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Dev blog: Hacking in Odyssey

First post First post
Author
Zurrdok
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-05-13 20:29:44 UTC
+1 To make cans stay in space after ejection.
Obsidian Dagger
Nitrus Nine
#122 - 2013-05-13 20:30:46 UTC
I would have liked to have seen an actual 'hacking' minigame. IE: You need to get scripts (from the marketplace, or write it yourself in EvECode or something), which you run against the hackable object in a command line environment. Does anyone remember the terrible Matrix game, where you could hack cheats for yourself with the ingame console?

Like that.

Only with spaceships.

It could also be applied to NPC's (hack yourself a rogue drone army), remote control customs agents, disable the shields on an enemy ship while screaming the name of the enemy Pilot...
Hack into an alliance wallet.
Bypass the f***ing station door.
Adunh Slavy
#123 - 2013-05-13 20:38:45 UTC
How randomized are these little puzzles or are they random at all? It would be a shame if hacking devolved into little more than going to joeblow-evehacking.com and following some instructions.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#124 - 2013-05-13 20:45:16 UTC
This is a great idea. Hacking is the perfect place for a mini-game like this (unlike mining).

I do have one concern, and that is the self destruction of the database if too much time has passed.

Could this be abused? Is it a substantial amount of time? Or could a person choose to go system to system simply despawning sites for some gain elsewhere?

Also, would it be possible to have it kick the user out, instead, adding a chance for other pilots at the same site to get into the system for a chance at cracking it themselves?

Profit favors the prepared

Pihls XIIX
#125 - 2013-05-13 20:54:33 UTC
Hacking this .do look as Neocron hacking.
would like to be able to hack pos, PI, alliance acces and more
like POS system's and with the hacking be able to open that
door in my CQ.Twisted

   Get me WiS 'Walk in Stations' CCP! The majority of the player base has wanted WiS ever since CCP pre viewed Ambulation back in 2006. EvE is not about PvP. EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP! Open the door!!!

CCP Bayesian
#126 - 2013-05-13 21:19:17 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
In the fanfest presentation the idea of purposely failing in order to get an NPC spawn was brought up. You said you would like to discourage that. I suggest:

Every failure there is a chance the side will self destruct. Its a small chance the first time, but big enough to discourage failing on purpose. Each failure after the first time increases the chance of the site self destructing. Sufficient failures and the site will always explode.


There are limited attempts as per the devblog. If it needs to be made more complex this sort of thing is perhaps something we'll look at.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-05-13 21:24:22 UTC
Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.

The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.

Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.

They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.

Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.

I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

CCP Bayesian
#128 - 2013-05-13 21:28:05 UTC
Obsidian Dagger wrote:
I would have liked to have seen an actual 'hacking' minigame. IE: You need to get scripts (from the marketplace, or write it yourself in EvECode or something), which you run against the hackable object in a command line environment. Does anyone remember the terrible Matrix game, where you could hack cheats for yourself with the ingame console?

Like that.

Only with spaceships.

It could also be applied to NPC's (hack yourself a rogue drone army), remote control customs agents, disable the shields on an enemy ship while screaming the name of the enemy Pilot...
Hack into an alliance wallet.
Bypass the f***ing station door.


This would be lovely and similar to Notch's 0x10c but a little beyond the scope of things that would have been feasible to implement. If you've ever seen the competitions where you run competiting programs against one another in a virtual machine something like that would be interesting.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

CCP Bayesian
#129 - 2013-05-13 21:29:14 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
How randomized are these little puzzles or are they random at all? It would be a shame if hacking devolved into little more than going to joeblow-evehacking.com and following some instructions.


Everything is procedurally generated so each hacking attempt is different.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

None ofthe Above
#130 - 2013-05-13 21:31:25 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.

The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.

Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.

They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.

Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.

I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE.


The mini-games do seem a bit like mobile or "social" facebook games.

I find them both intriguing and worrisome at the same time. They need to be enjoyable and highly re-playable.

If it's not near infinitely re-playable, it will drive anyone that chooses the exploration career path insane, and they'll have to find another profession. That goes for the loot 'splosion as well as the hacking minigame.

I have a very real concern that the Odyssey "exploration" expansion might actually kill the exploration profession in the long term.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#131 - 2013-05-13 21:36:40 UTC
It's clear that there are some pretty talented game system designers at CCP. I loved the eve CCG, and PI was pretty nifty too, for such a short dev cycle.

I hope to see that hex grid tabletop Incarna game that you were showing off some day too! Man, if you guys need an isk sink, just add a few minigames with PvP wagers and a 1% tax Pirate

Now all we need is a lockpick minigame so that I can open The Door Lol
CCP Bayesian
#132 - 2013-05-13 21:39:42 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.

The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.

Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.

They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.

Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.

I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE.


The mechanics we're putting in allow for more emergence than currently exists. I don't see how we are dumbing down the game by making perhaps the dumbest mechanic in EVE more complex with a mechanic that rewards player skill along with complementary mechanics that require more than one person to get full benefit from. We're also somewhat bound by the legacy of the system in that these sites are created content. Improving that requires much more work. Bottom line is that we are working towards getting more people interacting in space to drive emergent things happening.

Opening up Utilities to the market and later player creation will help as well. Plus the feature itself can be used elsewhere where it can be used by players to achieve their emergent goals.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#133 - 2013-05-13 21:44:48 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.

The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.

Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.

They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.

Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.

I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE.


You are wrong.

Old version: engage module, wait for dice rolls, receive bacon (this is as dumb as it gets)
New version: engage module, solve puzzle, receive bacon or fail (this is much more engaging)



.

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2013-05-13 21:55:49 UTC
I tried it on singularity 2 days ago, and despite some glitches, the concept was pretty interesting, and I had allot of fun.
This new Mini game have allot of potential. I hope that the final product will be well balanced.

I have sugested in some of my old topics in the forum along with a POS REVAMP Idea, that the new pos system should allow that defeeted POSes be vulnerable to hacking and maybe DUST514 assaults. Hope you guys have these big plans!
Adunh Slavy
#135 - 2013-05-13 22:06:21 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:


Everything is procedurally generated so each hacking attempt is different.



Good, thanks for the response

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
#136 - 2013-05-13 22:08:06 UTC
This new hacking game could be interesting. It's certainly better than the old one.

Good thinking on introducing tradeble items.

The only thing I don't like are the exploding, vanishing cans. If you want to make the game more immersive (and I'm all for that!), the result of succesfuly hacking a computer shouldn't be an exploding cargohold. It's just not...immersive, but a thinly veiled attempt to force multi(box)play into a mini profession that was mostly done solo.
What about the loot for relic sites? Is that still going to be salvaged materials? Will it also disappear in the cans while it stays intact inside a wreck for hours? Doesn't feel completely right.

Other than that: good job!
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2013-05-13 22:13:54 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:

This would be lovely and similar to Notch's 0x10c but a little beyond the scope of things that would have been feasible to implement. If you've ever seen the competitions where you run competiting programs against one another in a virtual machine something like that would be interesting.


prototype me something where thousands of eve characters face off in a game of iterated prisoner's dilemma with real game reward results, please~

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Captain Semper
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2013-05-13 22:22:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Semper
At first - CCP great work, i realy like the way you move.

New hacking is cool but it realy easy to hack. You need skill for good virus stats - yeah. But i mean different type of "easy". You dont need brains to finish this minigame. Just press on nodes...each node and continue to the end. If you lucky enough and "roll" was on your side - you succeed.

What you can do to make your game harder for "brains":

Limit time for hacking. Yeah, why not? Simple timer. Timer will scale with hacking skill lvl.
+
More information about what node have. For example you mouseover node and simple tip tell you: "This node with 42% will have nothing, 19% firewall, 30% utility and 9% datacore".
+
More bonus nodes. For example node that will reveal other nodes, or will launch firewall protocol that will like a snake "eat" nodes and etc.

All this will make ppl think twice (and think faster) before open nodes. You will need tactics and strategy for succeed. Not just "luck".
Some sort of tactics: "Hm..will i rush max amount of nodes becuase system have bad links for me or will i try to get bonus nodes for more infromation and utility?'
mufasa73
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-05-13 22:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: mufasa73
Idea

I can see the potential here for implementing this into an interactive mining interface as well. Instead of hacking a computer, though, you could scan for weakness or enriched pockets inside an asteroid, resulting in a higher mining yield, or, complete destruction of the asteroid by mining in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This could, finally, bring interactive mining into the light, resulting in absolute destruction of bot mining.

CoolBear
stoicfaux
#140 - 2013-05-13 22:42:09 UTC
+1 overall. Nice work.

-10000000000000000 for making me consider training archaeology and hacking to V despite not being spec'd properly. (It's actually -1 and -999999999999999 for not offering a free respec last Christmas.)

/note to self: Don't forget to salt the fries.





Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.