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How will crimewatch changes "break" can flipping?

First post
Author
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#261 - 2012-08-17 02:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Kalisis wrote:
Tesal wrote:
This is a bad idea. What about mining ops where you have miners out of your corp or alliance. You need to empty jetcans just to get the ore, picking up with an Orca or a hauler. You get flagged that way, but no one shoots you because you are a friendly. After these changes anyone would be able to shoot your orca or hauler. This would end out of corp mining ops.


Can't wait for this, should be fun to see all the orcas that get pop'd due to this. Hopefully I'll catch a couple. Twisted



you might be waiting a long time. Nobody would do what you say if you get flagged to everyone. I'm not surprised at all at the brainless comments made by miner gankers. They pick on the defenseless because they themselves are stupid and awful at any pvp that takes actual skill.

I cant thank CCP enough for finally making this game attractive to real pvpers, instead of being the mindless joke it has been.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#262 - 2012-08-17 02:27:46 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Kalisis wrote:
Tesal wrote:
This is a bad idea. What about mining ops where you have miners out of your corp or alliance. You need to empty jetcans just to get the ore, picking up with an Orca or a hauler. You get flagged that way, but no one shoots you because you are a friendly. After these changes anyone would be able to shoot your orca or hauler. This would end out of corp mining ops.


Can't wait for this, should be fun to see all the orcas that get pop'd due to this. Hopefully I'll catch a couple. Twisted



you might be waiting a long time. Nobody would do what you say if you get flagged to everyone. Not surprised at all at the brainless comments made by miner gankers. They pick on the defenseless because they themselves are stupid and awful at any pvp that takes actual skill.

I cant thank CCP enough for finally making this game attractive to real pvpers, instead of being the mindless joke it has been.

^___^

Highsec PvP will never be better after CCP's gone and worked on it :)

(Because maybe it gets worse, har har)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#263 - 2012-08-17 02:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Kalisis wrote:
Tesal wrote:
This is a bad idea. What about mining ops where you have miners out of your corp or alliance. You need to empty jetcans just to get the ore, picking up with an Orca or a hauler. You get flagged that way, but no one shoots you because you are a friendly. After these changes anyone would be able to shoot your orca or hauler. This would end out of corp mining ops.


Can't wait for this, should be fun to see all the orcas that get pop'd due to this. Hopefully I'll catch a couple. Twisted



you might be waiting a long time. Nobody would do what you say if you get flagged to everyone. Not surprised at all at the brainless comments made by miner gankers. They pick on the defenseless because they themselves are stupid and awful at any pvp that takes actual skill.

I cant thank CCP enough for finally making this game attractive to real pvpers, instead of being the mindless joke it has been.

^___^

Highsec PvP will never be better after CCP's gone and worked on it :)

(Because maybe it gets worse, har har)


its just unfortunate that most can flippers are cowards and probably wont be flipping many cans after this change. Still, I look foward to extracting many tears from the losers of EVE who are dumb enough to flip a can when I'm in system.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#264 - 2012-08-17 03:09:37 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

its just unfortunate that most can flippers are cowards and probably wont be flipping many cans after this change. Still, I look foward to extracting many tears from the losers of EVE who are dumb enough to flip a can when I'm in system.


Still waiting on that gank support-Orca killmail, since you like killing them so much.

Or at least an explanation on how you think you plan to kill a gank-support Orca (complete with a Noctis....!!!)

You are pretty long on insults and pretty short on....other things, buster.



Malsavias Toralen
lolpercorp
#265 - 2012-08-17 05:21:31 UTC
Plain and simple Concord is declaring that can flipping is a now more punishable offence. Sucks but it makes sense in game concord controls the rules =P
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#266 - 2012-08-17 06:53:08 UTC
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Plain and simple Concord is declaring that can flipping is a now more punishable offence. Sucks but it makes sense in game concord controls the rules =P

You must be confused. CONCORD is a fictional entity.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#267 - 2012-08-17 07:16:11 UTC
I get the feeling that CCP is trying to make high sec PVP more available for everybody with this proposed change.

Presently, you can make the choice to flip cans, and get that sort of PVP that might be 1v1 or 1v corp. But all of the choice is wtih the can flipper at the moment.

They actually have to find a jet can, that someone already made the choice to jettison, to try for that PVP, and the owner of the can can decide on what to do about it based on any available combat assets.

But these days, a lot of people don't have time to go flipping cans all day to get that "one noob who takes the bait" or even better, some turn of events that leads to a fleet battle. While some mining corps can be vast, coordination is not as common nor as easy as some people think. These take a lot of time.

The implication of crimewatch is that you become a part of the equation without having to flip a can, nor be the owner of the can.

This adds a third party to the mix. Whereas we have a can flipper, someone who seeks PVP (or whatever), and the flipee, we now have a vigilante. The participation rate of this form of PVP has now increased 50 percent. You need not be an agressor nor a miner, but you can be a vigilante instead.

And this alone becomes another opportunity for PVP. Not looking for cans to flip, not waiting for someone to flip your can, but instead bouncing around looking for someone who is "flagged" because of this.

Last I recall, there was some cost to being a vigilante, being flagged yourself. I remember that was originally mentioned, but not aware of the latest notes. if this is the case, then there is a lot of potential.

Ultimately, the goal might be such that you undock and get PVP much sooner. It would be nice to do so, without roaming, scouting, having to join a 0.0 corp, or gate camp/cat and mouse in low.

Would this potentially turn high sec into some kind of PVP arena? I don't know, but I would hope so because I think a good time will be had by all.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#268 - 2012-08-17 07:33:47 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Kalisis wrote:
Tesal wrote:
This is a bad idea. What about mining ops where you have miners out of your corp or alliance. You need to empty jetcans just to get the ore, picking up with an Orca or a hauler. You get flagged that way, but no one shoots you because you are a friendly. After these changes anyone would be able to shoot your orca or hauler. This would end out of corp mining ops.


Can't wait for this, should be fun to see all the orcas that get pop'd due to this. Hopefully I'll catch a couple. Twisted



you might be waiting a long time. Nobody would do what you say if you get flagged to everyone. Not surprised at all at the brainless comments made by miner gankers. They pick on the defenseless because they themselves are stupid and awful at any pvp that takes actual skill.

I cant thank CCP enough for finally making this game attractive to real pvpers, instead of being the mindless joke it has been.

^___^

Highsec PvP will never be better after CCP's gone and worked on it :)

(Because maybe it gets worse, har har)


its just unfortunate that most can flippers are cowards and probably wont be flipping many cans after this change. Still, I look foward to extracting many tears from the losers of EVE who are dumb enough to flip a can when I'm in system.


What system are you in, I would like to take a crack at that.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#269 - 2012-08-17 08:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Melodee619
As has been said all CCP is doing now is catering hand over firs tto the pve crowd. They want people to start talking about eve being "nice" an friendly an no risk... As the guy from Razor stated "complacency, stupidity will be even more widespread now. No matter how many times you tell them how to avoid trouble, it all comes down to them not wanting to take any responsibility. They have harrased CCP into playing for them.

Without over dramatizing things to much, it's a sad day for EVE to see it going down this path....

"its just unfortunate that most can flippers are cowards and probably wont be flipping many cans after this change. Still, I look foward to extracting many tears from the losers of EVE who are dumb enough to flip a can when I'm in system."

LOL there is no such thing as cowards in a computer game. I get you want to sound like your hard etc etc, but it comes off as...well, anyway.
Fact is, CCP seem to have declared that our playstyle is now no longer valid.
Mission runners will be next to get protection.

Can flipping (not something I bother with)
ganking (my main gameplay style)

Seem to be on the outs.
Suvari Khashour
Black Rabbit Security
#270 - 2012-08-17 09:36:56 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
As has been said all CCP is doing now is catering hand over firs tto the pve crowd. They want people to start talking about eve being "nice" an friendly an no risk... As the guy from Razor stated "complacency, stupidity will be even more widespread now. No matter how many times you tell them how to avoid trouble, it all comes down to them not wanting to take any responsibility. They have harrased CCP into playing for them.

Without over dramatizing things to much, it's a sad day for EVE to see it going down this path....

"its just unfortunate that most can flippers are cowards and probably wont be flipping many cans after this change. Still, I look foward to extracting many tears from the losers of EVE who are dumb enough to flip a can when I'm in system."

LOL there is no such thing as cowards in a computer game. I get you want to sound like your hard etc etc, but it comes off as...well, anyway.
Fact is, CCP seem to have declared that our playstyle is now no longer valid.
Mission runners will be next to get protection.

Can flipping (not something I bother with)
ganking (my main gameplay style)

Seem to be on the outs.


why not try PvP instead, it takes some skill i know, but.. give it a whirl you might even enjoy it. but i doubt you have the balls tbh. Pirate
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#271 - 2012-08-17 09:40:22 UTC
Suvari Khashour wrote:
why not try PvP instead, it takes some skill i know, but.. give it a whirl you might even enjoy it. but i doubt you have the balls tbh. Pirate


Why are you using a posting alt?
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#272 - 2012-08-17 09:49:13 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Suvari Khashour wrote:
why not try PvP instead, it takes some skill i know, but.. give it a whirl you might even enjoy it. but i doubt you have the balls tbh. Pirate


Why are you using a posting alt?


Indeed.

PvP is the result of things, most smart Eve players are seeking opertunities usually based on earning ISK, PvP is something that is often the result of our efforts. I personally never seek out PvP in its own right, but it just happens to find me on a regular basis because of other persuits.

Can flipping is something that I have used on occassion when someone is infringing on my oppertunities. For example if Im running mining ops and a bunch of strip miners are rolling on my turf, can flipping and harrasing them to get them to leave is a very effective way to ... solve the problem.

I do agree however that if your in a fleet with someone and you get can flipped, you should be flagged to everyone in that fleet. To me, a fleet is a temporary alliance that should be treated as "we are temporarily in the same corp" so that if I get war deced and fleet up with people, we are now all at war. This to me is in the spirit of the game and a missing component of the flagging mechanic.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Suvari Khashour
Black Rabbit Security
#273 - 2012-08-17 09:54:57 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Suvari Khashour wrote:
why not try PvP instead, it takes some skill i know, but.. give it a whirl you might even enjoy it. but i doubt you have the balls tbh. Pirate


Why are you using a posting alt?


Because im a miner of course... Roll
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#274 - 2012-08-17 10:27:21 UTC
Suvari Khashour wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Suvari Khashour wrote:
why not try PvP instead, it takes some skill i know, but.. give it a whirl you might even enjoy it. but i doubt you have the balls tbh. Pirate


Why are you using a posting alt?


Because im a miner of course... Roll


So you talk about others lacking balls but you use an alt to post. I guess that invalidates pretty much anything you post then, just so we're clear on that.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#275 - 2012-08-17 11:45:04 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I do agree however that if your in a fleet with someone and you get can flipped, you should be flagged to everyone in that fleet. To me, a fleet is a temporary alliance that should be treated as "we are temporarily in the same corp" so that if I get war deced and fleet up with people, we are now all at war. This to me is in the spirit of the game and a missing component of the flagging mechanic.


The problem with that is that fleets are fluid. People can join, leave, DC and come back etc etc and that would create a nightmare for the flagging system and it would be SUCH a mess it just won't work. There really is no problem in keeping it corp only, if people choose to not be in the same corp then they choose to have less options, it really is that simple. I would agree to an alliance wide flagging, simply because "it makes sense".
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#276 - 2012-08-17 12:18:56 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I do agree however that if your in a fleet with someone and you get can flipped, you should be flagged to everyone in that fleet. To me, a fleet is a temporary alliance that should be treated as "we are temporarily in the same corp" so that if I get war deced and fleet up with people, we are now all at war. This to me is in the spirit of the game and a missing component of the flagging mechanic.


The problem with that is that fleets are fluid. People can join, leave, DC and come back etc etc and that would create a nightmare for the flagging system and it would be SUCH a mess it just won't work. There really is no problem in keeping it corp only, if people choose to not be in the same corp then they choose to have less options, it really is that simple. I would agree to an alliance wide flagging, simply because "it makes sense".


a nightmare for the flagging system? lol. Not really.

Also, posting on an alt doesn't invalidate anything, its actually a smart thing to do if you are a miner. You never know when some disgruntled butthurt baby might take personal offense to hearing the unwanted truth and dedicate his existence to trying to annoy you in EVE.

Nice try, you fail.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#277 - 2012-08-17 12:21:15 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
As has been said all CCP is doing now is catering hand over firs tto the pve crowd. They want people to start talking about eve being "nice" an friendly an no risk... As the guy from Razor stated "complacency, stupidity will be even more widespread now. No matter how many times you tell them how to avoid trouble, it all comes down to them not wanting to take any responsibility. They have harrased CCP into playing for them.

Without over dramatizing things to much, it's a sad day for EVE to see it going down this path....

"its just unfortunate that most can flippers are cowards and probably wont be flipping many cans after this change. Still, I look foward to extracting many tears from the losers of EVE who are dumb enough to flip a can when I'm in system."

LOL there is no such thing as cowards in a computer game. I get you want to sound like your hard etc etc, but it comes off as...well, anyway.
Fact is, CCP seem to have declared that our playstyle is now no longer valid.
Mission runners will be next to get protection.

Can flipping (not something I bother with)
ganking (my main gameplay style)

Seem to be on the outs.


its purely about adding risk to can flipping, no longer can you have your private grief war against noobs with essentially zero risk. Cry more and l2p.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#278 - 2012-08-17 12:56:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Plain and simple Concord is declaring that can flipping is a now more punishable offence. Sucks but it makes sense in game concord controls the rules =P

You must be confused. CONCORD is a fictional entity.


CCP establishes the rules of EVE, and CONCORD carries them out in-game.
Auar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#279 - 2012-08-17 13:06:30 UTC
Suvari Khashour wrote:
Melodee619 wrote:
As has been said all CCP is doing now is catering hand over firs tto the pve crowd. They want people to start talking about eve being "nice" an friendly an no risk... As the guy from Razor stated "complacency, stupidity will be even more widespread now. No matter how many times you tell them how to avoid trouble, it all comes down to them not wanting to take any responsibility. They have harrased CCP into playing for them.

Without over dramatizing things to much, it's a sad day for EVE to see it going down this path....

"its just unfortunate that most can flippers are cowards and probably wont be flipping many cans after this change. Still, I look foward to extracting many tears from the losers of EVE who are dumb enough to flip a can when I'm in system."

LOL there is no such thing as cowards in a computer game. I get you want to sound like your hard etc etc, but it comes off as...well, anyway.
Fact is, CCP seem to have declared that our playstyle is now no longer valid.
Mission runners will be next to get protection.

Can flipping (not something I bother with)
ganking (my main gameplay style)

Seem to be on the outs.


why not try PvP instead, it takes some skill i know, but.. give it a whirl you might even enjoy it. but i doubt you have the balls tbh. Pirate


I love how the assumption in this thread is that if I engage another combat ship because of a can flip then it is not pvp...?

This thread inspired me so I went and flipped a couple cans last night. The result was a Drake dropping in on my Hawk. I couldn't win the fight after engaging but did manage to make an escape to a safe spot. After a couple minutes to allow shield regen I headed back into the belts where a fairly decent size corp presence (and at least one Drake) had kill rights on me. Encountered the Drake pilot again bit this time he was in a Dramiel.

The Dramiel and I had a great one on one fight and I wasn't sure of the outcome until he melted. Before the fight ended a Caldari Navy Hookbill landed on grid. It targeted me, so while the Dram was burning i targeted it, sure enough it goes blinky red and I am thinking I am screwed because i only have 15% shield left. Whatever though, was way too fun a fight to bail out on and you never know if you're up against a fail fit or not.

The Hookbill and I exchange probably three volleys and then Concord showed up to save my ass. Hookbill pilot wasn't part of the corp I offended.

Had a great night of 'PVP' and all the result of flipping a can. In my experience half the time someone takes the bait it is in a capable combat vessel. When you consider this is one of the few ways to get one on one, or small fleet vs. one combat, I would say they are ruining a very viable mechanic for PVP!

Auar



malcovas Henderson
THoF
#280 - 2012-08-17 13:07:31 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Suvari Khashour wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Suvari Khashour wrote:
why not try PvP instead, it takes some skill i know, but.. give it a whirl you might even enjoy it. but i doubt you have the balls tbh. Pirate


Why are you using a posting alt?


Because im a miner of course... Roll


So you talk about others lacking balls but you use an alt to post. I guess that invalidates pretty much anything you post then, just so we're clear on that.



Posting on an Alt should never invalidate the posters "Opinions". I think you are wrong. You're posting on your main? does that then invalidate all Mains opininons? There are many reasons people post on alts. some to be total douches. I choose to post on this character. What I say I believe in, and am definately right in MY opinion. All that matters is not the poster, but what the posters writes. If they mouth off. People will judge them for what they are. Reguardless who said it.


Now people could argue about you. You are not posting on your "ganker/canflipper" So truely you have never ganked or canflipped in your history. You know nothing about the mechanic. You have nothing to back your opinions up. Or do you have some truths told here today, that comfirm somethings, and debunk others.

By your reasoning everything you post in this thread is now invalidated.


good day to you sir