Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That is true.
Also webs are limited to 10km (t-2) so i don't see this bonus as overpowered.
It was fine how many years now ?

It is, i can one shot destroyers with t-1 cruise missiles ( all level 5 skills including paining skills and marauders skills + missile skills).
And painter is not limited to 10km, but with falloff you get like 90km.

I also think that this change for marauders is wrong one.
Removing web bonuses is making these ships useless.
Web bonus is here so i can apply more damage to cruisers and battlecruisers, lasers on paladin don't have the tracking of kronos ( blasters track very good + you get bonus from the kronos ship itself + web bonus).

You also have to know that kronos and paladin are limited to damage types ( em/thermal // kinetic/themal ) so killing an angel frigate is not so easy with em lasers.

It's interesting that you mention this Cade, because on approx. page 40 of this thread, CCP Ytterbium specifically said that the web bonus "did not significantly increase your chance to hit frigates", which hardly sounds like he thinks it's OP.

I thought one of the dev's comments about using drones on frigs was funny. Who uses drones on frigs anymore? XD As soon as you launch them these days, it seems one or two are already dead...

I am terribly sorry for posting this insignificant thing in this thread full of insightful analysis and all, but I really wanted to rant about how Amarr ship is getting effectively one less bonus (pretty much static 25% cap bonus from ship prerequisites). I hope that there will be uses to Paladin's mighty (compared to other marauders, 30% more than closest pursuer, plus slightly faster recharge) capacitor that can justify this design (as long as any benefits from that aren't eaten by lasers).

Your argument here seems a touch disjointed.

For a start a Megathron may have been able to go faster back then, most things could and I'd be rather surprised if 1200m/s was the upper limit of speed on even an armor tanked mega with the right combo of effects. However comparing the post-nerf Megathron right now to other battleships it performs quite well.

A quick comparison of the Megathron hulls to Raven, Apocalypse, and Tempest hulls shows the Megathron based hulls with the lowest inertia modifier of any of them, beating out all three of the Minmattar ships. In velocity the Megahthron Navy Issue ties with the Tempest Fleet Issue and Vargur at 130m/s, followed by the Tempest at 127 m/s, then the Vindicator at 126, the Navy Raven at 123 and the Megathron at 122.

This is a very powerful combination of speed and agility and puts blaster boats in a very good position compared to where they were before these changes and, I would argue, even before the pre-nano nerf days.

Now, the bit where I kind of completely lose you is where you assert that it actually used to be *harder* to hold someone with webs back when you couldn't turn off their MWD and you sort of lose me when you say this justifies 90% webs when it is functionally impossible to escape them since the person webbing you can turn off your MWD or web you down to the point where you can't feasibly get away from them with an Afterburner with only a single module and a short-point.

If anything this would make them even stronger now than they used to be and this is born out by the popularity of hulls with these bonuses over comparable hulls without even when those other hulls have significant advantages and lack the drawbacks of the hull with the web bonus.

Throw the mechanics of "Dread-blapping" into the mix and you have a very solid case for removing these bonuses and replacing them with something else.

You make a decent argument with your frigate example, however this can be countered by two points. One, with a Federation Navy web the frigate can be grabbed on approach out at 14 km, which means it will be going ~100m/s by the time it hits 10km. Two, any of these ships can easily fit a second web which means that, for example in the case of a Vindicator with Neutron Blasters loaded with Void (horrible tracking) the Vindi is still able to apply a solid 1000 DPS aat 3000 meters without factoring in drones or that the Vindicator, even without a propulsion module, is now faster than the frigate with only one web on it. At two webs you're basically shooting at a small cargo container with guns on it.

As for your completely erroneous statement about 90% webs and Large Blasters, only two blaster ships have been able to fit them for the last 5 years. One is the undisputed DPS king of sub-caps and the other is a ship that, according to its other stats, should have zero PvP relevance at all and probably wouldn't if it didn't also have a 90% web bonus.

Plus both of these ships can still fit two webs without their bonus and get roughly the same effect as a single 90% web but for a more reasonable trade-off and without the hilariously broken situation of 2 90% webs on the same ship.

Don't get me wrong, I love when 90% webs are on my side, but I really fail to see a justification for their continued existence in the game when they are so ridiculously powerful.

Funny, time and time again I read posts from amarr pilots that complain about amarr battleship cap issues and not being able to fire all their guns without running dry on cap (I can only imagine how this feels as I am using a golem most of the time) and now you get one ship that can do exactly that and what do I read again... complaints. -..-