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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1721 - 2013-09-17 22:26:41 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it.

Well, right now, I'm far from unsubbing... but then again, I can afford one game I don't actually play, no? Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Loch Bannon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1722 - 2013-09-17 22:48:17 UTC
I can't say that I'd climb aboard the unsub wagon if Avatar play never came to pass. I CAN however say that if quality gameplay were offered in this department, I would personally add another account or two here. Especially if I knew that both aspects of play tied into each other. Why pay elsewhere if you can do it all from one game. Just my two cents, but why be not be THE game to play rather than A game to play?

"I fly from an 'od'.  There is no 'pee' in it, let's keep it that way." --Lochness
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1723 - 2013-09-17 23:35:25 UTC
At the moment I have a 12 month subscription that I won't be renewing unless CCP announces something for WiS that isn't clothing related. I'm talking actual gameplay folks.

It's not a rage quit thing, it's more of a "well EVE isn't fulfilling it's promises, so I'll go play something else".

Meanwhile Star Citizen keeps looking better and better. Salvaging derelicts? Shame CCP can't follow through on it's awesome ideas.
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1724 - 2013-09-18 03:42:15 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.

Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.

Dock ship
Enter Captains Quarters
Walk to War Room
Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons)
Walk to Strategic room
Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start
Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment

And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.

So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.

It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more.
Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.

Doing things like PS3 exclusive and 3D Occulus support only type of design not only alienates your current paying customers but segregates your gameplay to other niches which takes away from your overall gaming community for your products.

This is not hard CCP, your lack of direction and implementation of creativity seems to be for you. I'm happy with the progress EVE has made, I'm not happy with the missed opportunity with DUST, the avatar shelved projects, and I'm not happy that Valkyrie will turn out to be one awesomely half-ass'edly implemented idea.

This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol

Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.

As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate.

+1

Got tired of saying for the last few years, glad someone else is trying to get them to,listen.

Dont get your hopes up btw. They just dont seem to give a ****.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#1725 - 2013-09-18 05:12:15 UTC
I have given MWO about a years subscription worth of money thus far, for vanity items and "p2w" (not really p2w because hero mechs generally actually suck), this money could have been yours CCP if you just gave me something worthwhile to spend it on.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1726 - 2013-09-18 06:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Arduemont wrote:
I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it.


Well, I haven't had any recurring subscription for almost a year. This account is running on a return offer of 55 euros for 6 months, that's a bit more than 9 euros per month and looks like a good deal in terms of game value. It's gonna last until December 13th.

What will happen next, i can't tell because it depends on CCP, the winter expansion, and the Hallellujah Plan. I have a sitting PLEX on my alt account and may fire it sooner than later, and albeit I am running **** poor lvl2 and lvl3s I've got some pocket to buy another PLEX for Ish if I need the time to flog CCP a bit more.

In terms of unsubs, the real deal is what will CCP do to retain everyone who would rather play SC in the event that SC actually delivers. And certainly the derelict exploration looks like it's stepping on CCP's toes...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1727 - 2013-09-18 06:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it.

In terms of unsubs, the real deal is what will CCP do to retain everyone who would rather play SC in the event that SC actually delivers. And certainly the derelict exploration looks like it's stepping on CCP's toes...


I don't think they'll do anything. The sceptic in me says they will release nothing interesting and subs will fall this coming expansion, like I suspect it has been since Odyssey. With the massive sub raise after Retribution they will still probably be up from the year before, but that's a lot of wasted potential. That said, if this next expansion is crap and so are the next two, then I image CCP will see a lower total subs than the year before scenario. A first for CCP.

In all likelihood, they will pull something out of the bag within the next year and a half, but at the moment I am not convinced. The Marauder changes sound very interesting, sure... A little bit more than just balancing I guess, but I don't fly Marauders and have no intention of doing so just because they're changing. We'll get some idea of what is coming trickle through sooner rather than later hopefully.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Horus V
The Destined
#1728 - 2013-09-18 08:47:29 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.

Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.

Dock ship
Enter Captains Quarters
Walk to War Room
Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons)
Walk to Strategic room
Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start
Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment

And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.

So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.

It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more.
Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.

Doing things like PS3 exclusive and 3D Occulus support only type of design not only alienates your current paying customers but segregates your gameplay to other niches which takes away from your overall gaming community for your products.

This is not hard CCP, your lack of direction and implementation of creativity seems to be for you. I'm happy with the progress EVE has made, I'm not happy with the missed opportunity with DUST, the avatar shelved projects, and I'm not happy that Valkyrie will turn out to be one awesomely half-ass'edly implemented idea.

This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol

Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.

As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate.

+1

Got tired of saying for the last few years, glad someone else is trying to get them to,listen.

Dont get your hopes up btw. They just dont seem to give a ****.

+ 1

V
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1729 - 2013-09-18 09:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Well, CCP tried (are still trying) to expand their universe... to a new audience, new system, new technology... that's vision! Alas, as other companies already had to learn the hard (expensive) way, the market just isn't right for that yet. If you you want to be too visionary, you end up alienating your customers, something CCP has a track record for, I'm afraid. They tried to make the EVE community bigger and ended up fracturing it... I hope they realize that, and soon...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1730 - 2013-09-18 12:00:15 UTC
Confirming a room to sit in is "visionary".

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1731 - 2013-09-18 13:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
inb4 RSI delivers the universe CCP wanted to deliver but only better (running on a single graphic engine and PC platform) while CCP keeps rubbing their CCPeen to "single shard universes" and "2000 player battles" (while running 3 games on 3 different engines and platforms and watching the other 80% of their playerbase who don't engage in time-dilated blobs unsub and go play SC).
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#1732 - 2013-09-18 13:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Varius Xeral wrote:
Confirming a room to sit in is "visionary".



Now it sounded like a complete ignorance, posting something like that in the topic where future of exploration was discussed just from the beginning, and even prototype was showed on you tube from some russian convent.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1733 - 2013-09-18 15:08:58 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
inb4 RSI delivers the universe CCP wanted to deliver but only better (running on a single graphic engine and PC platform) while CCP keeps rubbing their CCPeen to "single shard universes" and "2000 player battles" (while running 3 games on 3 different engines and platforms and watching the other 80% of their playerbase who don't engage in time-dilated blobs unsub and go play SC).


ye, I've never seen a 2000 player battle directly, just on youtube. Now if only it actually looked like the cgi battles they have on several of their trailer videos, but noooo its a bunch of blue and red squares at max zoomout that is quite the opposite of exciting. 
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1734 - 2013-09-18 15:15:16 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Confirming a room to sit in is "visionary".

Written like a person with no vision what so ever... or a lazy troll. Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
handbanana
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1735 - 2013-09-18 15:25:21 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
inb4 RSI delivers the universe CCP wanted to deliver but only better (running on a single graphic engine and PC platform) while CCP keeps rubbing their CCPeen to "single shard universes" and "2000 player battles" (while running 3 games on 3 different engines and platforms and watching the other 80% of their playerbase who don't engage in time-dilated blobs unsub and go play SC).


What color is the sky in the universe you live in?

Do you sometimes leave your home while wearing aluminum foil headgear?

Do you have a prescription for the drugs you are taking?

Do you have a newsletter that like-minded zealots can subscribe to?

“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”    -Jack Handy
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1736 - 2013-09-18 15:30:17 UTC
While people might leave due to a lack of avatar gaming, it will be spun that the old sov rules still in place is the reason people are leaving - bored null security pilots.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1737 - 2013-09-18 16:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
J3ssica Alba wrote:

ye, I've never seen a 2000 player battle directly, just on youtube. Now if only it actually looked like the cgi battles they have on several of their trailer videos, but noooo its a bunch of blue and red squares at max zoomout that is quite the opposite of exciting.


Lol yep little squares and spreadsheets in space, being painted in trailers as graphically appealing and visceral gameplay. What SC is gonna deliver ingame is what EVE pretends to be in trailers.
Cade Windstalker
#1738 - 2013-09-18 16:46:24 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:

Last I checked you were only up for a ban if you picked on new players within their entry systems and certain story mission systems. It would be an easy task to list and avoid killing them in any of those systems. Technically you could even kill them en-route. I've highlighted the key text in my original post quoted above.


Actually it's been stated, repeatedly, that specifically targeting new players is an actionable offense (I believe there was a thread on this recently). While ganking in the starting systems is an offense period. If they determine that you're specifically targeting new players they will drop the hammer pretty damn quick.

Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
This thread is basically a petition, and every thread created after it is (which are quickly closed because they're duplicates). CCP isn't going to pay any attention to a player made Facebook page. Something has to happen that they will notice, something which will affect them. Something in-game. I'm not necessarily saying we should just start mass suicide ganking new players, but something needs to happen. Something that other players will want to join in with.


The best thing we can do is show that there's enthusiasm for this type of gameplay in the Eve community. We don't need to start lighting stuff on fire to get CCP's attention, if you want to help the ball keep rolling then ping the CSM, if only to let them know that there is definitely interest in this sort of content.

Lipbite wrote:
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.

Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.


Star Citizen has promised a lot of things and currently they have a frack-ton of money to do it with (especially when you consider they don't really need a marketing budget at this point).

Color me just a little bit skeptical if they're actually going to be able to deliver everything they've promised though. And I certainly wouldn't expect Eve scale space-battles out of them. Straight

oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
How much of the so much needed re balancing stuff ,UI overhaul and new space graphics would be done by now if that Dustcrap did not exist.


Exactly as much as has been done. Dust 514 is its own game with its own team and its own profits. They wouldn't have been able to justify hiring new people for Dust without Dust to finance those new people. Hence why when CCP announced they were moving people off of WoD they had to let a lot of those people go.
Cade Windstalker
#1739 - 2013-09-18 17:05:29 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.

Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.

Dock ship
Enter Captains Quarters
Walk to War Room
Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons)
Walk to Strategic room
Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start
Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment


Which would made the whole project more technically challenging to develop and restricted them to whatever overlap there is between the shooter market and the Eve market, plus restricted them on how they developed the Dust gameplay, level progression and a dozen other things.

Dust was never going to be part of the Eve client and it never should be.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a PC port, but consoles are a LOT easier to develop for than the PC since you're hitting a single hardware configuration.

Plus from a financial standpoint it makes sense to go where your customers are and the console shooter market is pretty big.

arcca jeth wrote:
And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.


So? It's a fun prototype that was popular enough to get its own little team, we don't even know details beyond "it's an expansion of that cool thing from Fanfest" and you're making over-reaching predictions about its long-term success?

arcca jeth wrote:
So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.

It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more.
Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.


Star Citizen isn't due for a full release until 2015 and that's assuming nothing gets pushed, ever (and their release schedule looks just a touch ambitious) meaning Star Citizen will release in... about 4 Eve expansions. Color me unconcerned.

Again, problems with integrating one market with another. Also the Eve client doesn't do real-time hit detection for a reason. That would be a horrible lag-machine and people would probably prefer that their Fighters do consistent DPS rather than handing them over to a squad of scrubs who would be better served participating in ships rather than flying around with the Oculus Rift.


arcca jeth wrote:
This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol

Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.

As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate.


So, there's a bit of a difference between a Game Developer and a Programmer. For one, a programmer is not the person who reworked the skill names, that would probably be one or more gameplay designers who wanted to make the game more intuitive for new people (you know, the people who let Eve keep growing as people like you rage-quit).

There's also this thing where development takes time and the more ambitious the feature is the more time it takes. This was sort of the original problem with WiS and why it took so long to develop and still wasn't finished. The game needs polishing which means less new features. New features also will need polishing and will introduce bugs and problems and all that other fun stuff which will need to be fixed.

Also you're not paying CCP to listen to your ranting, you're paying them to play the game. It is in CCP's best interests to listen to the player-base and make decisions based on their feedback, but they are not required to listen to your ranting any more than they're required to jump when you yell jump. CCP aren't going to listen to bad or non-viable ideas no matter how loudly you yell.

Oh, funny fact, when there's new content people yell for polish, when there's polish people yell for new content...
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1740 - 2013-09-18 17:09:48 UTC
inb4 CCP tries to hire Roberts to unbork EVE.