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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

First post First post
Author
Ranzabar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#821 - 2012-11-11 06:11:55 UTC
I'm certain, if you try, you can eat marshmallows on the CCP balcony in the snow.

Abide

Qaidan Alenko
Eezo-Lution Inc.
#822 - 2012-11-11 07:09:38 UTC
Ranzabar wrote:
I'm certain, if you try, you can eat marshmallows on the CCP balcony in the snow.

Only if you don't value your teeth... :oP
Go ahead... Get your Wham on!!!
Undeadenemy
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP
Goonswarm Federation
#823 - 2012-11-11 08:06:15 UTC
@Complainers-Who-Think-They're-Being-'Cheated'-Out-Of-SP

I realize that this will simply be buried under the additional pages of this thread, but let me try to explain it to you:

No one is getting free skills. The racial cruiser/frigate skill is required to INJECT the racial destroyer/battlecruiser skillbooks, it IS NOT required to actually fly the destroyer/battlecruiser. The check for required skills occurs at the time the skill is injected, so if you have not injected battlecruiser/destroyer at the time of the change, you will instead have 8 different skills to inject to be able to fly all of the ships.

No one is getting a free level on any of their skills. The requirement won't apply to people that already have battlecruiser/destroyer because they already have the skill. If you already have Racial Frigate/Cruiser to III, you will receive the Racial Destroyer/Battlecruiser skill pre-trained to the level of Destroyer/Battlecruiser you already had at the time of the patch. You WILL NOT get Racial Cruiser 4 for free if you only had level 3, you will simply not need that skill to fly Racial Battlecruiser because it will already be injected.

Here is the pertinent quote from the Dev Blog:

"With the way nested skill requirements work in EVE, it also means that you will still be able to fly an Apocalypse even if you don’t have the Amarr Battlecruiser skill trained at 4 after the change. It won’t matter as long as you have the Amarr Battleship skill at the proper level."

I don't understand what the problem understanding this is.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#824 - 2012-11-11 09:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Undeadenemy wrote:
No one is getting free skills. The racial cruiser/frigate skill is required to INJECT the racial destroyer/battlecruiser skillbooks, it IS NOT required to actually fly the destroyer/battlecruiser. The check for required skills occurs at the time the skill is injected, so if you have not injected battlecruiser/destroyer at the time of the change, you will instead have 8 different skills to inject to be able to fly all of the ships.


This. I'll add these:
To fly: Racial Cruiser level doesn't matter as long as you have Racial Battlecruiser trained to level 1 or higher
To inject Racial Battlecruiser skill: Racial Cruiser level 4 is required
To train Racial Battlecruiser skill: Racial Cruiser level 4 is required
Ashriban Kador
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#825 - 2012-11-11 14:25:00 UTC
And this is why, way back before Inferno? When these changes where announced, I went and made sure I trained up all racial frigate skills to 4, had Destroyers at 5, trained all racial cruisers to 4 and Battlecruisers to 5.

Anyone complaining about the changes to the skills, or having to train them, I have no sympathy. It has been known for quite some time now, long enough to have trained all those skills from 0!

Your goals may align with some ... and with others, collide with the force of suns.

David Zahavi
Doomheim
#826 - 2012-11-11 18:52:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Are the racial destroyer skills getting put in on Dec. 4th or with the battlecruiser stuff?

When everything is done.


Right caught that part but my question was aimed at the destroyer skills getting split into racial skills and whether or not they are coming with the Dec. 4th patch.


We'll do the destroyer and battlecruiser skills in one batch, after the BC and BS rebalance is done.


Would be awesome if you did them in 2 batches.

Give us a 10ish day warning on Destroyers, then roll it out.

Then give us a month warning on BC, then roll it out.

Then you have no child left behind, and can avoid all the potential tears devs hate to cause their loyal customers.
Riosk
Neo Kyodo
#827 - 2012-11-11 19:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Riosk
When is there any specification change of this BC's skill?
it's early in spring?
Odecules
KynetyK Corp
#828 - 2012-11-11 20:15:11 UTC
*Racial Destroyers and Racial Battlecruisers skill changeup*

To lay it all out:

Do I just need to get the following to get the most out of the change? (If not, what other skills / levels do I need?)

  • All Racial Frigaes to IV
  • Destroyers to V
  • All Racial Cruisers to III
  • Battlecruisers to V


Also, if I get them all by the end of January (which I am sure even those on a bad remap can) will I make the cutoff?



Thanks
YuuKnow
The Scope
#829 - 2012-11-11 21:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
It doesn't make much sense to turn the Typhoon into a missile boat for 2 reasons.

1. Its already mentioned that cruise missles and torps are poor performers at the moment and the Raven is seeing poor days. Why would you make another bship based on a weapon system (cruise missiles) that is a underperformer? Does adding a 2nd bship with the identical poor utilized weapons system (torps and cruise) add anything?

2 The the cross training to make Typhoons work well wouldn't make sense. Players would train gunnery and projectiles all the way up, but at the bship level would then need to switch to a completely different weapon type where all the previous skills are wasted.

How about giving it a support role with a Target Painter or Stasis Web bonus? And a complete 100% hull redesign (throw out the old model completely).

yk
Grath Telkin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#830 - 2012-11-11 22:12:42 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:


1. Its already mentioned that cruise missles and torps are poor performers at the moment and the Raven is seeing poor days. Why would you make another bship based on a weapon system (cruise missiles) that is a underperformer? Does adding a 2nd bship with the identical poor utilized weapons system (torps and cruise) add anything?

So because you don't value a particular weapon system and it may not be perfroming up to spec they should suddenly stop designing ships that use it instead of fixing the system in question and still designing ships that make use of it?


YuuKnow wrote:
2 The the cross training to make Typhoons work well wouldn't make sense. Players would train gunnery and projectiles all the way up, but at the bship level would then need to switch to a completely different weapon type where all the previous skills are wasted.

Here's a shocker: Most minmatar ships are designed around split weapons systems. Nearly all of them have a combination of Gun and Missile hardpoints. If you've trained up to BS sized guns while ignoring all the other missile systems its only your own fault. By the time you can fly a minnie BS you would be well served to have skills in both sets to fully use each and every ship that Minmatar has to offer.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

David Zahavi
Doomheim
#831 - 2012-11-11 22:12:57 UTC
Ashriban Kador wrote:
And this is why, way back before Inferno? When these changes where announced, I went and made sure I trained up all racial frigate skills to 4, had Destroyers at 5, trained all racial cruisers to 4 and Battlecruisers to 5.

Anyone complaining about the changes to the skills, or having to train them, I have no sympathy. It has been known for quite some time now, long enough to have trained all those skills from 0!


I reactivated and started after inferno and that dev blog and only recently became aware of it.

But I still want to get all that I can out of this and not get screwed :)
YuuKnow
The Scope
#832 - 2012-11-11 22:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Grath Telkin wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:


1. Its already mentioned that cruise missles and torps are poor performers at the moment and the Raven is seeing poor days. Why would you make another bship based on a weapon system (cruise missiles) that is a underperformer? Does adding a 2nd bship with the identical poor utilized weapons system (torps and cruise) add anything?

So because you don't value a particular weapon system and it may not be perfroming up to spec they should suddenly stop designing ships that use it instead of fixing the system in question and still designing ships that make use of it?


yep. If the idea is to redesign the ship to that its more useful, but the redesign just makes it just a poorly used then what was the purpose of the redesign?


Quote:
Here's a shocker: Most minmatar ships are designed around split weapons systems. Nearly all of them have a combination of Gun and Missile hardpoints. If you've trained up to BS sized guns while ignoring all the other missile systems its only your own fault. By the time you can fly a minnie BS you would be well served to have skills in both sets to fully use each and every ship that Minmatar has to offer.


The missile part of the 'split weapons system' has always been the bastard child of the two with few minimatar fits using them. Most minmatar ships excel with fittings that *don't* use the missile slots, with missile gimping the fits. The missiles skills for Minmatar pilots are an afterthought and do better without them.

The whole split dps has never lived up to par.

Perhaps CCP would do enough to change the typhoon's missile bonus include explosion velocity and explosion radius bonuses rather than RoF.
The Mabinogion
Doomheim
#833 - 2012-11-11 23:10:52 UTC
Iniquita wrote:
I really wish you would have addressed the lack of ewar platform battleships for the other three races.

Im also still holding out for some black ops bs loving.


Agreed. More ewar at the BS level would be good.

Also really want to see thoughts on BLOPs. My god there are god suggestions on updating them and are desperately needed.
Overtoad Hail
WormCraft
#834 - 2012-11-11 23:27:11 UTC
It would be wise to train command ships and mauraders to V. These take a while and will be next in line for rebalance.
Msgerbs
The Ronin Wind
Aegis Militia
#835 - 2012-11-12 00:09:41 UTC
Baki Yuku wrote:
NeoShocker wrote:
No, i disagree on the multi bonuses on the races for command ships, its not even distinct.

If you are going to do that, then AT LEAST the specific race have better bonus over the other. Like vulture gets 5% shield bonus and 3% skirmish. I mean come on, 3% across the two race? :(


I agree! and being able to use more then 3 links on a Tech 3 lol what is that supposed to be good for its useless.. wanna know why because we already have tons of boosting alts.. so why would we use a ship that provides 2% which is freaking useless and not even close to cost efficient..

Then don't use them. T3 cruisers are a scourge upon new eden.
Oblivion Maximus
War 247
#836 - 2012-11-12 00:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Faction Crusier about to become worthless ?

Best guess on what they will drop too... I am guessing price drop by 50% once new crusiers hit.....

Reason.. New t1s are Better in most cases then Navy version...

Edit: Added your subject to your comment so I can merge this to the right topic. - ISD Suvetar
Msgerbs
The Ronin Wind
Aegis Militia
#837 - 2012-11-12 00:52:07 UTC
Remind me why I trained Gallente? Everybody is getting drone boats in these new changes.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#838 - 2012-11-12 00:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Oblivion Maximus wrote:
Faction Crusier about to become worthless ?

Best guess on what they will drop too... I am guessing price drop by 50% once new crusiers hit.....

Reason.. New t1s are Better in most cases then Navy version...

Edit: Added your subject to your comment so I can merge this to the right topic. - ISD Suvetar


And then later on the Navy cruisers will be rebalanced. They're a lower priority since they're not exactly a popular class of ships, even compared to cruisers which aren't themselves terribly popular especially compared with how often they should be used.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#839 - 2012-11-12 00:56:49 UTC
Cleaned up an off-topic real-world politics outbreak.

Please leave it out of here in the future, thanks!.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#840 - 2012-11-12 01:51:14 UTC
You merged topics. I didn't even know you could do that. Can I just say that's a lot more preferred than locking duplicate topics?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)