EVE General Discussion

I think the first sign what CCP thought of this idea is when they actually moved a thread TO General Discussion.

You're not ruining it, but you're trying really hard. This is not even a stealth QQ thread, it's an obvious one.

I didn't read any real malice in the OPS post, its simply an uninformed opinion of a new player without a clue. Thats quite common in Eve. The problem is that two months from now, unless he adapts, he will either quit the game, or join the endless stream of people who bring their tears to the forum over some random event involving the destruction of one of their ships. Hence, its quite smart to "discuss" the matter at this stage in his Eve life before he takes one of the two eventual steps, rather than the 3rd step which is adapting, absorbing and becoming part of Eve, rather than one of its endless victims.

Well, since we go about definitions, let's recall what CCP says orignally about this game (CBA to actually quote).

They call it a 'sandbox environment'. Key word - environment.

PVE and PVP are defined as activities, I think most of us including the OP would agree.

So, essentially, it's a game that has both PVP activities available, i.e. shoot the bejesus out of other players, scam them, out-trade, out-mine, out-smart them, log in first after the restart to get that anom, nom nom :)... all that stuff, and...

... PVE activities, like missioning, ratting, etc. Problem is, as someone pointed it out, even if you do PVE, you still affect the environment, which is kind of shared between you and those other nameless thousands of eve players, so you do affect them, even if indirectly. Then again, show me a truly totally absolutely PVE game which still enables player interaction*.

And the environment is defined as sandbox, which means, anyone can do anything they want, to anything or anyone within it. All these points together ought to be pretty self-explanatory.


* Now about some other MMO's people may perceive as PVE games.

Lineage 2 - THE PVP GAME, in fact, at least before the introduction of Kamael chronicles. You walk out of town, anyone can PK you just 'cause they had a bad day.

RIFT? Yes, there's a pve server... still doesn't prevent people from killing your mobs, though. Besides, it all ultimately boils down to getting your char to the top, dressing up, then doing arenas. Reminds something, doesn't it?

Aion... sweet looking title. Except it is boring as hell, because PVP there is not meaningful, not any more.

World of tanks? Roxx, to be sure. But you can argue that by pressing that big red button you consent to be shot at. Well, in eve you do the same by undocking.

SW:TOR and the like... heck, never tried, must be because I'm not into games where everyone is grinding chars for the sake of grinding.

The problem with most such games is that, in a totally controlled, safe environment, progress is constant and guaranteed, even if it's speed is not. At a certain time everyone gets to a point that they literally have the same, best, tried, standard equip/skills/build. Then they got nothing more to do and quickly become bored (and leave if nothing gets done).

Then the company that makes that game has to add new 'chronicles' with more stuff to get and more levels to grind, devaluating all the player has achieved till that poind. And just so that new players had a chance to catch up, all the previous content is made easier, and 'progress' gets devaluated even more.. Rinse, repeat.

At some point, one just gets fed up with having to constantly catch up just to stay on top, knowing that all he does uncountable times plowing through the same mindless dungeon, is not in any way giving him any 'real progress', so, again, he leaves.

Ofc, expecting 'progress' in an MMO of that kind is stupid anyway, it's a game. Better Play DnD then (or something like EvE), where the real product of playing is not some abstract numbers, but a story that is written in player interaction. So, even if you personally are against hurting anyone, even in a virtual world, you can take pride in being successful despite others. Think of it as running an unarmed freighter in an environment close to that of 'Firefly', but without using weapons.

/wall_of_text

Alright, enough talking, will somebody just gimme a drink!?

Thread equals= Stop going to a Burger van to buy hotdogs.

I don't think you are being completely honest here.

They're not meant to. They're only meant to give people enough pause to occasionally not blow up everything they come across. Highsec is all about gambling on the hope that other people's miserliness will keep them form attacking you. Sometimes, that gamble will pay off; other times, it won't; and if you tip the scale so that attacking you does not cost anything, then the odds will quickly fall out of your favour…

You get a warning if you read through the new player information and tutorials, where it still states that other players can attack you at any point for no apparent reason (and that's before we even go into the “everything is PvP” argument). Indeed, this could be made a whole lot clearer, but it's there if you pay attention. At any rate, it's entirely by design and it is not something that will, or even can change without a massive reconstruction from the ground up of the entire game to the point where it is no longer EVE Online.

Unless you are a legit target by having committed a crime or by being at war, attacking someone in highsec means you get blown up. Period. If you don't, it's an exploit. It doesn't matter where or how — CONCORD demands their pound of flesh everywhere in highsec, be it through lost ships or through wardec fees.

Aggression timers come in a couple of varieties. First, there are the timers that determine for how long you are a legitimate target when you commit smaller offences (theft, mainly). For 15 minutes after such a crime, you are a legit target for the victim. Then there's the GCC — the global criminal countdown for large crimes (ganks) which also last for 15 minutes. During those 15 minutes, you are a free-for-all target and if players don't take you out, CONCORD will but only as long as you are in a ship. Then there are the NPC aggression timers, which are largely inconsequential other than if you **** off one of the NPC corps, in which case their stations will start shooting at you and will not stop until 15 minutes have elapsed since they last saw you. Finally, there are the docking timers, which aren't strictly speaking aggression timers but which are closely tied to them: they just say that for a period of time since you last did something offensive towards another player, you are not allowed to dock or use gates (requiring you to “deaggress” to make yourself safe).

It's a PVP oriented game. Sure, I like PVE, but I also know this is first and foremost a PVP oriented game and I use caution accordingly when I undock. You should, too.

Yeah. Sometimes it really is that simple.

The real troll here was ISD

I guess if I was true to my name instead of watching him leave with tail between legs I should suggest to the OP to go to the Goons recruiters, for a small deposit of a couple PLEX they'll let him do all the PvE he wants in their special area deeep in SOV where no one is allowed to go PvP