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IS boxer Software and it's legality under the EULA

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#261 - 2013-06-09 14:57:46 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
This is a company that lets people post RL web scams/ID theft etc ingame chat
No, they don't.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#262 - 2013-06-09 15:00:08 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
If you would like an official answer on a particular "gray area" situation, please file a petition


someone needs to tell the petition department to not direct questions (with such well documented answers) back to the forums.

lots of buck passing going on in CS these days
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#263 - 2013-06-09 17:56:10 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Xeraphi wrote:
As far as I can tell, with ISBoxer the player still has to be there. Not understanding the hatred, here. I think it's pretty epic to play multiple accounts at once. It must be hard to pvp like that though.


The hatred comes from dealing with them in multiple games and how they ruin the fun of other players.

Does this look hard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfA8b5AIpBE&list=UU8HoHTs_hXwFlpp8PlZqqQA

...says more non relevant stuff


You've never used ISBOXER if you think it's easy. If you're purely using ISBOXER then you'll know PVP'ing is NOT easy.

Characters are RARELY perfectly trained, and if done so then the work you put into making them the same is a HUGE pain.

For example, each char has different rates of fire so ammo runs out at different times, you can't use the overview to target people based on distance because each of your chars are at a different distance etc., if you have implants and 1 of the chars dies then you'll most likely lose your pod also...

It takes learning, developing systems and a lot of trial and error to actually PVP with ISBOXER. Ofc suicide is not that hard to do or the undock Vindi Blap that you can do with multiple chars, but it would be just as easy without ISBOXER and 7 accounts.

ISBOXER excels in 2 areas imo, mining, PVE and in suicide operations.

It's not easy, stop saying it is - WE ISBOXERs haz skillZ YO!

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Phee Phi PhoPhum
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#264 - 2013-06-09 18:29:15 UTC
GM Lelouch wrote:
Hello ya'll, hope you're having a good day.

Let us make an example to illustrate why:

'Hypothetical Software v1.0' is released to the joy of all and is eventually endorsed by CCP as a fine supplement to EVE; the program is officially declared to not be in violation of the EVE EULA/ToS. Some weeks later, the developers of 'Hypothetical Software' releases an update, version 1.1, an update which adds macro mining functionality to the program's existing features. Automating the mining portion of the game is obviously in violation of the EVE EULA so use of 'Hypothetical Software' would suddenly become a EULA violation despite prior endorsement by CCP.


Quite frankly this is a cop-out. As large as the player base is and CCP itself is, CCP should at least look into
developing a team that runs a certification program for 3rd-party apps that are in a bit of a "gray area". It's very
easy to say "CCP has thoroughly tested and hereby certifies Hypothetical Software v1.0 and only v1.0".
Seems a no-brainer to me.

HTH
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#265 - 2013-06-09 18:55:54 UTC
Phee Phi PhoPhum wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:
Hello ya'll, hope you're having a good day.

Let us make an example to illustrate why:

'Hypothetical Software v1.0' is released to the joy of all and is eventually endorsed by CCP as a fine supplement to EVE; the program is officially declared to not be in violation of the EVE EULA/ToS. Some weeks later, the developers of 'Hypothetical Software' releases an update, version 1.1, an update which adds macro mining functionality to the program's existing features. Automating the mining portion of the game is obviously in violation of the EVE EULA so use of 'Hypothetical Software' would suddenly become a EULA violation despite prior endorsement by CCP.


Quite frankly this is a cop-out. As large as the player base is and CCP itself is, CCP should at least look into
developing a team that runs a certification program for 3rd-party apps that are in a bit of a "gray area". It's very
easy to say "CCP has thoroughly tested and hereby certifies Hypothetical Software v1.0 and only v1.0".
Seems a no-brainer to me.

HTH




Really? So what do you do if someone cracks open ISBoxer, inserts the auto-pilot to zero code, and then recompiles (or whatever you do in Inner Space) as ISBoxer? Then you have an "approved" application that is doing EULA/ToS violating things?

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#266 - 2013-06-09 19:14:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
ISBOXER clearly violates the EULA.
Incorrect.


I agree. That parts that everyone seems to concentrate on don't violate the EULA. But it is the parts under the hood you can't see that resulted in CCP Stillman writing this...

CCP Stillman wrote:
Some of the multiboxing software out there is powerful enough to count as “client modification” if used for that purpose


That's an oblique reference to Inner Space and ISBoxer. It could be a violation, or it might not. Unclear.

By the way, is this client modification? Not being snarky; I truly don't know.

Lax (Inner Space/ISBoxer dev) wrote:
ISBoxer 41.2.0522.1 adds virtualization of the new EVE launcher's Cookies file which stores your Usernames, and Inner Space build 5844 corrects a minor bug with virtualizing this particular file. So, you will want to update both ISBoxer and Inner Space. Both of them should offer to patch (or automatically patch, in Inner Space's case) to the necessary versions simply by re-launching ISBoxer and Inner Space.




The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
GreenSeed
#267 - 2013-06-09 19:34:06 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:
Phee Phi PhoPhum wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:
Hello ya'll, hope you're having a good day.

Let us make an example to illustrate why:

'Hypothetical Software v1.0' is released to the joy of all and is eventually endorsed by CCP as a fine supplement to EVE; the program is officially declared to not be in violation of the EVE EULA/ToS. Some weeks later, the developers of 'Hypothetical Software' releases an update, version 1.1, an update which adds macro mining functionality to the program's existing features. Automating the mining portion of the game is obviously in violation of the EVE EULA so use of 'Hypothetical Software' would suddenly become a EULA violation despite prior endorsement by CCP.


Quite frankly this is a cop-out. As large as the player base is and CCP itself is, CCP should at least look into
developing a team that runs a certification program for 3rd-party apps that are in a bit of a "gray area". It's very
easy to say "CCP has thoroughly tested and hereby certifies Hypothetical Software v1.0 and only v1.0".
Seems a no-brainer to me.

HTH




Really? So what do you do if someone cracks open ISBoxer, inserts the auto-pilot to zero code, and then recompiles (or whatever you do in Inner Space) as ISBoxer? Then you have an "approved" application that is doing EULA/ToS violating things?

wtf kinda reasoning is that?

what if someone "cracks" a knife and instead of using it to cut food they use it to kill people?

huh?

i guess we should ban knifes then.

this trend of saying that "isboxer can be modified to do things against the EULA, and this would somehow divide by zero because the application is allowed and it would be doing things against the EULA so CCP would be powerless to stop it" (which, by the way, i already explained is impossible) is childish, because even if someone could modify the application to do it, then it would not be the original application anymore, now would it?

isboxer is not approved by CCP, doesn't need to be, it is the interaction between the application and the client the one that is allowed within the terms of the EULA, if somehow you modify the software to interact with the client, or any software that interacts with it, to do something against the eula then you are banned.

get a clue please.
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#268 - 2013-06-09 21:48:20 UTC
Green Seed wrote:
this trend of saying that "isboxer can be modified to do things against the EULA, and this would somehow divide by zero because the application is allowed and it would be doing things against the EULA so CCP would be powerless to stop it" (which, by the way, i already explained is impossible) is childish, because even if someone could modify the application to do it, then it would not be the original application anymore, now would it?


Shocked

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#269 - 2013-06-10 13:14:34 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
It allows for a level playing field giving smaller groups (and solo players) an ability to compete with larger groups.
Quite on the contrary, the bigger blobs will benefit from it the most.


Xavier Liche wrote:
If you are looking for some kind of values, or morality, you came to the wrong game.
Well then, I guess you will have the game you deserve.

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
DontJumpIn
P0ny R1derZ
#270 - 2013-06-10 13:26:13 UTC
simply put, stop being a whiner and get used to the idea some ppl have more accounts than you , and just because you think ppl are cheating doesnt mean they are. you high sec nooblars are always banging on about botter miners, ive played 10 years and never seen this more than a couple of times, point being there simply isnt enuff ore in high sec to accomodate the numbers miners you speak of.
it would be a s fast to use 2 or 3 accounts to mine the entire system, so i guess i can advise you from my infiite experience.... get busy with your own business and stop posted low level bs on here about botters yawn already, mind your own beewax, you'll be the better and happier for it silly
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#271 - 2013-06-10 13:31:26 UTC
DontJumpIn wrote:
simply put, stop being a whiner...


Not going to happen, bad players are always going whine about how unfair the game is.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#272 - 2013-06-10 14:39:58 UTC
To all the ppl that dont like ISboxer,

pls keep this thread alive.

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#273 - 2013-06-10 15:11:31 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:


ISBoxer is a tool used by players to imitate in game friends, .......................................

.................... Next time you see someone flying 15 Ships at once don't be angry, just think of the sad player sitting there playing with his 14 imaginary friends. :)



LOL ! Well said.


And even worse, his 14 imaginary friends are taking advantage of him by making him pay their game time bills.

.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#274 - 2013-06-11 02:42:26 UTC
Diomedes Calypso wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:


ISBoxer is a tool used by players to imitate in game friends, .......................................

.................... Next time you see someone flying 15 Ships at once don't be angry, just think of the sad player sitting there playing with his 14 imaginary friends. :)



LOL ! Well said.


And even worse, his 14 imaginary friends are taking advantage of him by making him pay their game time bills.


You shoulda stayed in those remedial math classes, the accounts are paid by the losers complaining on this thread.

as an example of what you can do with ISBOXER

http://zkillboard.com/detail/29679201/

or

http://zkillboard.com/detail/29672937/

The above kills are standard suicides, you need to do a quick cost:benefit analysis using a simple table that tells you sec vs dps and on online appraisal tool like evepraisal.com and you're in business.

no more games... it's real this time!!!