EVE General Discussion

"massive number"
Hard data required. Proof.

Again, equating WiS to "furries and alts" is silly.

Avatar-related content can be as complex and PvP-oriented as EvE currently is.

Your arguments are lacking, your opinion is biased.

How can you consider subscriptions as "the only feedback that matters" when talking about features in proposal?

Proposal.

Features that are yet to be implemented.

Features that have not been added.

So, have you read those patch notes and checked out how long did the Incarna development cycle last?
Also, the proof?

The irony of the latest attempt to derail this thread is that the Goons have a large and remarkable presence on Second LIfe, whose highly customizable environment has allowed them to engage in all kinds of shenanigans, some of which make it into the gaming press. SL is pretty much a Goon paradise... well, at least for those Goons with a tablespoon of coding skill. Try as you might, you can't make huge pink phalluses rain from the sky on someone else's event in EVE.

It may never occur to the nay sayers that some of the people who cancelled their accounts in the wake of Incarna were people who wanted Incarna, ate up all the cool demos and devoured all the news about station interiors, and then ragequit when all they got was a buggy and unoptimized Minmatar CQ. If you overpromise and underdeliver, your customers get mad. Duh.

I know, reading only what you want to read is a big thing on forums, but please try anyways... Incarna was not WiS, it was demo CQs and a cash shop, and that's what turned people off.

If you furries and space barbie enthusiasts really want to know the future of WiS you should ask your local CSM rep the status of Team Avatar...

You should really find out the official status of Team Avatar.

You mean: CCP's marketing department slapped "Incarna" on that infamous expansion and tried to convince everyone that this was the WiS we had been waiting for ...

That reminds me of Tyrannis and what PI (planetary interaction) was at release. Remember ? That was before POCOs could be shot at.

Now Incarna had more to offer than just disappointingly little content compared to Tyrannis.

We also got a cash shop right at the time where many MMOs turned F2P. Pricing in the NEX store was anything but "micro"-transactions. Players also had reasonable fear that other items than clothing might be introduced in the cash shop ... after all the NEX store itself was rather a surprise.

... but let's not dwell on past mistakes.

I hope that EVE:Valkyrie gets a good start, that ship balancing goes through smoothly, then some more 0.0 and POS fixes ... and then hopefully Incarna.

To summarize for any new reader (yikes).

Incarna expansion was a mixed bag of disasters, which combined:

- a long time was spent recoding old code and writing a new engine for the game (AKA Carbon), a "invisible" but time and developer-consuming endeavour.
- as a consequence of the upgrade and Carbon implementation, very little actual content had been added to the game, with Incarna hitting a record low
- Incarna was supposed to be the arrival of avatar gameplay, a long-time feature which was extremely desired.
- Incarna only delivered a single CQ, the minmatarr one, which was both ugly and faulty
- the CQ also was poorly optimized and had many performance issues
- the CQ included zero gameplay (still doesn't haves any gameplay)
- On top of the underdelivery, many old time bugs and issues hadn't been fixed as all dev effort went to coding new stuff rather than fix the older one
- That by the way was a strategy implemented by the CEO of CCP, who believed that new content drawed in more customers than just fixing old one (and he was right, IMO)
- As if wasn't enough, Incarna implemented a micro-transaction model which was intended to sustain avatar development. But the price tag was awfully high, with items reaching as much as 80 USD, and the whole system was implemented in a complex conversion system using a new currrency, all without previous warning
- As the player's anger erupted, a sensible internal document was leaked and led many players to believe that CCP was OK in principle with adding a "pay to win" scenario on top of the "pay to play".
- further, CCP was facing financial stress as it had to repay a loan by october 2011, and Incarna just made a severe hit on their subscriptions. The amount of the damage is unknown, but has been estimed in 10% of cancellations
- after the disaster, CCP undertook a restructuration process and laid off about 20% of its staff (probably to please the loaners and restructurate the loan). Most of the fired people worked on non-EVE project, but also included a lot of avatar-related developers in the Reykjavik office
- the first expansion after Incarna, Crucible, was a mixed bag of eveything the developers could release in a few months, including a gazilion fixes, some new features, and essentialy everything CCP could offer to save its life. It succeeded.

And still people think it was only WIS that caused the massive rage back then.
And be content with yet another out of EvE game and complaing that WIS will draw focus away from EvE

The patch notes, read them.
All of your words are meaningless, given that you continue to ignore the fact that "real EvE gameplay" was not ignored for two years.

Incarna was not WiS.
It was a gameplay-less Minmatar CQ, a new currency and microtransactions.

CCP promised, people liked it and waited for it.
Then CCP delivered a poorly made "room with a couch", as you call it, surrounded by vanity items and pay-to-win future plans.
People got mad and ragequit.

This thread is about future WiS development, not Incarna feedback, which is why I'm talking about features in proposal.
Further WiS development is a feature in proposal.
Given that it is a feature in proposal, your "subscriptions are the only meaningful feedback" rule can not be applied.

Get your logic straight.

PS: Read the patch notes.