These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#181 - 2012-10-10 22:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
It's a bit of a gray line, where does the concept end and the gameplay start? Just thinking about ideas isn't necessarily going to get good results. Making a simple version you can play does. Essentially what we've done is a period a taking a concept and trying to make some fun gameplay with it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, what matters is execution and this is a good way to short circuit part of the execution so that you haven't got months into development only to realise there isn't a good game forthcoming. Rather fail early and often without spending too much in order to get to an awesome idea than spend years making something with no clear idea of what the end result is going to be. I've been there and got that t-shirt at other companies, so I'm not anxious to repeat the experience. Lol


Concept ends when you have a roadmap from start to finish of development, when you have discussed and brainstormed every possible outcome to every possible situation, when you have artistic representational drawings of the environment, characters effects, lighting, and miscellaneous models, You should have enough concept material that when you give it to another person not involved in the concept they can tell you exactly what is going to become of it, after many hours of boring boardroom meetings, the concept is a foundation, and with an unfinished foundation even if you do manage to build it, it will fall down around you.

CCP Bayesian wrote:
So that you haven't got months into development only to realise there isn't a good game forthcoming


This is obviously a lesson you learnt from Incarna, but isn't this the point of concept? Surely you know what the end goal is, how can you not, you can't just make things and hope they turn into something fun.

Playing what you have is mostly irrelevant because you do it in isolated environments that can be predicted, the experience will NOT be the same when released to the general EVE population, whats fun in the office is not neccesarily fun for the people who haven't worked on it.

In my opinion if you cannot gaurantee it's going to be fun or worthwhile for the players, then your not ready to start development.

Regardless I don't know how much work you have done on this, concept or otherwise, there is no way for me to know (unless I secretely work for CCP) but if you do have a strong foundation, concept art and clear roadmaps, maybe you should release some of that instead of just creating a forum post trying to hype things up. talk is cheap as they say, typing cheaper.

Your obvious experience in video game design has prepared you well for your future career in the fast food industry. Smile

Quote:
Concept ends when you have a roadmap from start to finish of development, when you have discussed and brainstormed every possible outcome to every possible situation, when you have artistic representational drawings of the environment, characters effects, lighting, and miscellaneous models,

Big smileBig smileBig smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Lyskal Oskold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#182 - 2012-10-10 23:29:09 UTC
I approve of Team Avatar. I was starting to drift out of EVE, might come back in to do some slow moon hopping.

"Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb

Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2012-10-11 03:02:48 UTC
I'm curious as to what the purpose of this post is tbh
Flamespar
WarRavens
#184 - 2012-10-11 05:09:04 UTC
One thing that you might consider doing when the time finally comes round to implementing this stuff is having a design competition where players can submit their own design for an establishment, or maybe design an object that can be found on the derelict stations.

I'd love to have a go at this.
Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#185 - 2012-10-11 07:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Tera
Benny Ohu wrote:
Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera

and magnetoboots, these are essential


why haz mag booties when u can haz an eva suit with little thrusters to maneuver in zero g also for eva activity we need a tether so we dont float off in to space but if that did happen i could just suicide too i also assume that capsulers will also be getting the same sleeper/talocan tech derived implants that the dusties have to make are eva/instation activities safe for us so you know that we wont catch a case of death P

i really wana see some zero g game play inside of sleeper structures in sted of just walking i can walk in rl if i wanted to do that or play a walking simulator like dayz Lol jk

can we haz moon bases like not pos but actualy on dem moons and it would be cool if we could dock ships on dem moonz and and haz super secret undgroud bases on dem moons since moons will be pointless after you take dat moon goo out and put it in rings and and make dem new pos ancorabel any where in a system

but yes eve should be the premiere SPACE SIM not the premiere SPACESHIP SIM i want to walk on planets moons stations and ships inside and out then eve will be great now its just cool space ship game not an epic universe as far as im concerned you guys have spent 10 years on space ships time to "flesh" out the rest of the universe a bit
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#186 - 2012-10-11 08:51:45 UTC
Awesome
CCP Bayesian
#187 - 2012-10-11 09:09:15 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
The feedback you get here is not good enough ? only the ones with the time and money to go to fanfest have good feedback?


No, the feedback here from what we've said and shown here has been excellent and helpful. I'm pretty sure there is a large group of people who could provide excellent feedback but fanfest is an opportunity for us to show things and get feedback face to face. If and when development actually goes forward I'd be pushing for lots of community involvement as early as possible. I don't see any other way of really developing a game feature in as complex a system as EVE Online where emergent behaviour and interesting social interactions are such a big part of the game.


When you say community involvement from an early stage, what do you mean?


Getting the in development game into peoples hands as early as possible.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#188 - 2012-10-11 09:10:29 UTC
I'm doing nothing, Send everything to my house ^_^

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#189 - 2012-10-11 09:22:51 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
More than that, I am an immortal capsuleer capable of taking and discarding planets, flesh and souls as a child would toys, and I do not expect having to tolerate wearing boots of the non-magneto variety


Obviously we need Magneto Boots. But we Caldari, having surpassed the decadent Gallente technology, will get Grav boots. Amarr Laser Boots will of course remain viable.

(Everyone try not to laugh at Disco Stu in his Minmatar Radio Boots.)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#190 - 2012-10-11 09:25:30 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.

Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.


Please please please ♥

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#191 - 2012-10-11 09:29:23 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive.


I'm excited!

But one question: in my writeup, "The Resurrection Men Storyboard" I touch on implementing the gameplay of the EVE Chronicles story of the same name: specifically, the location of interesting mental assets, securing those assets, extracting them from the host and then preparing them for market. That is, hunting down e.g.: a smart hacker, sitting that hacker in a couch and dosing them up with nanites, extracting the portions of their brain responsible for their elite hacking skills, packaging them up in an implant, and delivering the implant to the marketplace.

Initially my idea was for Dust Bunnies to do the legwork on behalf of capsuleers, with Planetary Interaction contributing to the manufacturing process.

Although I appreciate the need to keep things under wraps until you do the reveal at FanFest or through a mechanism of your choosing, is it likely that DUST 514 and Planetary Interaction will play significant roles in your proposed system of putting implant manufacture into the hands of the players?

Additionally, do you imagine the NPC markets participating in this industry at all through, say, replacing existing implants with various high-value components essential to manufacturing implants?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#192 - 2012-10-11 09:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.


Is there any discussion of using station environments as a "open beta" for the multi-character environments before shoving us into combat environments with no training in the UI? Lol
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#193 - 2012-10-11 09:54:10 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.


Is there any discussion of using station environments as a "open beta" for the multi-character environments before shoving us into combat environments with no training in the UI? Lol



What? Those combat environments are the training Pirate

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#194 - 2012-10-11 09:57:36 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.


Is there any discussion of using station environments as a "open beta" for the multi-character environments before shoving us into combat environments with no training in the UI? Lol

We did consider it, but It actually takes quite an effort to make simple multiuser environments without any mechanics. It's almost half the work of doing the real feature, so we are not doing that as this point until we are commited and resourced to move forward with proper in-station gameplay.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#195 - 2012-10-11 10:52:59 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
We did consider it, but It actually takes quite an effort to make simple multiuser environments without any mechanics. It's almost half the work of doing the real feature, so we are not doing that as this point until we are commited and resourced to move forward with proper in-station gameplay.


I felt a great disturbance in The Force … as if a million Barbies cried out in terror and were suddenly homeless. I fear basement virginity has happened.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2012-10-11 11:35:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
This is great news and good to see that team avatar have clearly been reading the feedback/suggestions that some of us, more die hard WIS supporters, have been posting for the past year or so now.

If there is ever a closed alpha/beta for this new content, i would love to be a part of it, CCP Bayesian.

I'm disappointed that Dust 514 (a game that a large portion of the community will not play) is effecting the future development/progress of EVE Online... But what can you do?!

Good luck TA,

Rek Seven
Marcus Harikari
#197 - 2012-10-11 11:44:10 UTC
avatars FTW need to make walking in stations!!!
Dagda Morr
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#198 - 2012-10-11 13:08:23 UTC
I hated the woaling in station element of Incarna - not becasue I thought that avatars were a waste of time, just that it had literally no gameplay value at all beyond being space barbies.

As I see it 2x things need to happen to incorporate the walking in stations into the game - is has to be more than space barbies or glorified chat rooms. From what I'm reading it looks like this could be a really fun, my only issue is why do this when there is DUST? It would seem logical to just have DUST guys go into these wrecks - especially if it becomes essentially another FPS in ruined maps.

The other thing that work needs to be done so that it doesn't melt graphics cards - despite the optimisation done using the existing wa
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#199 - 2012-10-11 13:21:28 UTC
This idea would certainly add new dimensions to Eve's gameplay.

I can understand the financial constraints of doing this, especially at the moment with DUST due, and personally (unlike many grumpy sods here) I appreciate you sharing these proto-ideas and concepts with us. Even if these things don't ever materialise it is interesting to speculate on the potential of Eve through additional new gameplay areas etc...

That potential is one of the most interesting things for me, and I often wonder if provided the game and company are still going what the game will encompass in 10, 20 or even 50 more years!

The demand for 'Eve' as a science fiction simulator will always be there, and if I had a few hundred million quid myself I'd be tempted to invest in developing more content for this game.

I wonder if you at CCP have considered either taking the game to angel investors like on Dragons Den or whatever?
- Yes I'd be sceptical of that as a player because outside investors would probably demand you squeeze players as hard as possible to make as much as they could on their investment.

Another possibility is outsourcing other gameplay elements to other development companies and considering bolt on additions to gameplay - for example PKR avatar poker might be interested in providing that content themselves either by license or whatever, and it might be more realistic for them to develop in partnership with CCP rather than you at CCP do it all in-house?

Whatever course and direction you folks take I'm glad the communication is better than it was before Incarna for example. Keep us players informed and the more rational element of us will thank you for it.

Cheers.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-10-11 14:18:01 UTC
Dagda Morr wrote:
my only issue is why do this when there is DUST? It would seem logical to just have DUST guys go into these wrecks - especially if it becomes essentially another FPS in ruined maps.


Yeah i see your point, It's totally logical to expect your customers to go out and spend £200 on a PS3 just to play a FPS... Roll