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Dev blog: Hacking in Odyssey

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Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
#161 - 2013-05-14 07:16:39 UTC
Please when you can, confirm if Wormhole sites are changing or we only get the minigame instead of the use of hacking (archeology) tool without further changes. Sleepers are there on the begining and once open we get the same crap as always.
Mario delTorres
Praetore Im Picaro Ama
#162 - 2013-05-14 07:17:34 UTC
what about can's thieves? If i will find relic site in hisec for example. Hack this successful, and small cans appears in space. What when another player find the same site, wait when I hack it. Can he gather My loot? is it criminal activity? or everybody can do this?
CCP Bayesian
#163 - 2013-05-14 07:18:07 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:

But you are forgetting that it has to be FUN and replayable. Emergent content in Eve is fun when it means competing against another human being who is trying to destroy your shiny stuff. Playing a random hacking game against the computer is not fun, particularly the 678879th time you do it. Especially when, if you successfully complete the site, you have to share the rewards with a small gang in order to get anything at all. Which means that the site has to be lucrative enough to be worth a small gang's time.


Yes it does need to be fun and replayable which is why this shouldn't be a one release wonder.

Also you don't have to do this in small gangs.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
CCP Bayesian
#164 - 2013-05-14 07:21:43 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Congrats, CCP. You have completely destroyed hacking/archaeology.

The modules are not even required. Just right-click and select open cargo. Get bacon. One person on the test server hadn't even realized there was a new mini-game because it was not required to open the containers.

Honeypots are totally broken. They will indefinitely buff the defenses without limit, making the game totally and completely impossible to win. They are supposed to be repair modules, not infinite defense buffs. Only allow them to repair up to the original amount of the defense's HP. As they are now, you absolutely must pop them, which makes them into virus power sinks.

The grpahics were so badly bugged as to make the game almost unplayable. Lines and nodes didn't line up. Clicking would sometimes require dozens of attmepts for anything to change. When a defense of some kind would suddenly spawn, I would fall right into it because, OMG CLICKING!

When I was able to get to the core, I found it odd that by spam-clicking, the outer circle of the core would gradually shrink and disappear. Does this signify something? Was somethign supposed to happen? Also, as I got to within one shot of popping the core, the entire game would simply stop responding and nothing more would happen. I could still click on stuff. But nothing would ever change or give me any indication of success or failure. Message? What up? Did I just get back-hacked or something? idgi.

Right, now on to the good stuff. The tools look and work well. I would like to see an offense buff in addition to the HP repair, temp invulnerable shield, and attack tool. This would make a nice balance to the available tools.

I want to conclude by saying that I appreciate CCP's efforts on this. But this new game needs a lot more work. It needs to at least be capable of rewarding success properly, and not be completely optional and broken as it is now. Tie the elements together so that they are working as you want us to experience them. Right now, it doesn't work at all. I can't imagine releasing it as it is now. The forums rage would, however, be spectacular.


Thanks for the feedback, the stuff on sisi right now is pretty broken isn't it !? We should have something more representative up soon.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#165 - 2013-05-14 07:34:52 UTC
So the new hacking and archeology interface/mini-games are exactly the same? Lame. That doesn't even make sense Straight
Sum Olgy
Perkone
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-05-14 07:41:25 UTC
Jing Xin wrote:
Things developers can do with this:

  • Give analyzer and codebreaker scripts that give bonus and drawback to allow players to develop their style of solving these puzzles.



Have you looked at the new modules? Did you notice the additional attributes?

And I don't understand the detractors(and some of them could do with discovering the comma and full stop!). Here is something new, very different and expandable. CCP say this is the start of many things, not just a one off thing. What's not to like? Or is change and evolution a bad thing ?
Kheeria
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2013-05-14 07:52:33 UTC
Clansworth wrote:
I'm intrigued at how CCP comes up with what features need more interaction, and what needs less. Salvaging gets more passive with the addition of salvaging drones, while hacking and archaeology get more interactive with this new mechanic. Mining is as yet, untouched for 10 years now.

Tsk, roid raping got new lasers.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#168 - 2013-05-14 07:53:23 UTC
Can you provide us static data sites on Sisi (and *only* there of course) so we can test this more easily? With the dearth of signatures on Sisi I don't really feel like sweeping 20 systems every time to find one site to test.

Or just provide the new content to w-space sites too, data and relic sites are easy enough to find there... if you happen to have a scanner inside of w-space that is, getting in from k-space is near impossible on Sisi Ugh

Speaking of w-space... can you go into detail exactly in what way the new system will be applied to w-space sites? Removal of all sleepers? Sleepers remain and we get the new hacking? (This would give us the fun of the minigame but also increase overall time needed to complete a site I think). Changed, toned-down sleeper spawns? Or no changes at all?

.
Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-05-14 08:31:01 UTC
I hope, there will be a smartphone version of that game. Looks fun to play while commuting.
CCP Bayesian
#170 - 2013-05-14 08:34:28 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Can you provide us static data sites on Sisi (and *only* there of course) so we can test this more easily? With the dearth of signatures on Sisi I don't really feel like sweeping 20 systems every time to find one site to test.

Or just provide the new content to w-space sites too, data and relic sites are easy enough to find there... if you happen to have a scanner inside of w-space that is, getting in from k-space is near impossible on Sisi Ugh

Speaking of w-space... can you go into detail exactly in what way the new system will be applied to w-space sites? Removal of all sleepers? Sleepers remain and we get the new hacking? (This would give us the fun of the minigame but also increase overall time needed to complete a site I think). Changed, toned-down sleeper spawns? Or no changes at all?


These will be all over the place when this hits Sisi properly, currently just a fraction of sites had them added when the data made it's way onto Sisi. Hence a lot of the problems people have seen.

I'll get someone to come talk about w-space sites but AFAIK they are staying the same but get the updated hacking mechanic.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#171 - 2013-05-14 08:49:38 UTC
I would appreciate a tutorial video on this feature because I spent a day on the test server and I was unable to hack anything, no matter if it was located in hi, low, nullsec or even a WH. And my mouse is already broken, this clickfest is just worst than PI. In real life we already discovered the touch screen and click once to open, but those capsulers in EVE are still bound to mouse clicks and of course the eternal right click on everything.

First of all, there is no info about what you need to do in order to hack these sites. I seriously doubt that a newbie or even the majority of the players will spend hours nor days searching and reading devblogs or tutorials. Second. I dont even know if what's on the test server now is working or not because I dont need any tool fitted on my ship in order to acces any of these relics, I only need to right click (duh) on the relics and the mini game starts. Every dots in the mini game require a lot of clicks and also these dots are too small, why everything in EVE UI have to be so small (like the scroll bar, close button etc)?

I love exploration and cant wait for Odysey to go live, the new scanning system is a blast. But the data and archeology sites with these miin games are nothing than a mindless clickfest. If the actual hack process will not be changed somehow, then I will just land with my covop in the sites and wait for the suckers to get through the click fest and then just steal the loot and collect the tears. And Im sure most of us will do the same.
CCP Bayesian
#172 - 2013-05-14 08:56:54 UTC
Mhax Arthie, Team Superfriends are updating the tutorial and including a section for how to tackle hacking.

However much of your pain comes from using the version on sisi which isn't ready for testing yet, some data had already been put in place for it. That's why there was no official announcement of it being there. We're should be updating it soon though.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2013-05-14 09:17:49 UTC
Is this new feature just for data sites or is it for archaeology sites also?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Jin Rot'hani
Jin-Tonic
#174 - 2013-05-14 09:18:36 UTC
Heyho,

i was and still am really looking forward to all the new exploration stuff but i have some issues with the new hacking mini-game. It requires a ton of repetitive clicks in this version. the last feature that required this amount of clicks was the back then new PI system and even the slightly overhauled one still does.

So why do i mention this as being a problem ? well i got RSI (repetitive strain injury) from it, took me 6 months to no longer hurt and get me back in the game. using the new hacking mini-game brought back the pain after like 5-6 boxes i tried to hack - which is impossible in the current build, but i just wanted to see how the experience could be.

Well i don't expect you to change all your efforts because of one person having an issue with mouse clicks but creating such click intensive stuff is IMO not a good idea in general for such a game if you can easily avoid it.

The only game i play next to EVE is Deus-Ex HR and i wish you could use some of the elements they are using, without just copying it but the ideas with all the trainable upgrades etc. seem pretty much like what you want to achieve except without the need to click like 50 dots to reach the honey pot err data core.

Overall i like all the coming changes but please vastly reduce the amount of clicks needed to finish this hacking stuff or make one for all containers to open at once instead one for each container please, thanks a lot.
CCP Bayesian
#175 - 2013-05-14 09:31:35 UTC
Jin Rot'hani, there's a bug in the current version on sisi that means it takes way more clicks than normal to open anything. You should just have to click once to take any action.

Rek Seven, this is for both. As per the devblog they will be distinguished both graphically and aurally from one another.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#176 - 2013-05-14 09:33:54 UTC
Will you fix the drone UI next?

.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2013-05-14 09:51:15 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:


Rek Seven, this is for both. As per the devblog they will be distinguished both graphically and aurally from one another.


Hmm that pretty disappointing. I can't imagine it would be too difficult to come up with another simple mini-game for archaeology.

Hacking should be based on working your way through a system - as you are doing with the new mechanic.

Analyzing should be based on spotting patterns - There are plenty of games with this type of mini game if you need inspiration.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#178 - 2013-05-14 10:13:17 UTC
Jin Rot'hani wrote:
...
So why do i mention this as being a problem ? well i got RSI (repetitive strain injury) from it, took me 6 months to no longer hurt and get me back in the game. using the new hacking mini-game brought back the pain after like 5-6 boxes i tried to hack - which is impossible in the current build, but i just wanted to see how the experience could be....

I feel you. I had and still have the same issue as I work on computers all day long and evey hour I need to take a 10 min break to ease the pain on my right hand. So yeah, EVE is a big problem for us because there's just way to much clicks no matter what you do in the game. Personally I would love to see the mouse become obsolete and every application/game start being based on touch screen technology or on movements sensors like the Oculus Rift.

Thanks CCP Bayesian for the clarification, looking forward to test an updated version of hacking profession. Hopefully will require less clicking :)
CCP Bayesian
#179 - 2013-05-14 11:14:20 UTC
Rek Seven, it's not a lack of inspiration but a lack of resources. I do ultimately agree that it would be nice to have different and thematically appropriate ways of 'doing' archaeology.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Kor'el Izia
#180 - 2013-05-14 11:17:53 UTC
Nice devblog +1 for more immersion. Regarding gameplay, set the timer on the cargo in space to regular jetcan timer(1-2h). You can still scatter them if you like so that having more players is an option but atleast this won't infuriate every would be explorer out there when their loot vanishes.