit of immersion has been lost. As a community we're poorer as a result.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#2477 - 2013-10-05 15:03:10 UTC
I would like to see WiS

But I think before CCP start on that it would be better to fix the Corporation/Alliance Roles & Permissions in conjunction with use of POSes & Outposts first.

It does appear like maybe CCP will design a new Roles & Permissions / POS system separate from the current system then ditch the old code/system and replace it with the new one. At least the new 'POS-type' items in the Rubicon release suggest that may be the case. I say whichever way you want to fix it this should be the primary task. Everything else should be put to one side.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2478 - 2013-10-05 16:29:39 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
I would like to see WiS

But I think before CCP start on that it would be better to fix the Corporation/Alliance Roles & Permissions in conjunction with use of POSes & Outposts first.

It does appear like maybe CCP will design a new Roles & Permissions / POS system separate from the current system then ditch the old code/system and replace it with the new one. At least the new 'POS-type' items in the Rubicon release suggest that may be the case. I say whichever way you want to fix it this should be the primary task. Everything else should be put to one side.


WiS can start in very small steps. It is kind of fun how they've bothered to make a plan to add "new space" in small steps but couldn't do for WiS. There's no task more complicated than the one you don't want to do...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2479 - 2013-10-05 19:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2ç thought: seeing the backlash of the SOMER Ishukone Scorpions giveaway, probably they should had settled it with some NEx items rather than rare ships. P

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2480 - 2013-10-05 22:50:01 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
2ç thought: seeing the backlash of the SOMER Ishukone Scorpions giveaway, probably they should had settled it with some NEx items rather than rare ships. P


Or they could have given away some plex as inflating the economy doesn't affect prices allegedly.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...