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Why no support for solo PvE players?

First post
Author
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2012-08-15 02:28:56 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
[
Well that's just rude. It's like staring at the person but your actually holding a conversation through your blutooth.


I'm sorry good Sir.
I can add your name back, if you really wish to be considered as having More Isk Than Brains Syndrome.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#142 - 2012-08-15 02:32:46 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
[
Well that's just rude. It's like staring at the person but your actually holding a conversation through your blutooth.


I'm sorry good Sir.
I can add your name back, if you really wish to be considered as having More Isk Than Brains Syndrome.



Nah all good, I prefer being cheap and ditzy.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?

Ensign X
#143 - 2012-08-15 02:48:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ensign X
Tippia wrote:
literally tl;dr


What part of Peace, Love and Spaceships did you not understand? It was the Peace part wasn't it? Are you, by chance, an American? Blink

Edit: Out of boredom and kind regard for my American friends, I dun red yer poast. It was long, but I managed to tune my feeble mind in long enough to find out that we don't really disagree on much of anything, technically. Just a difference of opinion in a forum dedicated to internet spaceships. Cool
Garresh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2012-08-15 03:04:02 UTC
You are wrong. Very, very wrong.

Within 6 months of starting Eve for the first time, I launched POS in a class 2 wormhole with no support or backup whatsoever. I raised the money myself, ran the thing myself, hauled the fuel myself, and got rich by myself.

I've run a few missions in my day(didn't much like it), and I've done a hell of a lot of ninja salvaging. Truth is, unless you take the bait and shoot, their ninjaing doesn't actually hamper your income all that much.

Now, when I feel like doing some quiet PvE to make ends meet, I do lowsec exploration and puil 50-60 million isk/hr.

It's not that this game is skewed towards PvP. It's simply that to be good at PvE requires being *aware* of threats and knowing how to evade or deter.

Here's a fun excercise: Go down the list of PvE activities, and correlate how much attention each activity requires with how much crying that profession has on the forums. Miners cry constantly because they're always AFK and get killed. MIssion runners cry occassionally when they get ninja'd or ganked(but this has gone down due to ninja salvaging nerfs and increased awareness). W-space dwelling bears pretty much don't cry at all because they watch their d-scan or know what they're getting themselves into. Same thing for lowsec explorers, nullbears, and highsec traders.

The only solo eve professions that actually have problems are the ones that encourage you to leave your computer and go AFK. If you do a high-attention high-reward activity, you'll rapidly learn how to counter threats and find yourself raking in high profits.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#145 - 2012-08-15 03:14:03 UTC
Where does this idea of "I'm a PVEer and I just want to exist in peace" come from"? I mean you literally have to be under assumption that the market is 100% npc seeded for that to make any sense.

What happened to the days when people would "mission" or "mine" or "whatever" instead of labeling it "I am doing PVE now". It's just eve, not pve or pvp.
Ensign X
#146 - 2012-08-15 03:16:39 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
It's just eve, not pve or pvp.


Not empty quoting. Attention
Pip Mayo
Exploration and Laboratory Services
#147 - 2012-08-15 23:37:50 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Pip Mayo wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
Pip don't argue. They will eat you alive in here. You are actively partaking in forum PvP.
You seem to continue so this may be an indicator that you like it?
Possibly try looking up the diplomacy side of EVE...the politics are massive here.


I started the discourse. Only responsible to participate. I am burning out as I type, though. It should die out soon enough. I should have defined PvP vs PvE at the begining. I can see it is not as clear as I had thought it.

Thanks
PM



Because it appears that your definition is vaguely different than the communities. Btw, I couldn't help but notice that you never did say where all those evil pvp happenings actually happened. It was low sec wasn't it? You did disregard the little warning box didn't you?


Highsec space.
Pipa Porto
#148 - 2012-08-15 23:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Pip Mayo wrote:
Highsec space.


Then either you initiated the conflict by shooting first or stealing from the player that destroyed you, or destroying you cost them their ship.

That's how HS works; PvP is either consensual or it costs the attacker their ship (or a Wardec fee, but that's only kind of non-consensual).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2012-08-16 02:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dennis Gregs
I enjoy the PVE in EVE, and the fact that you're never safe makes it more enjoyable.

If you don't like the game please don't try to ruin it for the rest of us, total carebearness with zero consequences should never be allowed in this game.
Pip Mayo
Exploration and Laboratory Services
#150 - 2012-08-16 11:18:50 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Pip Mayo wrote:
Highsec space.


Then either you initiated the conflict by shooting first or stealing from the player that destroyed you, or destroying you cost them their ship.

That's how HS works; PvP is either consensual or it costs the attacker their ship (or a Wardec fee, but that's only kind of non-consensual).


Beg to differ. Being attacked is not limited to lowsec and below. I experienced it first hand. And it was far from consensual. That was why I began this thread.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#151 - 2012-08-16 11:21:34 UTC
Pip Mayo wrote:
Beg to differ. Being attacked is not limited to lowsec and below. I experienced it first hand. And it was far from consensual. That was why I began this thread.
…and if it wasn't consensual, then it cost the other guy something, because that's how highsec works: highsec is simply a part of space where aggression comes at a cost. Nothing more, nothing less (ok, maybe a bit less, since there are some equipment restrictions as well).

So you're not actually differing in any way from what he said.
Pip Mayo
Exploration and Laboratory Services
#152 - 2012-08-16 11:22:48 UTC
Dennis Gregs wrote:
I enjoy the PVE in EVE, and the fact that you're never safe makes it more enjoyable.

If you don't like the game please don't try to ruin it for the rest of us, total carebearness with zero consequences should never be allowed in this game.

Not ruining anything. Just discussing it. If anything, the aggressiveness of other players has ruined the game for me. No one is changing the game on you.
Pip Mayo
Exploration and Laboratory Services
#153 - 2012-08-16 11:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Pip Mayo
Tippia wrote:
Pip Mayo wrote:
Beg to differ. Being attacked is not limited to lowsec and below. I experienced it first hand. And it was far from consensual. That was why I began this thread.
…and if it wasn't consensual, then it cost the other guy something, because that's how highsec works: highsec is simply a part of space where aggression comes at a cost. Nothing more, nothing less (ok, maybe a bit less, since there are some equipment restrictions as well).

So you're not actually differing in any way from what he said.

The differ was I was not the aggressor. Whether or not they suffered any, I can't say. I was running away in my pod.
Pipa Porto
#154 - 2012-08-16 11:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Pip Mayo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Pip Mayo wrote:
Highsec space.


Then either you initiated the conflict by shooting first or stealing from the player that destroyed you, or destroying you cost them their ship.

That's how HS works; PvP is either consensual or it costs the attacker their ship (or a Wardec fee, but that's only kind of non-consensual).


Beg to differ. Being attacked is not limited to lowsec and below. I experienced it first hand. And it was far from consensual. That was why I began this thread.


In that case, it cost the attacker their ship. Because, unless you shot them first (after they stole something of yours) or you stole something from them, CONCORD came by after some delay and blew up their ship.

That's what the "or" was in there for.

With some details, I could explain to you exactly what happened.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pip Mayo
Exploration and Laboratory Services
#155 - 2012-08-16 11:36:09 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Pip Mayo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Pip Mayo wrote:
Highsec space.


Then either you initiated the conflict by shooting first or stealing from the player that destroyed you, or destroying you cost them their ship.

That's how HS works; PvP is either consensual or it costs the attacker their ship (or a Wardec fee, but that's only kind of non-consensual).


Beg to differ. Being attacked is not limited to lowsec and below. I experienced it first hand. And it was far from consensual. That was why I began this thread.


In that case, it cost the attacker their ship. Because, unless you shot them first (after they stole something of yours) or you stole something from them, CONCORD came by after some delay and blew up their ship.

That's what the "or" was in there for.

With some details, I could explain to you exactly what happened.

The consequences, whatever they were, still did not stop my being attacked and destroyed. Thus my whole point about EVE not having any PVE environments. I get no warning when I enter highsec space.

The one attack, and biggest hit financially, was at a gate. I understand that was a suicide run? The others were at cosmic points. Does security enter those? Isn't there an aggression timer?
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#156 - 2012-08-16 11:37:55 UTC
Identifying what Eve is, is not the same as defning what Eve should be in ones opinion. One is a fact, the other is not. Eve is a competative game. Nothing you do in this game is done without screwing someone else, wether you intend it or not. Even something as simple and seemingly innoscent as mining in high sec alone can be seen as an act of aggression against another corp already there trying to corner the market and get access to the ores your pulling without their permission.

All of this is by design, has existed since at least as long as I have played (over 6 years) and nothing in Eve's history has ever suggested that there was anything remotetly approaching "consentual" or "without consequence" behavior. Simply by logging in, you are screwing someone and if you play long enough, you will discover that people don't take kindly to it and in time you might find that you don't take kindly to other players seemingly "innoscent" activities.

Should there be PvE in Eve? Abso-*******-lutley. And there is, lots of it. From Missions, to Complexes, from Ratting, to exploration, from mining to manufacuring, from research to trading, from hauling to the countless services that go with it. In a sense, the large majority of what happens in the game is very strictly PvE... but and this is the important part, all of this so called "PvE" content happens in competition for ISK, really the primary driving force behind everything that takes place in the game. The earning of ISK is a endevour which ultimatly creates competative play at every level and without that "I'm going to do something about my competition" mechanic... aka ... pissed enough to shoot, the game would frankly be extremly boring.

Oh and burger, anyone who think PvP takes no skill is by definition a complete noob. Only the uninformed share this opinion.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#157 - 2012-08-16 11:47:13 UTC
A PVE thread in GD where the OP is able to discuss the issues in a reasonable manner and actually makes sensible arguments?

Now I've seen it all.

Pip,

I wish all carebears were like you, and not the whiney little twats we see every day! And although it does seem that EVE is not a game that you would enjoy, I kinda wish you would stay at least long enough to see if the things that we love about EVE would also bring pleasure to you. This really is a fantastic game, like no other.



.

Pipa Porto
#158 - 2012-08-16 11:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Pip Mayo wrote:
The consequences, whatever they were, still did not stop my being attacked and destroyed. Thus my whole point about EVE not having any PVE environments. I get no warning when I enter highsec space.

The one attack, and biggest hit financially, was at a gate. I understand that was a suicide run? The others were at cosmic points. Does security enter those? Isn't there an aggression timer?


EVE doesn't have any "Safe" areas. Nor is it meant to. SISI is the closest thing to a safe EVE (actually, it is safe, but its PCU numbers show how interesting that is).

If you got shot in HS, anywhere in HS, the attackers ships were destroyed by CONCORD, unless you did something to allow them to shoot you (stealing from one of their cans/wrecks, shooting them after they stole from yours, or shooting them because they're an outlaw). The timer for CONCORD varies by system security level, not by location.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2012-08-16 11:59:54 UTC
I wonder if it would be a good idea to implement a little popup when you click "Redeem PLEX" that says:

"Warning you are attempting to redeem a PLEX, however your account is less than 2 weeks old. There is a high statistical probability that you will lose this foolishly and feel very bad. Are you sure you wish to continue?"

Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.

Serena Serene
Heretic University
#160 - 2012-08-16 12:18:07 UTC
Pip Mayo wrote:
[...]

Everyone with whom I have had contact seems to feel this game is both PvE and PvP, yet they always stipulate you must protect yourself, you must not risk more than you are willing to lose, you should join a corp for protection, etc. Where in there lies a PvE game?

[...]


Of course it's both PvE and PvP. You can fight NPCs. PvE.
You are not isolated if you do this but can be affected by other players, among other things in a negative way. PvP

So it's both.
If you don't want the PvP aspect, you're asking for pure PvE, and I don't think anyone ever said you can have that in Eve.

I also disagree with the opinion that basically everything in Eve is PvP .. I agree that basically everything in Eve has a PvP element, though.