These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

First post First post First post
Author
CCP Paradox
#1401 - 2013-05-29 14:32:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
CCP just got to my bug report now.

Also, to launch all your probes in one spot just use the launcher button. It does still work, you know.

No, it doesn't. The probe formation still goes to the sun. The probes may physically be around your ship but as soon as you hit scan they all warp into their formation centered on the sun.


It remembers your last formation when launched through the launcher, but it remembers their positions in the system. The very first time you launch, they will all drop on your ship.

So activating the launcher directly should cause the initial formation to be around my ship, and not place the formation centered around the sun?

I'm not talking about the physical location of the probes, I mean the location of the probe formation as shown in the solar system map.


Yes it will, its a side effect and will only happen once as the formation and position is saved from then on.

To add a point here, having the formation centered on your ship with the changes we have made will make scanning other ships in your 150km vicinity just too easy.

For example, currently with the (old) system, you would have to click the launcher several times to launch all probes. If you were launching 8 probes, this would take 8 seconds. You would then have quickly form and resize the probes, maybe 2 seconds or less to the experienced prober.
After which you would analyze, taking between 4-6 seconds. So far we are at about 14 seconds for the quickest possible time (in theory)

With the new system, if the probes were to launch with the formation centered on your ship, it would take two clicks. Hit pinpoint to launch all 8, maybe reduce scan range and then hit analyze. (Takes about 1-2 seconds). Then you wait for the results at about 4+ seconds. So minimum results to get a hit on a ship in your vicinity is reduced from about 14 seconds, to about 4-6 seconds.

We chose not to go this route with the formations.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#1402 - 2013-05-29 14:42:05 UTC
You think moving the formation on top of yourself is going to make difference?

It adds a few seconds to combat probing and doesn't solve the issue of on-grid probing, but adds tedium to normal use.

Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey?

.

CCP Paradox
#1403 - 2013-05-29 14:51:05 UTC
Roime wrote:
You think moving the formation on top of yourself is going to make difference?

It adds a few seconds to combat probing and doesn't solve the issue of on-grid probing, but adds tedium to normal use.

Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey?


We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.


  • Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)


We're still reading up and discussing other points however.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1404 - 2013-05-29 15:22:27 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Roime wrote:
You think moving the formation on top of yourself is going to make difference?

It adds a few seconds to combat probing and doesn't solve the issue of on-grid probing, but adds tedium to normal use.

Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey?


We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.


  • Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)


We're still reading up and discussing other points however.
Thank you for this change CCP! It's a great start and shows that you guys are willing to make changes even this late in the development.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1405 - 2013-05-29 15:31:19 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Yes it will, its a side effect and will only happen once as the formation and position is saved from then on.

To add a point here, having the formation centered on your ship with the changes we have made will make scanning other ships in your 150km vicinity just too easy.

For example, currently with the (old) system, you would have to click the launcher several times to launch all probes. If you were launching 8 probes, this would take 8 seconds. You would then have quickly form and resize the probes, maybe 2 seconds or less to the experienced prober.
After which you would analyze, taking between 4-6 seconds. So far we are at about 14 seconds for the quickest possible time (in theory)

With the new system, if the probes were to launch with the formation centered on your ship, it would take two clicks. Hit pinpoint to launch all 8, maybe reduce scan range and then hit analyze. (Takes about 1-2 seconds). Then you wait for the results at about 4+ seconds. So minimum results to get a hit on a ship in your vicinity is reduced from about 14 seconds, to about 4-6 seconds.

We chose not to go this route with the formations.
Wouldn't this problem, then, lend more to a solution where you just have to launch probes individually, albeit with the launcher on "auto-repeat"? It seems, then, by doing it the auto-repeat route (vs. having all of them launch at once), you give the cloaked ship some more risk (by having to be decloaked for longer) and give others a chance to catch that prober on dscan, at least? It seems like the shaving the time down by that much is making probing a *bit* OP out the gate, which would be ok if you weren't making some of the other changes, like Ore sites not having to be probed down. At least if you had probe-able Ore sites--even with the mildly-OP scanning--the hapless miner or explorer would have a chance to see the probes on dscan, align and warp off.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1406 - 2013-05-29 15:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
CCP Paradox wrote:
Roime wrote:
Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey?


We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.


  • Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)


We're still reading up and discussing other points however.


Awesome, I love the CCP that acts on feedback. (And when people say you don't, its mostly that they are asking for huge changes that you can't implement this late in the development cycle.)

I am actually very impressed by you iterating on SiSi feedback, this time around.

Also, this particular change makes a lot of sense. Most people still get the convienience, the power user gets the option to leave em behind.
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#1407 - 2013-05-29 17:30:43 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Roime wrote:
You think moving the formation on top of yourself is going to make difference?

It adds a few seconds to combat probing and doesn't solve the issue of on-grid probing, but adds tedium to normal use.

Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey?


We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.


  • Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)


We're still reading up and discussing other points however.


are you saying that if you do not deactivate them then the magical instant recall still happens?

if so can you explain scientifically how the probes appear in your cargo instantly when you jump? given that this is a sci-fi game do you set standards on your developers to keep any new functionality in a 'scientifically feasible' domain? if so i think your QA sprint let one slide here.
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1408 - 2013-05-29 19:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: MisterAl tt1
OK, finaly got to test, as I thought some thinga would become better by this time (well, some did).
erm... Sorry, but having to wait for your probes to come back when attempting to jump through the hole is a fail. As a scanner I sometimes have to RUN with no time to wait for probes to return. If forced to wait - well, "killed by my own probes", lol.

Add: plz someone, if that time is set to some pre-arranged 3 sec waiting, or there is no waiting at all and the first time was just SiSi lag?
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1409 - 2013-05-29 19:20:45 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
OK, finaly got to test, as I thought some thinga would become better by this time (well, some did).
erm... Sorry, but having to wait for your probes to come back when attempting to jump through the hole is a fail. As a scanner I sometimes have to RUN with no time to wait for probes to return. If forced to wait - well, "killed by my own probes", lol.

Add: plz someone, if that time is set to some pre-arranged 3 sec waiting, or there is no waiting at all and the first time was just SiSi lag?
If you have to RUN, then you can just leave the probes behind. Waiting for the probes to return is realistic. The "fail" was the magic and instantaneous return of the probes from some distant point in space to your ship.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Anita1
Meinungsfreiheit
#1410 - 2013-05-29 19:22:18 UTC
i see you guys still didnt understand that scanning is used for alot more things than your exploration thing, we do want to launch probes at the place our ship is, why do you guys tell us we arent allowed to do like we do, how about not making scanning that easy for ppl without skills and let us do our stuff instead

you guys ****** up a working system with alot of useless, worthless changes no one needed

whatever, i hope its just a bug, but if i ignore results the stay in your list and still shown on your overview, there is a reason we ignore signatures, we dont want to see them anymore, cause we either done with scanning that one or we arent interested in it and want to make the list shorter, especially with your new changes where ever single line in the results needs way more space now than before

really ccp its time to talk to your players and stop doing stuff which is annoying and useless
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1411 - 2013-05-29 20:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Actually right now on sisi the current implementation seems to be that if you activate the launcher (not the formations) it launches 8 probes directly at your ship's location without any formations whatsoever.

That's totally fair, imo.

In other news, if you do this and immediately press return it seems the probes won't actually return to the ship. They'll just say "warping" and then "returning" and they'll get stuck there. They do however magically end up in cargo if you jump or dock.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Anita1
Meinungsfreiheit
#1412 - 2013-05-29 21:28:45 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Actually right now on sisi the current implementation seems to be that if you activate the launcher (not the formations) it launches 8 probes directly at your ship's location without any formations whatsoever.

That's totally fair, imo.

In other news, if you do this and immediately press return it seems the probes won't actually return to the ship. They'll just say "warping" and then "returning" and they'll get stuck there. They do however magically end up in cargo if you jump or dock.



it only shows your probes near your ship, but as soon as you hit scan they are at the sun, read ccp post about how it would be too easy
Silvonus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1413 - 2013-05-29 22:05:20 UTC
Tried scanning again, and I'm impressed with how it looks and works now (from a week ago). Thank you for implementing and fixing a lot of the little things (sortable columns, copy-paste, timer, etc.). I also especially like that when you go into the f10 map, it shows you the "red bubbles" for the approximate position of signatures. My only wish at this point would be for the game to remember the "best" scan for all signatures, even if they are not in range of the current scan, which I assume would be in the Future Maybes:
Quote:
Scan history – the colored bars in the scan result list give an indication of whether a specific result got better or worse from your last scan. We want to take this further and allow players to essentially ‘go back’ to a previous result.
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#1414 - 2013-05-29 22:13:04 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Roime wrote:
You think moving the formation on top of yourself is going to make difference?

It adds a few seconds to combat probing and doesn't solve the issue of on-grid probing, but adds tedium to normal use.

Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey?


We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.


  • Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)


We're still reading up and discussing other points however.


Nice! Good move, this keeps many tactics in game.

However, I still think that a HUGE part of EVE's flavour is the ability to make stupid and costly mistakes, and that the current pop-up warning about forgotten probes is better than auto-recall.

.

Everlast Darkheart
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1415 - 2013-05-29 23:41:48 UTC
Probably already been touched on but... If I ignore a anom/sig in the scanning list it would be neat if it wasnt displayed on the sensor overlay.

Maratega
Universal-Harmonizing Power Core
#1416 - 2013-05-29 23:47:23 UTC

-When you bookmarking a site, the bookmark name need to beginning default with the Site ID prefix.
-Site ID need to be persistent, after daily downtime ( dont generate new IDs to the same sites )

Jist little things, but would be very cool!

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#1417 - 2013-05-29 23:55:54 UTC
Roime wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Roime wrote:
You think moving the formation on top of yourself is going to make difference?

It adds a few seconds to combat probing and doesn't solve the issue of on-grid probing, but adds tedium to normal use.

Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey?


We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.


  • Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)


We're still reading up and discussing other points however.


Nice! Good move, this keeps many tactics in game.

However, I still think that a HUGE part of EVE's flavour is the ability to make stupid and costly mistakes, and that the current pop-up warning about forgotten probes is better than auto-recall.

this. to avoid repeating myself: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3105359

I should buy an Ishtar.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1418 - 2013-05-30 03:15:14 UTC
Anita1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Actually right now on sisi the current implementation seems to be that if you activate the launcher (not the formations) it launches 8 probes directly at your ship's location without any formations whatsoever.

That's totally fair, imo.

In other news, if you do this and immediately press return it seems the probes won't actually return to the ship. They'll just say "warping" and then "returning" and they'll get stuck there. They do however magically end up in cargo if you jump or dock.



it only shows your probes near your ship, but as soon as you hit scan they are at the sun, read ccp post about how it would be too easy

I know the difference, and you're wrong. Read what I said again.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Kai Pirinha
#1419 - 2013-05-30 05:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kai Pirinha
I still wonder: what's the point of only being able to launch 8 probes at once?
If I want to probe with merely one probe (for sig strength etc.) it will still be possible:
Launch 8 probes, deactivate 1, recover (active) probes, et voilà, you have your single probe - with much more effort
So since it will technically still be possible to merely use one, where is the point?
Why is it so easy and fast now? Don't you guys feel that it is becoming too easy? Eve has always been a bit exciting because most things aren't so easy. That WoT-point-and-click method will make it very boring very soon in my opinion.
Nowadays dropping the probes at a planet/moon/sun might still get you killed in W-space because it takes about 10-16 seconds to drop probes. So you should get a safe first. After the patch it will be virtually impossible to catch a cloaky prober dropping his probes (decloak, drop probes, warp and cloak - probably doable in less than a second; i know you cannot instantly cloak again, but if you are aligned, decloak and warp after the drop, you are lockable for less than a second). WHY? Are the carebears really crying that hard and loud?
I mean with the new system I could probably even do it in front of an enemy POS just to mock them.

Also what will happen with the sisters expanded/core probe launcher?
One of its boni was that it had a faster "rate of fire" (1,5 seconds instead of 2 seconds compared to the expanded/core probe launcher ii). This bonus will now be useless and it mattered in the past (at least in my humble opinion). Will there be another bonus to compensate (e.g. less deviation)? Or will the 10% scan strength possibly be buffed to 12,5% or maybe even 15%?

Kai Pirinha wrote:
I really appreciate that you added the columns back to the scanner (distance, ID, Scan Group, Group, Type, Signal strength) and that it is once again to sort signatures.

But could you please also add the two options to
  • move the columns around and switch the order (for example I like to see the strength on the left next to the ID and I don't really care about the distance in most cases)
  • to manually scale the size of the column, so that I can for example read the type completely

(The quote is just as a reminder so it isn't overlooked :P)

Hello World

Noztra Ernaga
m o t i o n
#1420 - 2013-05-30 06:24:55 UTC
Do you think it will be possible to scan down a ship (and of what signature radius) outside of D-Scan range with all those new modules? I am affraid it will.