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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Lipbite
Express Hauler
#1701 - 2013-09-17 12:59:26 UTC
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.

Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1702 - 2013-09-17 13:01:25 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.

Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.


yep they reached the $19m mark and are now aiming for 20 and higher, I see good things in the future of exploration/WiS .. but in SC not Eve =)
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1703 - 2013-09-17 13:20:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
This goes beyond WiS. It stretches into PvE, hisec content, solo playing and casual friendliness.

Oh my, the evil word... I bet Goons all over EVE are breathing into bags just about now... Blink

I agree though. EVE is certainly NOT dying, but neither is it growing/inventing itself... all we have is a "future vision" but no real path how to get there... all the while CCP is pouring afford into games that are, while EVE related, not EVE.

DUST's integration into the game was a nice idea, but it clearly wasn't the big "industry changer" that CCP thought it would be... not in itself and especially not for EVE, and Valkyrie will be neither. They should take what they learned there and actually put it to use on their main game... you know, the game that kept them alive for 10 years.

EVE's spaceship (core) gameplay is strong... I don't think it would be endangered/dumbed down by some "bells and whistles". Blink

@ Davon: That's one possibility... and actually a very "EVE'esque" one. Blink ...but I think we should try a less aggressive approach first. Maybe a petition or a Facebook group?


Well, I see EVE more as living out of the larder. Sooner or later, it will need to go foraging or it will starve.

The same 10 year old trick won't convince those who weren't convinced in the last 10 years, but the good news are that EVE's focus on "core" gameplay has left behind an enormous pool of unused possibilities. EVE never tried to have avatars, nor develop some engaging PvE, never has taken hisec seriously, and never attempted to have serious features where devoting 20 x 30 minutes had the same performance as spending 10 hours non-stop.

The list of "things never done" is long for EVE, and so it's full of possibilities once they stop iterating the some old trick. Nullsec stinks. Lowsec is a desert. Wormholes are a niche within a niche. And yet I see more people in local than never before... in hisec.

Doing the same will just attract the same peeople, and in terms of "core" gameplay, that people is quitting the game faster than new recruits are lured to it.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1704 - 2013-09-17 13:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Shocked

This Merry-Go-Round topic still active?

First it's on, then it's off, then on again, then off. It's a never ending cycle that just keeps going ...... and going ...... and going ...... Sorta like the Energizer Bunny.

And wasn't Team Avatar disbanded and it's members placed into other CCP Teams?

Now don't get me wrong, the idea of having Avatar game play content is all fine and dandy. The problem is having that content appeal to everyone which isn't gonna happen any time soon. Mainly because everyone has a different interpretation of what that content should entail.



DMC


Yes, it's going over and over, and some people still fail to read the first pages of it which contain the CCP Devs' posts. They stated that they already have a finished prototype for EVA gameplay and that its implementation will lay foundations for station social areas. I agree that the content delivered will not appeal to everyone, but hey, that's bound to happen anytime you want to expand the game. Some people will like it, others won't. Some will initially hate it and then love it and vice-versa. This shouldn't and surely won't stop them from working on and delivering it though, which I belive will happen as soon as those guys come back to work on EVE and the major spaceship and core gameplay issues are dealt with.

Shalua Rui wrote:

Also: As long as there is oxygen, there can be fire, so stations CAN burn from the inside... if not for very long.


As long as there's oxigen there can be fire. That's true. So that means stations can burn "in the inside" (with different fires than you have here on earth due to different gravity and air compositions) and not "from the inside". You're ignoring that space is a vaccum environment, and that once the station has a breach, any pressurized oxigen contained in that area will be sucked outside and any fire that could be blazing inside will immediately extiguish due to the lack of comburent for oxidation. The same goes for any explosion or fire that could be created with an impact of a ship on the same station. Burning will not occur in vacuum environment.

watch this guy here put out a petrol fire with a vacuum cleaner that's kind of what would happen to your station fire.

But yes I agree with you and stated before that I think that the station combat would not only be a matter of technical implications and whether the social environment could be put at risk, but also if the owning corporation would allow and not repress such behaviours from docked capsuleers.

Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
I feel like I should say something to help keep the thread going, and support the idea.

But there is nothing left to say. CCP are just going to continue to ignore what people want just like they did pre-incarna. I almost feel that something more radical should happen. Maybe we should publically hang around outside of the new player safe zones and suicide gank their new players in their shiny new cormorants. I imagine doing that for any length of time would hurt sub numbers pretty bad.


I think maybe you guys who're suggesting petitions and stuff are maybe trying to create a storm in a cup of water. I know you're probably as pessimistic as I am but also think we should give them the benefit of doubt and wait to see what they'll deliver in the next 1-2 years.

Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
This goes beyond WiS. It stretches into PvE, hisec content, solo playing and casual friendliness.

Oh my, the evil word... I bet Goons all over EVE are breathing into bags just about now... Blink


lol yeah goons breathing into bags and raging at CCP shooting statues while alt tabbed roleplaying in Second Life and playing LoL with 12 year olds.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#1705 - 2013-09-17 16:20:58 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.

Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.


Sue them.

CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS.

What's left for us...

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#1706 - 2013-09-17 18:29:50 UTC
raven666wings wrote:

I think maybe you guys who're suggesting petitions and stuff are maybe trying to create a storm in a cup of water. I know you're probably as pessimistic as I am but also think we should give them the benefit of doubt and wait to see what they'll deliver in the next 1-2 years.


I won't be waiting 1-2 years. If the next expansion is crap my alts and I are out.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1707 - 2013-09-17 18:37:58 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:

I won't be waiting 1-2 years. If the next expansion is crap my alts and I are out.


I don't blame you. And I think you aren't the only one.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1708 - 2013-09-17 18:41:49 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS.

Sad but true... and I always liked Chris Roberts games and, most likely, will play SC too... just didn't back it.

Nobody asked CCP to stuff money into their console-pew-pew-game and sell themself to Sony... I know, that's not really how it went down, but it kinda feels like it. I was really annoyed when they moved all their focus on DUST in Fanfest 11 and 12, but I thought: Give them time, that's their hot new vision... well, now it is there, and it is yet another game with huge potential and no real content in sight yet... I really hope we start seeing some innovation again soon.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1709 - 2013-09-17 18:58:11 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Now now... that's neither a "botting" nor an "EVE is dying" thread. Blink

I know DMC, but showing support and collecting ideas for the (from what we know) future gameplay that might come to EVE is still a good thing, in my opinion. True, EVE has many problems in the spaceship department, still... but laying a solide groundwork for WiS now would be as good as a time as any... and it would bring new subscriptions, if only from people curious about the new stuff.



A lot of WIS threads with good and bad ideas and the support ,you are speaking of, are made and closed the last couple of years.
This one stays open for some strange reason .So i understand why DMC is talking like that.

R.S.I2014
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1710 - 2013-09-17 19:02:13 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS.

Sad but true... and I always liked Chris Roberts games and, most likely, will play SC too... just didn't back it.

Nobody asked CCP to stuff money into their console-pew-pew-game and sell themself to Sony... I know, that's not really how it went down, but it kinda feels like it. I was really annoyed when they moved all their focus on DUST in Fanfest 11 and 12, but I thought: Give them time, that's their hot new vision... well, now it is there, and it is yet another game with huge potential and no real content in sight yet... I really hope we start seeing some innovation again soon.



How much of the so much needed re balancing stuff ,UI overhaul and new space graphics would be done by now if that Dustcrap did not exist.

R.S.I2014
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#1711 - 2013-09-17 19:13:05 UTC
I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.

Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.

Dock ship
Enter Captains Quarters
Walk to War Room
Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons)
Walk to Strategic room
Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start
Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment

And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.

So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.

It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more.
Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.

Doing things like PS3 exclusive and 3D Occulus support only type of design not only alienates your current paying customers but segregates your gameplay to other niches which takes away from your overall gaming community for your products.

This is not hard CCP, your lack of direction and implementation of creativity seems to be for you. I'm happy with the progress EVE has made, I'm not happy with the missed opportunity with DUST, the avatar shelved projects, and I'm not happy that Valkyrie will turn out to be one awesomely half-ass'edly implemented idea.

This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol

Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.

As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate.
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#1712 - 2013-09-17 19:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:

How much of the so much needed re balancing stuff ,UI overhaul and new space graphics would be done by now if that Dustcrap did not exist.


Sad, cynical and also true.

arcca jeth wrote:
Rant


Amen. Pretty much what I have thought all along.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1713 - 2013-09-17 19:21:15 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.

Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.


If Chris Roberts adds to his avatar content knee boots, low necks and mini skirts, and a chance to show them off, I'm gonna throw 50 euros more his way. Lol

(But then, SC is a boyz game... so far)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1714 - 2013-09-17 19:24:19 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:

I won't be waiting 1-2 years. If the next expansion is crap my alts and I are out.


Pretty much this. I'm not just jumping on the un-sub bandwagon... I genuinely don't care to keep my sub going if the next expansion is as big a pile of crap as Odyssey was. This isn't just about WiS either. Sure, I would really really really like some WiS content but I understand it's difficult to deliver good content of that level... but the last couple of expansions have been seriously lacking and won't put up with another batch of patches that wont affect me.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1715 - 2013-09-17 19:28:06 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS.

Sad but true... and I always liked Chris Roberts games and, most likely, will play SC too... just didn't back it.

Nobody asked CCP to stuff money into their console-pew-pew-game and sell themself to Sony... I know, that's not really how it went down, but it kinda feels like it. I was really annoyed when they moved all their focus on DUST in Fanfest 11 and 12, but I thought: Give them time, that's their hot new vision... well, now it is there, and it is yet another game with huge potential and no real content in sight yet... I really hope we start seeing some innovation again soon.


I've sworn myself to never mix the concepts "DUST 514" and "opportunity cost" -my liver wouldn't stand it. Ugh

My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else.

Specially nothing implying bipedal ambulation.

And specially NOT in EVE.

*ommmmm*

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1716 - 2013-09-17 19:37:20 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else.


Ignorance is bliss right?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1717 - 2013-09-17 19:44:44 UTC
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else.


Ignorance is bliss right?


Sometimes one must just not think of what one shall not think.

FAI, CCP took a 20 million USD loan to launch DUST 514. I just autosuggest myself:

*ommmm*

And it becomes: CCP took a 20 million DUST514orites loan to launch DUST 514.

And, do you see? My heartbeat is steady as a rock.

*ommmm*

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1718 - 2013-09-17 20:41:23 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else.


Ignorance is bliss right?


Sometimes one must just not think of what one shall not think.

FAI, CCP took a 20 million USD loan to launch DUST 514. I just autosuggest myself:

*ommmm*

And it becomes: CCP took a 20 million DUST514orites loan to launch DUST 514.

And, do you see? My heartbeat is steady as a rock.

*ommmm*



CCP Had to loan 20 million?For Dust? oh my.........

Well ,they could ask Chris Roberts and .........

R.S.I2014
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1719 - 2013-09-17 20:52:28 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else.


Ignorance is bliss right?


Sometimes one must just not think of what one shall not think.

FAI, CCP took a 20 million USD loan to launch DUST 514. I just autosuggest myself:

*ommmm*

And it becomes: CCP took a 20 million DUST514orites loan to launch DUST 514.

And, do you see? My heartbeat is steady as a rock.

*ommmm*



CCP Had to loan 20 million?For Dust? oh my.........

Well ,they could ask Chris Roberts and .........


The loan was for the launch & release campaign, actually. Development cost is an unknown amount of DUST514orites.

But then, what else could they have...? Err... excuse me...

*ommmm*

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1720 - 2013-09-17 20:56:30 UTC
I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf