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The Two CSMs of EVE Online

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Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#41 - 2011-10-14 10:28:00 UTC
Darian Reymont wrote:
Also please stop insulting Irdalth, it's making you look even worse than you normally do. Irdalth is one of the nicest people in this game, not to mention one of the hardest working, and anybody who has spoken to him will tell you the same. That you somehow managed to fall out with him really speaks volumes.


I have no vested interest in that part of the conversation nor am I taking sides in it but "friendly and helpful" doesn't somehow make one capable of being a good spokesperson.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-10-14 10:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Darian Reymont wrote:
Furthermore, we're in the process of making more changes to the way we deploy the WSOP ... that should see even less use of the WSOP in future.

That's hilarious. You don't need to change the way you deploy the WSOP so that there's less need for the WSOP. CCP did that for you. That's why you have 19 corporations decshielding you. And I'm sure there's a contingency to alliance hop if necessary. Since the University will never be involved in a non-consensual war again, there's no need to tinker with the WSOP. That's a thing of the past. For the University Museum.
Orion Guardian
#43 - 2011-10-14 10:29:18 UTC
You Sir/Madam got a serious problem withy our stalker mentality.

If your arguments weren't so COMPLETELY "Eve-Uni is a villain" all the time perhaps some people would listen more to arguments that might even be valid.

If you made a thread about how the change in Rules changes the Highsec landscape due to wardec changes etc it would be a COMPLETELY different matter than "Eve-Uni this, Eve-Uni that blablabla"

You Sir/Madam really need to rethink your priorities because this thread is NOT about the change of GM-policies but because of your huge Ego trying to bash Eve-Uni PLEASE, just play the game its big enough to justignore EU
The Apostle
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-10-14 10:33:14 UTC
@Poetic

Dude. Your tweet bio is still showing "A student at EVE University, plying my trades in New Eden and learning as much as I can before I move on to other pastures."

Please make the appropriate corrections forthwith.

for
Eve-Uni CEO

PS: Just sayin' Cool

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-10-14 10:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
The Apostle wrote:
@Poetic

Dude. Your tweet bio is still showing "A student at EVE University, plying my trades in New Eden and learning as much as I can before I move on to other pastures."

Done. Thanks for the heads up.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-10-14 10:41:50 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
@Poetic

Dude. Your tweet bio is still showing "A student at EVE University, plying my trades in New Eden and learning as much as I can before I move on to other pastures."

I shall. Made changes elsewhere. Forgot the Twitters.

For the record, I was following Helmar and saw you "lobbying".... Followed the link.

Word of professional advice if I would be so bold: CEO's don't usually get involved nor seek to reverse staff decisions without making the staff look rather poorly.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-10-14 10:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
The Apostle wrote:
For the record, I was following Helmar and saw you "lobbying".... Followed the link.

Word of professional advice if I would be so bold: CEO's don't usually get involved nor seek to reverse staff decisions without making the staff look rather poorly.

I was lobbying Hilmar about what? The last time I tweeted to Hilmar was when he mentioned buffing up the CONCORD AI. I thought he was making joke. Turned out he was being serious. I don't even follow @hilmarveigar, because he uses 4square, which is annoying as all hell. He's like a 12 year old girl with all the check-ins.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2011-10-14 10:46:55 UTC
Vachir Khan wrote:
Per usual, it'll need a lot of abuse of this mechanic (previously called exploit) and a lot of whining before this gets turned around by CCP. So all this posting and shouting is a GOOD thing. The more we shout about it, the more people reply to it how it's "not at all a bad thing" the more coverage it gets and the more people start to use it.

And once corporations start mass using this mechanic (previously called exploit) then finally CCP, the lumbering hulk that it is, will wake up, give it 2 seconds of attention and nerf it into the ground. So please, do keep posting, shouting and replying in threads like this and please, PLEASE, every corp should start using this mechanic (previously called exploit). That's the fastest way to get it taken care of.
Give me ~35 days, and I'll have DecShield Alliance up and running from scratch.

I'm thinking of pricing it at 2M ISK to shed your wardec (obviously with a bulk discount if you get decced more than once in a month, because I'm a nice person) to cover the upkeep fee.

What do you think? Does it sound like a reasonable plan?
Darian Reymont
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-10-14 11:01:49 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Darian Reymont wrote:
Furthermore, we're in the process of making more changes to the way we deploy the WSOP ... that should see even less use of the WSOP in future.

That's hilarious. You don't need to change the way you deploy the WSOP so that there's less need for the WSOP. CCP did that for you. That's why you have 19 corporations decshielding you. And I'm sure there's a contingency to alliance hop if necessary. Since the University will never be involved in a non-consensual war again, there's no need to tinker with the WSOP. That's a thing of the past. For the University Museum.

You're correct of course, I worded things poorly. I should have said we were in the process of making changes, prior to finding out about CCP's policy changes. At this stage they are redundant, I suppose, though it does serve to highlight that we were not aware of these changes prior to the announcement.

For the record, E-UNI will not be alliance hopping. If somebody wants to pay up and dec us then we'll fight them, same as always. Hopefully anybody willing to stump up that much cash actually intends to fight, anyway. If not, we can try out those new WSOP policies.P

Anyway the conversation is starting to loop, so I'm going to bow out at this stage. I'll reiterate some key points from E-UNI's perspective:

  • We did not lobby CCP for these policy changes, nor were we aware of them before the announcement.
  • We do not want any special treatment from CCP.
  • We do not want to be immune to PvP (or even wardecs).
  • We are (mostly) not evil!

Fly safe, New Eden.

Former E-UNI Director, station pilot and snoob. https://twitter.com//DarianReymont
Orion Guardian
#50 - 2011-10-14 11:14:11 UTC
On a side note, could someone pelase elaborate what this Mechanic entails?

As far as I understodd some corporation creates a few ONe-Man corps and an Alliance with them to increase Wardec costs and then can even leave the alliance to get rid of the Wardec? Anything else?
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-10-14 11:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vastek Non
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
There are two CSMs in this game.

The one that the players voted for. And EVE University.

The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield.

The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless.


Griefer tears, best tears Lol

Edit: Actually a bitter ex I see. Sick and sad.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#52 - 2011-10-14 11:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelduum Revaan
Small note: Although I haven't actually mention it to any of the members, I plan to have semi-regular wardecs with RvB (due to the really good fights they brought this last month), and the members of the "DecShield" corporations are free to log in and randomly jump out at any E-UNI member.

Orion GUardian wrote:
On a side note, could someone pelase elaborate what this Mechanic entails?
Go have a look at the comments in the other thread about the DecShield thing - you should be able to peace together the way that works from the comments, and maybe check eve-search.com for "Immune Empire" for a practical example of the old "join alliance" thing.


And now my favourite bit:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Thorn Galen wrote:
The Op has made it clear the the GM's say it is not an exploit, or am I wrong ?

They are avoiding 72 billion ISK per month in CONCORD fees running their 19 corp decshield. That "exploit" is not commonly known... The exploit was given to them by CCP...

Not commonly known, apart from the fact you yourself quoted someone explaining it earlier today...


Poetic, please understand, we can never be together, we're too different. I know you still love me, but please, start taking the medication again... for me?
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#53 - 2011-10-14 12:22:22 UTC
So basically you are flaming that it costs now a lot of money to be able to shoot noobs.... instead of going out and engaging somebody of your size....

sir you just lost all possible respect as a eve player and a human beeing... you are officcially worthless now.

To EVE-UNI: awesome job guys, i wish i had known about you when i started eve.
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-10-14 13:03:46 UTC
non judgement wrote:

On a side note: Goons and Test are big teaching corps? For some reason I never thought of Test and Goons as teaching new players. Maybe they do, but I think ít's a very small part of what they really do and not their main focus.


Training new players is one of the most important things we do. We have a very small recruitment pool: we don't recruit eve players to join goons, we recruit goons to come play eve. That means that every single new goon is tremendously valuable to us. Because we have just a trickle of new players most of the time, our training isn't as organized as Eve Uni, obviously. During our annual newbie drive we'll run a few actual classes, but most of the time it is more informal than that.


To some extent we teach them Eve the same way throwing a child into deep water teaches her to swim. At times people have accused us of trying to generate lag by bringing "alts" in T1 frigates and T1 cruisers to a fleet fight, but those aren't alts, those are newbies. We want our newbies on the battlefield in their in their little rifters the first day they play Eve Online. Yes they die if anyone looks in their direction and it is terrible for our k/d ratio, but we keep giving them piles of free pre-fit rifters until they learn how to fly small tacklers like a pr0, or they finish training for something more durable. Between fights we have our wiki, videos, in-game help channel, mentors, squads, and the Boot Camp subforum to explain what is going on. We spend about 500 million a month on free stuff for newbies at the alliance level, plus squads have their own programs like giving newbies 103 free skill books, free cruisers, free implants, and other things.


I've seen public recruiting PVP corps that won't even look at anyone with less than 10 or 15 million skill points. That is insane. How many of those skill points are wasted on mining, mission running, production, or other skills that are completely worthless for a PVP character? Not to mention all the bad habits they will pick up after months of running level 2 missions in "safe" space as they wait for the skills to train. You can't expect someone to spend 9,999,999 skillpoints as a care bear and suddenly morph into a grizzly when they hit 10,000,000.


Plus, newbies are awesome to be around. The better you get at Eve the more insufferable you become, and that's a fact. Lol Little bees, best bees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfv1QtZDirY


Our buddies in TEST explained it pretty well here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96b7Jk5xCTQ
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#55 - 2011-10-14 13:33:49 UTC
You might be right and that TEST video seems pretty good. But still the fact is that you guys spending 500m is nothing. Being able to field titans and sc means 500m is just a drop in the ocean. My point is that your main focus isn't just training people. If it was, I'd have to say that you guys sure have a lot of nullsec space for an alliance that just trains new players.
P
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#56 - 2011-10-14 13:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Karim alRashid
Jokerface666 wrote:
So basically you are flaming that it costs now a lot of money to be able to shoot noobs.... instead of going out and engaging somebody of your size....


Actually, the discussed abuse of game mechanics does not differentiate between new and old players, on either side of the war declaration.

Also, EVE University are a pretty big size corp, 1300+ members, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the third or fourth largest in EVE. Plus, it has been stated a few times that there are about 300 or so members older than an year in EVE University.

All this begs the question: Do you even know what you are talking about or just came here to express
you e-hatred against somebody?

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-10-14 13:38:33 UTC
Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result...

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2011-10-14 13:39:45 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result...
Seeing as how up until very recently, that very use was deemed an exploit, yes.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#59 - 2011-10-14 13:48:25 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result...


Your sarcasm aside, the point is not using a game mechanic cleverly, but using it in unintended ways.

cf. POS bowling, evading CONCORD or changing corps while in space to surprise war targets - all pretty well within game mechanics.

Of course, you may argue that the possibility to create a decshield was intended way back when CCP introduced increasing costs for multitude of wardecs and I really can't prove to you that it was unintended,
as well as you can't prove to me that it was intended.

So, it's matter of opinion whether this is how it should be or just an oversight from CCP devs.

And people just voice their opinion, like they are supposed to do on this facility called "forums".

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Poetic Stanzitroll
Doomheim
#60 - 2011-10-14 13:50:28 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:

Poetic, please understand, we can never be together, we're too different. I know you still love me, but please, start taking the medication again... for me?


My heart is broken. I have gathered the shattered pieces and placed them in a bag. You have broken my heart. Cry

-Check out my blog, it's the best!