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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#1061 - 2013-07-08 16:18:44 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Vague ideas of owning shops and meeting places and mini-games and dress-up dolls is not a feature.


Were you a hardcore raider in EQII or WoW? Because they hate the RPG in MMORPGs.

EvE's a MMORPG, just like WoW. Bling is what RPG players like.

The odd ones are those who forget to check such details out before playing.

DUST is that way if you don't care about bling. --->


You missed my point, and whether I raided in EQII or WoW (didn't) has no bearing on EVE.

I don't begrudge role players their trinkets and costumes and paintjobs. Heck, I'd like some custom paint for my ships, and wouldn't mind a better wardrobe selection. I played D&D growing up just like every other self-respecting geek.

What I'm saying is there isn't any plan other than vague ideas and wishful thinking. There's never been any roadmap to follow, no list of features to look forward to, nothing. All they gave us were some pretty tech demos, a lot of talk about ideas, and people ran with their own imaginations. Computer games don't run on imagination. Someone has to program in all the things.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1062 - 2013-07-08 16:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
War Kitten wrote:
Computer games don't run on imagination. Someone has to program in all the things.


As a professional programmer, I disagree. Programs really are the product of our imagination. Programming is like starting with next to nothing and then making whatever you want or dream of with that nothing. I know it requires a lot of hard work, and the bigger the code for a client gets the more work it requires to add or expand on it. But at the heart of it, it all runs on equal parts imagination and determination.

This thread is a clear goal or aim of WiS. Start where we know everyone will enjoy it and move on from there. Eve never had any big goals when it started. They just created a sandbox and watched what happens. Don't know about you, but the sandbox is a little crammed and all the best castles have already been made. I'd like a little more.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Kordus Aelar
Doomheim
#1063 - 2013-07-08 17:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kordus Aelar
what people are missing, when it comes to the RP discussion is this:

You are all RPers. In THIS game.

EVE is quite frankly the Ultimate RP MMO. even people who despise "RP", are, through the course of their gameplay, RPing. and U Ain't Even Know It.

no, I'm not talking about the pseudo-RP in other MMOs, sitting around in a Tavern typing /emotes all day. I mean moving, fighting, earning, living, in a living, breathing world where your actions have meaningful impact.

pretty much everyone, from denizens of the Intergalactic Summit forum, to the random hi-sec miner, to the most vicious, ruthless pirate, to even the staunchest anti-carebear Nullsec PVPer, is really playing a Role, in *this* game. The way the game is designed, and particularly the Politics of Corps and Alliances make it so.

that is one of the things, to me, that makes EVE so brilliant. and thats why I keep coming back to it, time and time again.
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#1064 - 2013-07-08 17:09:23 UTC
Kordus Aelar wrote:
what people are missing, when it comes to the RP discussion is this:

You are all RPers. In THIS game.

EVE is quite frankly the Ultimate RP MMO. even people who despise "RP", are, through the course of their gameplay, RPing. and U Ain't Even Know It.

no, I'm not talking about the pseudo-RP in other MMOs, sitting around in a Tavern typing /emotes all day. I mean moving, fighting, earning, living, in a living, breathing world where your actions have meaningful impact.

pretty much everyone, from denizens of the Intergalactic Summit forum, to the random hi-sec miner, to the most vicious, ruthless pirate, to even the staunchest anti-carebear Nullsec PVPer, is really playing a Role, in *this* game. The way the game is designed, and particularly the Politics of Corps and Alliances make it so.

that is one of the things, to me, that makes EVE so brilliant. and thats why I keep coming back to it, time and time again.


Hey, at least ONE PERSON sharing my views on it!!! :)

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x

PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#1065 - 2013-07-08 18:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
You know I was thinking. A lot of environmental assets are being build for dust (including interiors), and I wonder what the potential is to use these in EVE.


3D modeling is the easiest part of adding assets, what takes a lot of time is texturing/lighting/animation/SFX, and that work is platform-specific. So you can import a 3D geometry form DUST and that's only 20% of the job, you still must do 80% of the job to add it to EVE so all in all you aren't saving much time by reusing 3D assets from another game.


Uh. No.

I do this for a living. Everything but lighting is a pretty seamless and painless import on virtually all asset pipelines. In fact, that's exactly why you've seen this boom in middleware with engines like unity, epic's unreal engine going indie friendly, etc.

Textures are literally bitmaps. Shaders are written once for an engine and reused endlessly by filling those texture channels. Sound effects are the most copy/paste friendly assets in the whole of game development.

Animation is done on a handful of applications that have standardized file types which are then used by specialized importers on a per-platform basis. If you've animated a space dude running once, there is very little to keep you from using that same dataset on a mac, and a PC, and a console, and an iphone.

In fact, its EXTREMELY rare in this day and age that separate staff handles modelling and texturing at all. Most studios require a modeller to also be a competant texture artist, most of the time including generation and retop from high to low res models and getting all of the diffuse/spec/normal/whatever exotic stuff your angine uses finished before it ships to the animation and rigging guys, and in most cases large studios tend to only pick up people that can do all three for character assets, and at the very least modelling/texturing skillsets for environments.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but it is absolutely false. You actually can just use assets from DUST and skip 80% of the work if those assets are artistically appropriate in their new context In the case of Space hulks vesus planet battles, the judgement may very well be that they are not.
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#1066 - 2013-07-08 18:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
I keep double posting because the quote and edit buttons are so close to each other, lol
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1067 - 2013-07-09 05:15:18 UTC
You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?

I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1068 - 2013-07-09 06:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Flamespar wrote:
You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?

I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet.


That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died?

Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#1069 - 2013-07-09 07:23:22 UTC
Necro alert. IB4L.

This is the oldest thread ever. Roll

Open door or no more talkie talkie.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1070 - 2013-07-09 13:40:06 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?

I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet.


That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died?

Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people...


Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously.

Also, capsuleers don't need crews.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1071 - 2013-07-09 15:24:50 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?

I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet.


That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died?

Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people...


Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously.

Also, capsuleers don't need crews.

Actually, we do, and by lore there is a crew in all ships bigger than a shuttle.

When the wreck diving feature was under consideration there were three options for who went in: A crew member (being directed by you), a soft clone of you, or yourself. Only in the last option would you be unable to fight your ship if you got attacked.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1072 - 2013-07-09 15:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Vincent Athena wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?

I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet.


That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died?

Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people...


Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously.

Also, capsuleers don't need crews.

Actually, we do, and by lore there is a crew in all ships bigger than a shuttle.

When the wreck diving feature was under consideration there were three options for who went in: A crew member (being directed by you), a soft clone of you, or yourself. Only in the last option would you be unable to fight your ship if you got attacked.


Sources for all the above? The wiki is contradictory about whether crews are required for a capsuleer. There is a minimum crew page that states minimum crew members for capsuleer ships. However, the lore and fiction are full of examples of capsuleers flying without crew. From the Eve wiki;

"pod pilot heroes flying on the side of the Caldari during the twilight years of the Gallente-Caldari War, executing manoeuvres unthinkable to those encumbered with a crew complement and the bothersome necessity of using vocal commands and hand-eye coordination to steer their vessels."

In Templar One, our Gallente Hero flies the Mordus dreadnought, which he sacrifices to save others because it has no crew to speak of. During The Empyrean age, a number of capsuleers travel back and forth, completely alone (ie, without crew), in frigates and stealth bombers, to the drone hive that houses the antidote to the broker's affliction.

As for the wreck diving prototypers considering anything other than capsuleers going in person... Well, I can't see any evidence of that. It would destroy any element of risk. Risk is good for gameplay in Eve. The whole game is ultimately designed on that premise.

"players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment."

"Right now we’re thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits."

"Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within."


Looks to me like you have to go in person. Remote access is not available.

Edit: Also "Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope."

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Trading InJita
Krab Control
#1073 - 2013-07-09 16:36:12 UTC
The only gameplay involving an avatar that I want is with a titan. Stop trying to turn my game about internet spaceships into ******* hello kitty online.
RAP ACTION HERO
#1074 - 2013-07-09 16:49:46 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?

I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet.


That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died?

Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people...


Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously.

Also, capsuleers don't need crews.

Actually, we do, and by lore there is a crew in all ships bigger than a shuttle.

When the wreck diving feature was under consideration there were three options for who went in: A crew member (being directed by you), a soft clone of you, or yourself. Only in the last option would you be unable to fight your ship if you got attacked.

oh please don't impose anything remotely risky, i just want to emote with a bunch of dudes

vitoc erryday

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1075 - 2013-07-09 16:55:56 UTC
Crew in ships:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

What enters the exploration site:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956

"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones."

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#1076 - 2013-07-09 16:59:12 UTC
Trading InJita wrote:
The only gameplay involving an avatar that I want is with a titan. Stop trying to turn my game about internet spaceships into ******* hello kitty online.


Judging by your name you never get out of station anyway... So why bother about spaceships?

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x

Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#1077 - 2013-07-09 17:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
Vincent Athena wrote:
Crew in ships:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

What enters the exploration site:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956

"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones."


I'd not send myself or a clone... It wouldn't make any sense. I'm a capsuleer, not a freaking space station ninja.
That is where I think many thoughts go wrong. If I check my skill list, I don't see a single skill in there that makes me some kind of super-fighting machine in close combat. I pilot ships. DUSTies kill people up close and personal, but I'm not a DUSTy.

Also, if enemies are on that station, it doesn't even account for the fact that a battleship could send in a hundred while a frigate could send in much fewer crew to fight for the site.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1078 - 2013-07-09 17:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
The only reasons I can see for having pod pilots go in is the environment in there is complex and dangerous. The mind of a pod pilot is required to deal with the complexity, and the ability to clone is needed to deal with the danger.

But I can see the lore modified as needed for all the options the Devs gave. What would we want in the way of game play and in terms of actions have consequences?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#1079 - 2013-07-09 17:14:00 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The only reasons I can see for having pod pilots go in is the environment in there is complex and dangerous. The mind of a pod pilot is required to deal with the complexity, and the ability to clone is needed to deal with the danger.

But I can see the lore modified as needed for all the options the Devs gave. What would we want in the way of game play and in terms of actions have consequences?


Then obviously the development should rather be one that allows us to carry DUSTies on board our ships.
A good reason to hire some of them into the corp then, because atm I don't see any reason for it.

They are dangerous, they like to fight man-to-man, they have clones... Why make a capsuleer something he clearly is not?

Meanwhile, give us some social zones! ;) There is nothing more meaningful than my virtual beer when I hit a station! Lol

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1080 - 2013-07-09 17:36:21 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

What enters the exploration site:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956

"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones."


Well found. I concede.

Except on the crew thing. Official lore is riddled with examples that contradict that one wiki article.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf