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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

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Qaidan Alenko
Eezo-Lution Inc.
#881 - 2012-11-14 06:55:52 UTC
Loki Vice wrote:
Love the changes, and i would LOVE THE HELL out of the dominix if it wasn't a flying space potato =(

Perhaps model it after a woman's stilleto heeled shoe...
Go ahead... Get your Wham on!!!
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#882 - 2012-11-14 11:11:12 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Start at page one.

Take a drink every time some illiterate asks what is going to happen to their battlecruisers skill.

Take a shot every time Fozzie repeats himself with regard to how the skill changeover is going to work.


I'm drunk cause of a dev...
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#883 - 2012-11-14 11:28:06 UTC
Nemesis Bosseret wrote:


much ranting....



I actually read through it and must say, that I'm partially agreeing. It's awesome to expect changes to the most common boosting ships. I personally feel like the bossting modules will receive a slight revamp, cause I can't see how anyone would ever field a multilink booster on grid given that even a damnation now needs command processors.

To the prophecy: wtf droneboat you crazy? actually, I love the idea of a neutprophecy. With resistboni yumyum. Poor man's ashimmu.

Also regarding the progression from Battlecruisers to Battleships, as it is going from mediums sized to large hulls, are there any changes to the cargo space considered? Atm Battleships run out of booster charges way quicker than battlecruisers do, just because they consume them three times as fast while only having around 20-30% more cargo capacity. Also, large ammunition takes up good chunks of space.

Please don't change the mass for each ship in a way that a battlecruiser with a 1600 plate is above 20kt, please keep this in mind for armorcanes/harbingers/prophecys/absolutions/damnations and c1-wormholes.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#884 - 2012-11-14 11:30:25 UTC
I like the cmd ship and tech 3 changes. Pritty please with super sweet molasses on top can you give them both the damn cpu to actually fit t2 links without 500 Estamels co-procs? If your making the field cmd ships into combat vessels, does this mean they'll lose a lot of tank? or just have less dps than what are now the fleet cmd ships? Cause the former would suck.

Perhaps changing tech 3's warefare sub to the electronics slot would be a good idea, since your going to make them come on grid, they certainly can't compete with having their defensive sub nerfed to fit links as they are now. However then you lose the probing versatility which is so nice.

Personally don't think tier 3 bc's mobility needs nerfing, they should be as fast as a cruiser, because they have the same tank. Megathron is PERFECT atm, just leave it alone thanks.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#885 - 2012-11-14 11:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Akturous wrote:
I like the cmd ship and tech 3 changes. Pritty please with super sweet molasses on top can you give them both the damn cpu to actually fit t2 links without 500 Estamels co-procs? If your making the field cmd ships into combat vessels, does this mean they'll lose a lot of tank? or just have less dps than what are now the fleet cmd ships? Cause the former would suck.


You got field and fleet command mixed there.

Currently
Field: more damage, less tank, no bonus to warfare links
Fleet: less damage, more tank, bonus to warfare links

What I understand is that they are removing this and making both ships viable for both roles:
- If you choose to fit for boosts, you will lose on damage output (much like currentl fleet command ships)
- If you choose to fit for damage output, you will be limited on boosting capabilities (much like current field command ships)
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#886 - 2012-11-14 16:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Syri Taneka
The only thing I really want to comment on with this is in regards to the command ships and t3s.

1) Please don't take away our 5% per level bonuses altogether. Things are just a little more awesome with that extra 10% multiplicative-stacking bonus. Some of us spent much time training hard to be Warfare Link Gods. Possibly make CS' 4% or 5% per level bonus? (To further distance them from the versatile t3s.)

2) In regards to t3s, I *highly* approve of making their bonus weaker than CS' (again, some of us dumped a lot of time into getting CS 5 and all the other requisite skills to fly the things!). I'd also like to suggest/request a major skill change to t3 ships, specifically with regards to "specialized" sections, IE Warfare Links, Cloaking, EW, etc. Please consider making a skill requirement for these specific sections be the relevant t2 skill to at least 4, IE CS 4, Recon Ships 4, Recon Ships 4, etc.
Conjaq
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#887 - 2012-11-14 17:39:15 UTC
Quote:
Hyperion: the hull could be improved, but again most of the issues come from passive versus active tanking problems



I would LOVE to know what changes you have going for active tanking vs passive tanking!

info info!
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#888 - 2012-11-14 22:16:01 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Akturous wrote:
I like the cmd ship and tech 3 changes. Pritty please with super sweet molasses on top can you give them both the damn cpu to actually fit t2 links without 500 Estamels co-procs? If your making the field cmd ships into combat vessels, does this mean they'll lose a lot of tank? or just have less dps than what are now the fleet cmd ships? Cause the former would suck.


You got field and fleet command mixed there.

Currently
Field: more damage, less tank, no bonus to warfare links
Fleet: less damage, more tank, bonus to warfare links

What I understand is that they are removing this and making both ships viable for both roles:
- If you choose to fit for boosts, you will lose on damage output (much like currentl fleet command ships)
- If you choose to fit for damage output, you will be limited on boosting capabilities (much like current field command ships)


Yeah my bad, got them mixed up.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Kmcpilot
The Forsakened Few
We Forsakened Few
#889 - 2012-11-15 13:36:22 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
So about mindlinks..

  • The fact that they are such a huge portion of the effectiveness of a booster isn't something we like
  • The fact that people are forced to use multiple jump clones or pop a new expensive implant every time they want to switch link types isn't something we like
  • The fact that they make the use of multiple gang link types at once so much worse isn't something we like
  • The exact way to deal with these problems isn't something we have hammered out yet, but we'll keep you updated

And since questions keep coming up I'll clarify some skill stuff again:

Assuming you have the (insert race here) Cruiser skill to 3, the level of (insert race here) Battlecruiser you get after the change will be the same as your Battlecruiser level before the change, not your Cruiser level.

And we don't have a date to give you on the skill changes but here's what I can say:
  • It won't happen in Retribution
  • It won't happen until we release the BC and BS changes
  • We can't commit to exactly when those changes will release yet
  • But I have an internal estimate about when we'll get it done, and that estimate makes me smug out
  • So if you're choosing between training those skills either sooner or later, choose sooner



Fozzie,

Thanks for this clarification...

As do most people, we don't like change... However, that is a fact of life.

With the evolution of Eve in the coming months, is it reasonable to have the expectation with the perceived inconveniences of having to remap, that CCP will provide "Bonus Remaps" in the coming months?

Perception is reality, I know that I've been annoyed at having to remap several toons and burn those changes.

It does take me completely off training plans.

Thanks for your indulgence!

Regards,
Kmcpilot
Nouvelle Rouvenor Hero
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#890 - 2012-11-15 14:07:03 UTC
Aesil Maril wrote:
Since I'm in the process of training for a carrier, I would appreciate an answer with regards to when the new capital skill rebalance (lvl4 BS skill for racial capital ship) is going o take place. With Retribution on 4th of december? In the next summer expansion? At the end of next year? It would be really nice to know also which will be the new prerequisites for racial capital skills, if they've been decided of course.



This would be good to know for anyone training to get into caps but have no intention of actually flying Battleships.

Can we have a rough estimate of when the change so you don't need BS5 will take place or will BS5 skill points be refunded?

Without some guidance, players will be left in limbo... If the change is some way in the future, it might be worth wasting a month of skillpoints on BS5, but if it's not far off then it would make sense to hold at BS4 and train something else...
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#891 - 2012-11-15 14:13:43 UTC
Micro Jump Drive. It's another mistake. Tried on test.
Bubbles and disruptor already has no effects on it. CCP pls dont do it this fail.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#892 - 2012-11-15 14:40:35 UTC
Since frigs, cruisers and likely soon bc's too are getting more deadlier & sturdier i just hope the battleships are getting buffed in the same way to avoid bringing them too close of each other tank&dps wise.

And the battleship line doesn't look too happy news to caldari players, since raven is on the combat category i'm predicting it will be the same long range cruise missile boat...
The race with the most missile boats and they don't have a working hull for one of their missile systems, this should have been addressed long time ago but it's still getting delayed until we get the new battleship line.

With battlecuisers none of the medium long range guns are usable because they are completely outperformed by the tier 3 bc's with large guns. Maybe they should have a tracking penalty or something similar to open at least some usability for the medium long range guns...
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#893 - 2012-11-15 16:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Since frigs, cruisers and likely soon bc's too are getting more deadlier & sturdier i just hope the battleships are getting buffed in the same way to avoid bringing them too close of each other tank&dps wise.

And the battleship line doesn't look too happy news to caldari players, since raven is on the combat category i'm predicting it will be the same long range cruise missile boat...
The race with the most missile boats and they don't have a working hull for one of their missile systems, this should have been addressed long time ago but it's still getting delayed until we get the new battleship line.

With battlecuisers none of the medium long range guns are usable because they are completely outperformed by the tier 3 bc's with large guns. Maybe they should have a tracking penalty or something similar to open at least some usability for the medium long range guns...


I'm hoping the battleships will get a much needed mobility buff the attack battleship should at lest get some mass reduction to improve agility and speed and yes i think they should switch the phoon with raven for attack role to get the same treatment as the caracal is getting.
I'm also dissapointed that there is no mention of the amarr getting a droneboat in battleship line.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#894 - 2012-11-15 17:51:48 UTC
I really hope that they dont go ahead with the BS4 capitals. Even if they put other skills in to increase the training time it means ******* everyone will be flying archon's. Gone are the days where people fly the less OP carriers just because they cba training the BS5. Your effectivly removing nidhoggurs from the field and a lot of wyvren / thanny pilots are gonna switch now just because it will be a short train.
Izi55IzI
Partizanski odred Slovenije
#895 - 2012-11-15 21:02:11 UTC
stop making gallente ships into shield viable crap

i don't care what you do with bc's and smaller crap, but ffs leave the bs alone

and don't make the mt completely useless, leave the ehp
Bandalon Ominus
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#896 - 2012-11-16 00:37:19 UTC
Just want to add that I dont like the tiericide and I think the whole overdedicating shiproles possibly has the effect of dumbing things down.

It's not a shame if some ships hardly get used, that's actually pretty realistic.

Personally I'd love to see more unpredictable outcomes because ships have a larger fitting versatity. The tiericde is really going to make thing more predictable and reduces player freedom.
Maru Sha
The Department of Justice
#897 - 2012-11-16 09:01:20 UTC

Free Skillpoints versus Unallocated Skillpoints



You say

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Dinta Zembo wrote:
So if I have battlecruisers 5 and each racial cruiser at lvl 3, does that mean I'll get every racial battlecruiser skill to 5?
You're saying 'if you can fly it now you'll still be able to fly it', but I'd like to know on what level.


To the same level. So yes in that case you'd get all four skills to level 5.


which in fact means you will get 1,536,000 SPs (destroyers) and 4,608,000 SPs (battlecruisers) for free if you are not dumb enough to not train all racial cruiser to level 3 (and the same for destroyers). That is roughly 95 days of training time at 2,700 SPs per hour (more days if you don't have the implants or attributes at highest level). Well, I guess nobody will complain about a big present like this, but to be honest to me it sounds unbalanced and totally unnecessary.

Remember the time when learning skills and the former social connection skills were removed? The points went into a pool of unallocated skillpoints and, in the case of the connections skills, one could easily just use those unallocated skillpoints and boost the new connection skills of choice. Nobody received free skill points and everybody could allocate the unallocated skill points at places where it suited best. Why not doing the same with the destroyer and battelcruiser skills? Move the points to the unallocated pool, let people decide which of the races they need most e.g. one race to level 5 or several races to level 3 or 4, then let them train for the rest.

I guess you fear that people start complaining if they could fly all battlecruisers on highest level before the patch and then will only be able to do so for either one race or after some dedicated training time for other races, too. But isn't that the point? Force people to make decisions and make them work/train for it?

I personally don't like the handout of millions of free skillpoints, in particualr if it favours some and not the whole player base. Additionally, I'm a purely Minmatar trained pilot, but I'm not sure if I will forgo 6 million free skillpoints ... that is seriously putting my loyalty to the test.


Maybe one of the devs could confirm that it is really your intention to hand out free skillpoints. Thank you.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#898 - 2012-11-16 09:09:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Yeah, this 'free skillpoints' affair just puts new players (who would join after the changes) at serious disadvantage. While the current ones hardly have to make any choice at all, since most either already have these skills at V or getting them now.

If anything, separate skills for racial sensors are much better in this regard - players WILL have to make trade-offs and pick may be one lineup to get it to V while leaving the rest at level IV. It will take quite a while to max out all 4 races. In case of BC and destroyers everyone will get it for free. Meh.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#899 - 2012-11-16 12:02:34 UTC
Maru Sha wrote:
I guess you fear that people start complaining if they could fly all battlecruisers on highest level before the patch and then will only be able to do so for either one race or after some dedicated training time for other races, too. But isn't that the point? Force people to make decisions and make them work/train for it?


Since I can fly Abso and Damnation I would have to put all BC skillpoints to Amarr BC. What the heck I do with my Myrm, Drake, Cyclone and Cane? Sell? I can see your point but idea behind it is flawed.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#900 - 2012-11-16 13:22:41 UTC
So to be clear, will we be getting skill point reimbursements for the destroyers or will we just find the new skills added to our list at the appropriate level?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...